Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. But if one had to rank.. Latin would be at the top

Mandarin Chinese is not only more difficult for a native English speaker to master, but pragmatically it’s not even a fair fight. Latin will come in handy when you’re planning to storm the Vatican or if you ever gain access to a time machine … for literally everything else, bet on Mandarin Chinese.

Anytime we need Mandarin, we are going to use a native speaker who speaks English, not some white American who stumbled through four years of high school Mandarin.

It’s about pursuit of a rigorous program, and frankly, a student choosing Spanish or French (assuming Chinese is also available) could be viewed as taking the easiest way out for those four years of FL coursework.

If I was looking at otherwise identical students and one completed four years of Mandarin Chinese as their FL and the other completed four years of Spanish - I mean, if you understand the fact that the former is far more complex to master, you would have to tip the scale to that side, if think.

And then as to your last point, I guess it depends on how far a student pursues native fluency. I know of students who completed a Mandarin Chinese immersion program in the K-5 period, then returned for HS (with, as another poster pointed out, a class full of classmates surrounding them who use the language daily at home, as their primary family language) and some of them are very, very, very capable of reaching effective native fluency at 17 years old, with no indication in accent or otherwise.

Whether any of these languages is relevant at all depends on the intended major. I'm really doubtful that unless you actually intend to major in foreign languages, that a college will care a lot which language you took. The committee is going to regard four years of any language as "rigorous" for the purpose of assessing your curriculum's rigor.

You may very well be right for many schools, but I can tell you from very recent firsthand knowledge (as a parent accompanying an athletic recruit minor through the pre-read process) that at least one T20 school (and really, a T3 school) completely 180'd on the previously active recruitment process b/c the highest level of STEM courses available through his school (Calculus B/C and III, Linear Algebra, Physics C) were not on his transcript at the end of 11th grade. It didn't matter that 1/2 of those courses are on his plate for his senior year, or most importantly ... that he has a very specific non-STEM academic plan that's evident in his ECs and that obviously doesn't involve CS, engineering, or math). It didn't matter. Rigor, rigor, rigor.

This might be an anomaly, but it was literally our experience three months ago.

Your assumption that this transfers to language choice is wrong. Sorry, they don’t care if you took Spanish or French or Chinese or whatever.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. But if one had to rank.. Latin would be at the top

Mandarin Chinese is not only more difficult for a native English speaker to master, but pragmatically it’s not even a fair fight. Latin will come in handy when you’re planning to storm the Vatican or if you ever gain access to a time machine … for literally everything else, bet on Mandarin Chinese.

Anytime we need Mandarin, we are going to use a native speaker who speaks English, not some white American who stumbled through four years of high school Mandarin.

It’s about pursuit of a rigorous program, and frankly, a student choosing Spanish or French (assuming Chinese is also available) could be viewed as taking the easiest way out for those four years of FL coursework.

If I was looking at otherwise identical students and one completed four years of Mandarin Chinese as their FL and the other completed four years of Spanish - I mean, if you understand the fact that the former is far more complex to master, you would have to tip the scale to that side, if think.

And then as to your last point, I guess it depends on how far a student pursues native fluency. I know of students who completed a Mandarin Chinese immersion program in the K-5 period, then returned for HS (with, as another poster pointed out, a class full of classmates surrounding them who use the language daily at home, as their primary family language) and some of them are very, very, very capable of reaching effective native fluency at 17 years old, with no indication in accent or otherwise.

Your speculation is incorrect. Colleges do not rank languages on a scale of rigorous and non-rigorous. It doesn’t matter what language you take. DCUM-land is bat sh*t crazy sometimes.

On what expertise do you base the statement that they don't? Are you an AO?

They rank rigor in every domain area, they value AP coursework. These things are usually one of the Top 3 - 4 areas focused on for admissions. But they don't care if one kid was on auto-pilot for four years with only ¿Dónde está el baño? to show for it, while another kid has spent those four years learning to read, write, and speak in the most commonly used primary language in the world, which happens to be far more complex and uses a different alphabet and complex tones? That doesn't seem logical, or sensible, for that matter. Why wouldn't they consider that, even if as part of the puzzle?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. But if one had to rank.. Latin would be at the top

Mandarin Chinese is not only more difficult for a native English speaker to master, but pragmatically it’s not even a fair fight. Latin will come in handy when you’re planning to storm the Vatican or if you ever gain access to a time machine … for literally everything else, bet on Mandarin Chinese.

Anytime we need Mandarin, we are going to use a native speaker who speaks English, not some white American who stumbled through four years of high school Mandarin.

It’s about pursuit of a rigorous program, and frankly, a student choosing Spanish or French (assuming Chinese is also available) could be viewed as taking the easiest way out for those four years of FL coursework.

