Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse and I also come from extreme dysfunction. I focus on appreciating how fortunate I am to have a healthy marriage and good kids. I have friends and appreciate them.

What do you mean by support system if you say your friends are not what you consider a support system?

Friends are a support until they're not. Until their own family takes priority. Until they're too busy, etc. etc.

Also, many people who don't come from dysfunction, or who are not intimately familiar with your individual family dysfunction, simply don't understand those experiences of the people who do.

+1
This is so true. People who have had no discomfort in their life are in la-la land, and not able to be good friends, because they tend to think that they have it harder than anyone else (and also have zero idea how good they have it!) - consequently, are not able to be there for other people, or even lend an understanding ear. They tend to have a repulsive "what do you have to complain about" attitude.

I would not go this far, but I do think people tend to assume that most other people's families are similar to their own. I think this leads to a lot of inability to understand or validate what others are going through.

What I think people often don't understand is that you have basically no control over other members of your family. You can control yourself and work on yourself. You can't make anyone else in your family be a certain way or respond to you in a certain way or have certain communications skills or want to have a certain relationship. For instance, my dad simply does not want a relationship with me. It doesn't matter how much I might work on that relationship -- he has zero interest in working on it, so it will never be anything meaningful or rewarding for me. It will always just be a source of abandonment.

I can go to therapy and work on how I respond to that abandonment, I can be kind to myself, find other forms of support, etc. But I can't erase that. I'll always be a person whose father abandoned her. It informs almost everything about me for better or worse. This is so different than people who have dysfunctional family relationships but everyone is trying. No one is perfect and if people make an effort, sometimes you can overcome these problems. But when your family members have not interest, awareness, or capacity for getting better, there is truly nothing you can do except deal with the fall out in your own life and try to put it behind you.

Agree BUT people are human and can't always counsel their feelings out and away from their soul - it's not like they can get an exorcism and never feel hurt again. People are human beings, and have feelings, and need to talk about their issues. I don't bring my problems to my friends generally, but I do want to know that they are listening and that they are outside of their own head on occasion and are capable of caring. Sometimes the holidays suck, and sometimes you just want to make a comment about it- I am not talking about dwelling on it.

IRL, we are not Stepford Wives or devoid emotion, or 1950's housewives expected to answer the door with a smile and hoop skirt - it is not feasible, realistic, probable or possible.

I expect reciprocity in a friendship, and not a one way conversation or gloss over if something is bothering us in our lives.

PP here and yes to all of this.

I wound up moving on from a bunch of friendships in my 30s because of this issue. I didn't want to discuss my family issues at length with my friends, and I didn't want therapy from them. But I had some friends who just seemed incapable of remembering or caring that some of my family issues are major. For instance, two close family members have tried to kill themselves. That's not something I like talking about or will bring up almost ever, but it was frustrating when I confided to a couple close friends about it and they just promptly forgot. I remember I was telling one of them about deciding not to go home for a holiday because I couldn't deal with the heaviness that year and she kind of rolled her eyes at me and said "oh don't be dramatic, it's just family, it's not that bad." I think she just couldn't really see past her own experience, which is a more "normal" family that has it's issues but at the end of the day are manageable, and the idea that my family has some deeper trauma that weighs me down just didn't stick in her head. I didn't want to get into a whole thing about that trauma that day, I just wanted a friend who'd validate what I was feeling and support me in the choice I'd made for myself, understanding some of the context of that decision.

I have a therapist and that's who I go to for an in depth discussion about my family dysfunction. But I've learned to let go of friends who aren't even willing to contemplate the idea that my family background might be a burden to me in way that theirs is not to them, who will lecture me about how to deal with my family or how to feel about certain family developments or events based on their own experiences and not really taking into account how mine have been different.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse and I also come from extreme dysfunction. I focus on appreciating how fortunate I am to have a healthy marriage and good kids. I have friends and appreciate them.

What do you mean by support system if you say your friends are not what you consider a support system?

Friends are a support until they're not. Until their own family takes priority. Until they're too busy, etc. etc.

Also, many people who don't come from dysfunction, or who are not intimately familiar with your individual family dysfunction, simply don't understand those experiences of the people who do.

