Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, as a POC woman, none of the typical advice on this board will work for you, aside from my post above about the exposure to executive leadership orgs and programs.

The game is different for POC women. The only other actionable useful advice I see in this thread is the job-hopping every 2-3 years to more senior roles. The exposure to executive leaders at other companies will help you with that.

The sad truth is that things like making yourself invaluable, being super competent, taking credit, being visible, showing interest (ha!), getting mentors, being the go-to for your boss, all of that gets ignored and taken for granted when you’re a POC woman. I’ve seen it happen far too often. None of that gets you promoted. Maybe a pat on the back, if that, but not internal promotions.

Really? In my industry (legal) and the industries I serve (various legal, finance and accounting departments at our clients'), women POC who show only the slightest modicum of competence are super fast tracked. Most mid or larger companies are extremely committed to promoting POC, and sometimes to a detriment because they are promoting POC before they're ready, which leads to some failures. But if you're interested in fast tracking, or jumping to another job with a significant pay and title bump, being a moderately competent POC in mid and large size companies is a huge asset these days.

This is simply not true. That may be your perception but it is not the reality.

Also please research the Glass Cliff, THAT is a reality and unfortunate outcome of alot of the POC women who do make it to the higher rungs of leadership in large companies.

I daresay you're just looking for excuses for your own failures.

Advancement is always about playing your cards correctly. Smart black women do this very well. But you also have to deliver. Not everyone can.

Plenty of hard working people are good at managing but not delivering. The higher up you go, it's delivering that becomes more important, not just nicely managing.

I am about as high as you can get as a manager without leaping into the delivery category because that's a whole different level of expectations and pressure. I don't have to worry about bringing in work, for example, or keeping clients happy, or figuring out how to cut costs 20% or make the group grow 15% year to year. It does mean I'll never make SVP or MD but that's ok with me. Like my salary and comfort level at work. It's still busy enough!

Don’t get married. If you want to have kids, do it as a single parent. Never tell the father, ever. If you can, have you mom move in with you an provide childcare. If you can’t do that, get an amazing nanny, and pay her amazingly well to keep her.

Get a job at a growing company or growing division, or become the disciples of someone nearing retirement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, as a POC woman, none of the typical advice on this board will work for you, aside from my post above about the exposure to executive leadership orgs and programs.

The game is different for POC women. The only other actionable useful advice I see in this thread is the job-hopping every 2-3 years to more senior roles. The exposure to executive leaders at other companies will help you with that.

The sad truth is that things like making yourself invaluable, being super competent, taking credit, being visible, showing interest (ha!), getting mentors, being the go-to for your boss, all of that gets ignored and taken for granted when you’re a POC woman. I’ve seen it happen far too often. None of that gets you promoted. Maybe a pat on the back, if that, but not internal promotions.

Really? In my industry (legal) and the industries I serve (various legal, finance and accounting departments at our clients'), women POC who show only the slightest modicum of competence are super fast tracked. Most mid or larger companies are extremely committed to promoting POC, and sometimes to a detriment because they are promoting POC before they're ready, which leads to some failures. But if you're interested in fast tracking, or jumping to another job with a significant pay and title bump, being a moderately competent POC in mid and large size companies is a huge asset these days.

This is simply not true. That may be your perception but it is not the reality.

Also please research the Glass Cliff, THAT is a reality and unfortunate outcome of alot of the POC women who do make it to the higher rungs of leadership in large companies.

NP. At my org it's absolutely true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fastest way is to move jobs every 2-3 years and make sure you get title and comp increases at each one.

+1 (speaking as a woman)

Maybe not every 2-3 years, but always be looking and be ready to go if a better opportunity comes around.

Also, take every single opportunity for visibility (talking at conferences, seek out leadership roles in professional organizations). This signals that you aren’t there to grind it out and you want more.

Keep good relationships with bosses at prior jobs - keeps your network more robust.

Sadly, being really really good at your job isn’t necessary. In fact, if you are hyper competent then it can threaten your superiors, who will then take it out on you. And no point in trying to be irreplaceable; as management sees it, everyone can be replaced.

+1 million

Everything else on this thread is situational, not a constant formula. I am in a place now where they want me to move at half the pace of my previous job which waned me to move 2x the pace.

Invest in yourself, build a perosnal brand, get an exec coach and move every 2 years.

Learnt all this too late in life.

Can you get an exec coach if you are not an exec? I am a Program Manager.

Yes you can, and get your work to pay for it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t have kids.

-Mom of 3 who is undoubtedly not fast tracked

It really depends on how much you want to be promoted. I moved every 3-4 years including after both of my three children and I make about $300K. Your priorities may change when you have children and you may not want more responsibility but if you’re hell bent on getting to the top kids won’t change that - just look at the many successful female partners at Goldman Sachs, top law firms, etc. Many of these women have 2-3 kids. Putting your life on hold to climb the career ladder doesn’t guarantee success and as many have said, everyone is replaceable. Don’t put off big life choices with the hope of getting promoted.