If I was looking at otherwise identical students and one completed four years of Mandarin Chinese as their FL and the other completed four years of Spanish - I mean, if you understand the fact that the former is far more complex to master, you would have to tip the scale to that side, if think.

And then as to your last point, I guess it depends on how far a student pursues native fluency. I know of students who completed a Mandarin Chinese immersion program in the K-5 period, then returned for HS (with, as another poster pointed out, a class full of classmates surrounding them who use the language daily at home, as their primary family language) and some of them are very, very, very capable of reaching effective native fluency at 17 years old, with no indication in accent or otherwise.

Whether any of these languages is relevant at all depends on the intended major. I'm really doubtful that unless you actually intend to major in foreign languages, that a college will care a lot which language you took. The committee is going to regard four years of any language as "rigorous" for the purpose of assessing your curriculum's rigor.

You may very well be right for many schools, but I can tell you from very recent firsthand knowledge (as a parent accompanying an athletic recruit minor through the pre-read process) that at least one T20 school (and really, a T3 school) completely 180'd on the previously active recruitment process b/c the highest level of STEM courses available through his school (Calculus B/C and III, Linear Algebra, Physics C) were not on his transcript at the end of 11th grade. It didn't matter that 1/2 of those courses are on his plate for his senior year, or most importantly ... that he has a very specific non-STEM academic plan that's evident in his ECs and that obviously doesn't involve CS, engineering, or math). It didn't matter. Rigor, rigor, rigor.

This might be an anomaly, but it was literally our experience three months ago.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. But if one had to rank.. Latin would be at the top

Mandarin Chinese is not only more difficult for a native English speaker to master, but pragmatically it’s not even a fair fight. Latin will come in handy when you’re planning to storm the Vatican or if you ever gain access to a time machine … for literally everything else, bet on Mandarin Chinese.

Anytime we need Mandarin, we are going to use a native speaker who speaks English, not some white American who stumbled through four years of high school Mandarin.

It’s about pursuit of a rigorous program, and frankly, a student choosing Spanish or French (assuming Chinese is also available) could be viewed as taking the easiest way out for those four years of FL coursework.

If I was looking at otherwise identical students and one completed four years of Mandarin Chinese as their FL and the other completed four years of Spanish - I mean, if you understand the fact that the former is far more complex to master, you would have to tip the scale to that side, if think.

And then as to your last point, I guess it depends on how far a student pursues native fluency. I know of students who completed a Mandarin Chinese immersion program in the K-5 period, then returned for HS (with, as another poster pointed out, a class full of classmates surrounding them who use the language daily at home, as their primary family language) and some of them are very, very, very capable of reaching effective native fluency at 17 years old, with no indication in accent or otherwise.

Your speculation is incorrect. Colleges do not rank languages on a scale of rigorous and non-rigorous. It doesn’t matter what language you take. DCUM-land is bat sh*t crazy sometimes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hindi, Chinese or Arabic might help if offered depending on the type of engineering

No, Hindi would not be worth it. Most of the Indian engineers you see here or even in India are from parts of India where Hindi is not the native language. I am sure their English is better than their Hindi. It would be a waste of time if that is your purpose.

Hindi is a critical language. There is a shortage US citizen speakers who can get a high security clearance. So, it really depends on your career goals.

how or why is Hindi relevant? do government contractors require it to work with overseas teams based in India?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. But if one had to rank.. Latin would be at the top

Mandarin Chinese is not only more difficult for a native English speaker to master, but pragmatically it’s not even a fair fight. Latin will come in handy when you’re planning to storm the Vatican or if you ever gain access to a time machine … for literally everything else, bet on Mandarin Chinese.

Anytime we need Mandarin, we are going to use a native speaker who speaks English, not some white American who stumbled through four years of high school Mandarin.

It’s about pursuit of a rigorous program, and frankly, a student choosing Spanish or French (assuming Chinese is also available) could be viewed as taking the easiest way out for those four years of FL coursework.

If I was looking at otherwise identical students and one completed four years of Mandarin Chinese as their FL and the other completed four years of Spanish - I mean, if you understand the fact that the former is far more complex to master, you would have to tip the scale to that side, if think.

And then as to your last point, I guess it depends on how far a student pursues native fluency. I know of students who completed a Mandarin Chinese immersion program in the K-5 period, then returned for HS (with, as another poster pointed out, a class full of classmates surrounding them who use the language daily at home, as their primary family language) and some of them are very, very, very capable of reaching effective native fluency at 17 years old, with no indication in accent or otherwise.

Whether any of these languages is relevant at all depends on the intended major. I'm really doubtful that unless you actually intend to major in foreign languages, that a college will care a lot which language you took. The committee is going to regard four years of any language as "rigorous" for the purpose of assessing your curriculum's rigor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. But if one had to rank.. Latin would be at the top

Mandarin Chinese is not only more difficult for a native English speaker to master, but pragmatically it’s not even a fair fight. Latin will come in handy when you’re planning to storm the Vatican or if you ever gain access to a time machine … for literally everything else, bet on Mandarin Chinese.