+1
This is so true. People who have had no discomfort in their life are in la-la land, and not able to be good friends, because they tend to think that they have it harder than anyone else (and also have zero idea how good they have it!) - consequently, are not able to be there for other people, or even lend an understanding ear. They tend to have a repulsive "what do you have to complain about" attitude.

I would not go this far, but I do think people tend to assume that most other people's families are similar to their own. I think this leads to a lot of inability to understand or validate what others are going through.

What I think people often don't understand is that you have basically no control over other members of your family. You can control yourself and work on yourself. You can't make anyone else in your family be a certain way or respond to you in a certain way or have certain communications skills or want to have a certain relationship. For instance, my dad simply does not want a relationship with me. It doesn't matter how much I might work on that relationship -- he has zero interest in working on it, so it will never be anything meaningful or rewarding for me. It will always just be a source of abandonment.

I can go to therapy and work on how I respond to that abandonment, I can be kind to myself, find other forms of support, etc. But I can't erase that. I'll always be a person whose father abandoned her. It informs almost everything about me for better or worse. This is so different than people who have dysfunctional family relationships but everyone is trying. No one is perfect and if people make an effort, sometimes you can overcome these problems. But when your family members have not interest, awareness, or capacity for getting better, there is truly nothing you can do except deal with the fall out in your own life and try to put it behind you.

Agree BUT people are human and can't always counsel their feelings out and away from their soul - it's not like they can get an exorcism and never feel hurt again. People are human beings, and have feelings, and need to talk about their issues. I don't bring my problems to my friends generally, but I do want to know that they are listening and that they are outside of their own head on occasion and are capable of caring. Sometimes the holidays suck, and sometimes you just want to make a comment about it- I am not talking about dwelling on it.

IRL, we are not Stepford Wives or devoid emotion, or 1950's housewives expected to answer the door with a smile and hoop skirt - it is not feasible, realistic, probable or possible.

I expect reciprocity in a friendship, and not a one way conversation or gloss over if something is bothering us in our lives.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse and I also come from extreme dysfunction. I focus on appreciating how fortunate I am to have a healthy marriage and good kids. I have friends and appreciate them.

What do you mean by support system if you say your friends are not what you consider a support system?

Friends are a support until they're not. Until their own family takes priority. Until they're too busy, etc. etc.

Also, many people who don't come from dysfunction, or who are not intimately familiar with your individual family dysfunction, simply don't understand those experiences of the people who do.

+1
This is so true. People who have had no discomfort in their life are in la-la land, and not able to be good friends, because they tend to think that they have it harder than anyone else (and also have zero idea how good they have it!) - consequently, are not able to be there for other people, or even lend an understanding ear. They tend to have a repulsive "what do you have to complain about" attitude.

I would not go this far, but I do think people tend to assume that most other people's families are similar to their own. I think this leads to a lot of inability to understand or validate what others are going through.

What I think people often don't understand is that you have basically no control over other members of your family. You can control yourself and work on yourself. You can't make anyone else in your family be a certain way or respond to you in a certain way or have certain communications skills or want to have a certain relationship. For instance, my dad simply does not want a relationship with me. It doesn't matter how much I might work on that relationship -- he has zero interest in working on it, so it will never be anything meaningful or rewarding for me. It will always just be a source of abandonment.

I can go to therapy and work on how I respond to that abandonment, I can be kind to myself, find other forms of support, etc. But I can't erase that. I'll always be a person whose father abandoned her. It informs almost everything about me for better or worse. This is so different than people who have dysfunctional family relationships but everyone is trying. No one is perfect and if people make an effort, sometimes you can overcome these problems. But when your family members have not interest, awareness, or capacity for getting better, there is truly nothing you can do except deal with the fall out in your own life and try to put it behind you.

I agree with all of the above, especially the bolded. I have well-meaning friends who assume that because my family is local, they must be as supportive and helpful as their own local families, even after I’ve repeatedly told them otherwise. Eventually, I give up and don’t bother telling them much of anything emotionally meaningful, because I know they won’t get it.