Anytime we need Mandarin, we are going to use a native speaker who speaks English, not some white American who stumbled through four years of high school Mandarin.

It’s about pursuit of a rigorous program, and frankly, a student choosing Spanish or French (assuming Chinese is also available) could be viewed as taking the easiest way out for those four years of FL coursework.

If I was looking at otherwise identical students and one completed four years of Mandarin Chinese as their FL and the other completed four years of Spanish - I mean, if you understand the fact that the former is far more complex to master, you would have to tip the scale to that side, if think.

And then as to your last point, I guess it depends on how far a student pursues native fluency. I know of students who completed a Mandarin Chinese immersion program in the K-5 period, then returned for HS (with, as another poster pointed out, a class full of classmates surrounding them who use the language daily at home, as their primary family language) and some of them are very, very, very capable of reaching effective native fluency at 17 years old, with no indication in accent or otherwise.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hindi, Chinese or Arabic might help if offered depending on the type of engineering

No, Hindi would not be worth it. Most of the Indian engineers you see here or even in India are from parts of India where Hindi is not the native language. I am sure their English is better than their Hindi. It would be a waste of time if that is your purpose.

Hindi is a critical language. There is a shortage US citizen speakers who can get a high security clearance. So, it really depends on your career goals.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. But if one had to rank.. Latin would be at the top

Mandarin Chinese is not only more difficult for a native English speaker to master, but pragmatically it’s not even a fair fight. Latin will come in handy when you’re planning to storm the Vatican or if you ever gain access to a time machine … for literally everything else, bet on Mandarin Chinese.

Anytime we need Mandarin, we are going to use a native speaker who speaks English, not some white American who stumbled through four years of high school Mandarin.

It’s about pursuit of a rigorous program, and frankly, a student choosing Spanish or French (assuming Chinese is also available) could be viewed as taking the easiest way out for those four years of FL coursework.

If I was looking at otherwise identical students and one completed four years of Mandarin Chinese as their FL and the other completed four years of Spanish - I mean, if you understand the fact that the former is far more complex to master, you would have to tip the scale to that side, if think.

And then as to your last point, I guess it depends on how far a student pursues native fluency. I know of students who completed a Mandarin Chinese immersion program in the K-5 period, then returned for HS (with, as another poster pointed out, a class full of classmates surrounding them who use the language daily at home, as their primary family language) and some of them are very, very, very capable of reaching effective native fluency at 17 years old, with no indication in accent or otherwise.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. But if one had to rank.. Latin would be at the top

Mandarin Chinese is not only more difficult for a native English speaker to master, but pragmatically it’s not even a fair fight. Latin will come in handy when you’re planning to storm the Vatican or if you ever gain access to a time machine … for literally everything else, bet on Mandarin Chinese.

Anytime we need Mandarin, we are going to use a native speaker who speaks English, not some white American who stumbled through four years of high school Mandarin.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hindi, Chinese or Arabic might help if offered depending on the type of engineering

No, Hindi would not be worth it. Most of the Indian engineers you see here or even in India are from parts of India where Hindi is not the native language. I am sure their English is better than their Hindi. It would be a waste of time if that is your purpose.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My older kids took Russian and I absolutely think it helped them with college admissions. It's a very difficult language and always considered one of the "critical" languages for national security. That said, my youngest took French through AP level and that didn't seem to hurt her acceptances. I think they mainly want to see commitment to one language through at least the 4th yr.

Curious about the 4 years. DC took freshman Spanish 1 in 8th grade and is in Spanish 4 honors. At this point DC would prefer to take a different AP course next year (psychology or economics).

The guidance counselor thinks going through Spanish 4 qualifies as 4 years, but the guidance department is not always on top of things…

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My older kids took Russian and I absolutely think it helped them with college admissions. It's a very difficult language and always considered one of the "critical" languages for national security. That said, my youngest took French through AP level and that didn't seem to hurt her acceptances. I think they mainly want to see commitment to one language through at least the 4th yr.

Curious about the 4 years. DC took freshman Spanish 1 in 8th grade and is in Spanish 4 honors. At this point DC would prefer to take a different AP course next year (psychology or economics).

The guidance counselor thinks going through Spanish 4 qualifies as 4 years, but the guidance department is not always on top of things…

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely should matter. Chinese, Japanese, Arabic, and Korean, are substantially more challenging to native English speakers than languages like Spanish, French, etc.

That said, it probably isn’t taken into consideration much, if at all.

Most of the kids in Chinese and Japanese at our school speak this at home so for a non-native it's extra challenging.