And you’re so, so right about not having control over your family members - and, really, no control over anyone but yourself. Even that has limits, frankly. IME, a lot of people can’t tolerate the reality of that lack of control, so it becomes easier to push away those of us with serious family problems (abandonment, estrangement, etc.) and pretend that our problems are either of our own making or simply don’t exist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse and I also come from extreme dysfunction. I focus on appreciating how fortunate I am to have a healthy marriage and good kids. I have friends and appreciate them.

What do you mean by support system if you say your friends are not what you consider a support system?

Friends are a support until they're not. Until their own family takes priority. Until they're too busy, etc. etc.

Also, many people who don't come from dysfunction, or who are not intimately familiar with your individual family dysfunction, simply don't understand those experiences of the people who do.

+1
This is so true. People who have had no discomfort in their life are in la-la land, and not able to be good friends, because they tend to think that they have it harder than anyone else (and also have zero idea how good they have it!) - consequently, are not able to be there for other people, or even lend an understanding ear. They tend to have a repulsive "what do you have to complain about" attitude.

I would not go this far, but I do think people tend to assume that most other people's families are similar to their own. I think this leads to a lot of inability to understand or validate what others are going through.

What I think people often don't understand is that you have basically no control over other members of your family. You can control yourself and work on yourself. You can't make anyone else in your family be a certain way or respond to you in a certain way or have certain communications skills or want to have a certain relationship. For instance, my dad simply does not want a relationship with me. It doesn't matter how much I might work on that relationship -- he has zero interest in working on it, so it will never be anything meaningful or rewarding for me. It will always just be a source of abandonment.

I can go to therapy and work on how I respond to that abandonment, I can be kind to myself, find other forms of support, etc. But I can't erase that. I'll always be a person whose father abandoned her. It informs almost everything about me for better or worse. This is so different than people who have dysfunctional family relationships but everyone is trying. No one is perfect and if people make an effort, sometimes you can overcome these problems. But when your family members have not interest, awareness, or capacity for getting better, there is truly nothing you can do except deal with the fall out in your own life and try to put it behind you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse and I also come from extreme dysfunction. I focus on appreciating how fortunate I am to have a healthy marriage and good kids. I have friends and appreciate them.

What do you mean by support system if you say your friends are not what you consider a support system?

Friends are a support until they're not. Until their own family takes priority. Until they're too busy, etc. etc.

Also, many people who don't come from dysfunction, or who are not intimately familiar with your individual family dysfunction, simply don't understand those experiences of the people who do.

+1
This is so true. People who have had no discomfort in their life are in la-la land, and not able to be good friends, because they tend to think that they have it harder than anyone else (and also have zero idea how good they have it!) - consequently, are not able to be there for other people, or even lend an understanding ear. They tend to have a repulsive "what do you have to complain about" attitude.

Ugh both husband and I are basically orphans with no family so I understand this feeling. I used to be so thankful for our marriage and the love and stability we had with our kids. He’s now in the midst of a midlife crisis and it’s basically just me and the kids. It’s very lonely at times. I’ve asked God to bring more loving people into our lives.

I am estranged from my dad and almost every member of his extended family. I am effectively estranged from everyone on my mom’s, and my mom herself is a piece of work. It’s always been terribly lonely. I pour my heart into my friendships and my (nuclear) family - my husband and kids. But the loneliness is always there and I think always will be there.

Anonymous wrote:My spouse and I also come from extreme dysfunction. I focus on appreciating how fortunate I am to have a healthy marriage and good kids. I have friends and appreciate them.

What do you mean by support system if you say your friends are not what you consider a support system?

Friends are a support until they're not. Until their own family takes priority. Until they're too busy, etc. etc.

Also, many people who don't come from dysfunction, or who are not intimately familiar with your individual family dysfunction, simply don't understand those experiences of the people who do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My family is very messed up and not a source of love, support, or belonging for me. I'm not estranged, but they are not a source of support or community and never will be.

Sadly my spouse's family is similar. His extended family is better, and we tend to spend holidays with his family because when his cousins and aunts are around, it can feel like proper family. But his parents and siblings are, like mine, very dysfunctional and not loving or emotionally supportive.

What do other people who are in this situation do for community and support system? We have friends but it's not the same. I know church is the answer for many. We are not religious but I've looked hard into this anyway because I so need some kind of support system. But the only church that made sense given our lack of religion was UU, and the UU church where we live was not a good fit.

What else can we do? Hitting middle age and have a child. The loneliness and isolation is crushing. I think it's started to seriously impact my physical health.

Most people at most churches/temples/whatever aren't religious. Religion is a metaphor. Just go, be respectful, and meet people.

Well this isn’t true at all, although *some* people at these places aren’t religious so OP won’t have a problem

OP I feel for you. My family is the same way. I was raising functional loving kids but my exDH was also cold and unsupportive. I had lots and lots of friends! Then we moved during the pandemic and I lost my whole network, exDH and I separated. I am rebuilding. I don't have a solution other than therapy, choosing relationships based on kindness, and being highly independent.

Two things

I’ve learned to accept the situation for what it is. I have distantly positive relationships with a large number of people who know who I am based on small scale philanthropy. This helps me feel less alone in the world even if it’s just a passing thought.

I’ve also learned to be my own support system or pay for the support that I need. I don’t ask for or expect reciprocity from anyone outside of my husband unless I am paying for it.

Oh, and a third. I’ve learned to enjoy my own company. Being alone can be a wonderful thing. This just takes intentionality and practice.

Anonymous wrote:My family is very messed up and not a source of love, support, or belonging for me. I'm not estranged, but they are not a source of support or community and never will be.

Sadly my spouse's family is similar. His extended family is better, and we tend to spend holidays with his family because when his cousins and aunts are around, it can feel like proper family. But his parents and siblings are, like mine, very dysfunctional and not loving or emotionally supportive.

What do other people who are in this situation do for community and support system? We have friends but it's not the same. I know church is the answer for many. We are not religious but I've looked hard into this anyway because I so need some kind of support system. But the only church that made sense given our lack of religion was UU, and the UU church where we live was not a good fit.

What else can we do? Hitting middle age and have a child. The loneliness and isolation is crushing. I think it's started to seriously impact my physical health.

Most people at most churches/temples/whatever aren't religious. Religion is a metaphor. Just go, be respectful, and meet people.

You have to be the cheerleaders. Reach out and care for your neighbors, and hopefully one or a few will stick.

Anonymous wrote:What do other people who are in this situation do for community and support system? We have friends but it's not the same. I know church is the answer for many. We are not religious but I've looked hard into this anyway because I so need some kind of support system. But the only church that made sense given our lack of religion was UU, and the UU church where we live was not a good fit.

There's a wide range of UU churches. If there's another one near you, try it. Even if it's farther away.

Anonymous wrote:I hear you, OP. I'm divorced. My parents are both dead and my only sibling is a vicious drama queen.

OP, your kids might be small now, but they'll be there for you when they're adults, although be careful not to be too needy. I have two great kids, which is something. They're out of the house, but we still text/talk a few times a week and we try to visit with each other weekly. They both have remote jobs but recently said they wanted to return to this area after college/grad school "to be around family."

Also, reach out to your extended family, OP. I have a cousin whose immediate family has suffered multiple deaths in the past give years, and she seems to be reaching out to me as well. There might be an extended family member in your life who wants to visit/travel with you/talk.

DP here. I agree. My kids formed their own opinions about DH's side. DH wanted to appease them by spending time with them, and having the kids get to know them, of course. Unfortunately, favoritism was something our kids asked about (without calling it that) when they were young, as they asked to do outdoor activities (one in particular) with their grandparent, and the grandparent literally responded an emphatic (and rather mean) "NO!" - DC could not join them. Who does that??? Our DC responded, but grandparent does that activity with other grandkid/s, why can't we participate? (It would have been very easy for an adult to accommodate, without issue).

Grandparent instead offered another activity that was/is indoor, took little effort, is generally not done in one sitting, was not something our kids were then interested in (at all), and would not provide nearly the experience that our kid/s were (and still very much are!) interested in. The activity grandparent declined is actually something our DC (and grandparent) does every week, in season, and delights in doing so. The grandchild that grandparent insisted on going with - does not do the activity, probably ever.

In fact, grandparent does the activity each week and never asked DC, until recently DC did ask grandparent, and they hemmed and hawed but agreed. WOW. Grandparent of the year!?

And so it goes. Children make their own decisions. Wait it out, and be there for them. Show them you care, and you are deserving of your title.