Both of my 3 children? So one set of twins. As tough as twins are that helped your career by consolidating

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, as a POC woman, none of the typical advice on this board will work for you, aside from my post above about the exposure to executive leadership orgs and programs.

The game is different for POC women. The only other actionable useful advice I see in this thread is the job-hopping every 2-3 years to more senior roles. The exposure to executive leaders at other companies will help you with that.

The sad truth is that things like making yourself invaluable, being super competent, taking credit, being visible, showing interest (ha!), getting mentors, being the go-to for your boss, all of that gets ignored and taken for granted when you’re a POC woman. I’ve seen it happen far too often. None of that gets you promoted. Maybe a pat on the back, if that, but not internal promotions.

Really? In my industry (legal) and the industries I serve (various legal, finance and accounting departments at our clients'), women POC who show only the slightest modicum of competence are super fast tracked. Most mid or larger companies are extremely committed to promoting POC, and sometimes to a detriment because they are promoting POC before they're ready, which leads to some failures. But if you're interested in fast tracking, or jumping to another job with a significant pay and title bump, being a moderately competent POC in mid and large size companies is a huge asset these days.

This is simply not true. That may be your perception but it is not the reality.

Also please research the Glass Cliff, THAT is a reality and unfortunate outcome of alot of the POC women who do make it to the higher rungs of leadership in large companies.

Anonymous wrote:Be likable and agreeable, aggressive women aren’t easy to promote even if they are the most competent and highest potential. Women who are tough to work with don’t get promoted as easily as men with exactly the same demeanor.

Sad but absolutely true.

Anonymous wrote:Don’t have kids.

-Mom of 3 who is undoubtedly not fast tracked

It really depends on how much you want to be promoted. I moved every 3-4 years including after both of my three children and I make about $300K. Your priorities may change when you have children and you may not want more responsibility but if you’re hell bent on getting to the top kids won’t change that - just look at the many successful female partners at Goldman Sachs, top law firms, etc. Many of these women have 2-3 kids. Putting your life on hold to climb the career ladder doesn’t guarantee success and as many have said, everyone is replaceable. Don’t put off big life choices with the hope of getting promoted.

Be likable and agreeable, aggressive women aren’t easy to promote even if they are the most competent and highest potential. Women who are tough to work with don’t get promoted as easily as men with exactly the same demeanor.

Have kids after you retire. My wife started in an Investment Bank at 21 and left at 36 a few months after returning maternity leave with first. We had three kids and married when she was 32. She could have kept going at work but it was 12 hours a day and wanted to actually see her kids grow up.

Anonymous wrote:These people are delusional. You have to be friendly with leadership in a way that doesn’t show how obvious you are. Easier when you are into same things like golf or similar college.

This.

Anonymous wrote:OP, as a POC woman, none of the typical advice on this board will work for you, aside from my post above about the exposure to executive leadership orgs and programs.

The game is different for POC women. The only other actionable useful advice I see in this thread is the job-hopping every 2-3 years to more senior roles. The exposure to executive leaders at other companies will help you with that.

The sad truth is that things like making yourself invaluable, being super competent, taking credit, being visible, showing interest (ha!), getting mentors, being the go-to for your boss, all of that gets ignored and taken for granted when you’re a POC woman. I’ve seen it happen far too often. None of that gets you promoted. Maybe a pat on the back, if that, but not internal promotions.

Really? In my industry (legal) and the industries I serve (various legal, finance and accounting departments at our clients'), women POC who show only the slightest modicum of competence are super fast tracked. Most mid or larger companies are extremely committed to promoting POC, and sometimes to a detriment because they are promoting POC before they're ready, which leads to some failures. But if you're interested in fast tracking, or jumping to another job with a significant pay and title bump, being a moderately competent POC in mid and large size companies is a huge asset these days.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fastest way is to move jobs every 2-3 years and make sure you get title and comp increases at each one.

+1 (speaking as a woman)

Maybe not every 2-3 years, but always be looking and be ready to go if a better opportunity comes around.

Also, take every single opportunity for visibility (talking at conferences, seek out leadership roles in professional organizations). This signals that you aren’t there to grind it out and you want more.

Keep good relationships with bosses at prior jobs - keeps your network more robust.

Sadly, being really really good at your job isn’t necessary. In fact, if you are hyper competent then it can threaten your superiors, who will then take it out on you. And no point in trying to be irreplaceable; as management sees it, everyone can be replaced.

+1 million

Everything else on this thread is situational, not a constant formula. I am in a place now where they want me to move at half the pace of my previous job which waned me to move 2x the pace.

Invest in yourself, build a perosnal brand, get an exec coach and move every 2 years.

Learnt all this too late in life.

Can you get an exec coach if you are not an exec? I am a Program Manager.

I’m a white woman in a stem field that is 95%+ men. So l don’t have the inside scoop on how to succeed as a POC, but l do as a super minority.

Don’t have kids and work your butt off, but in roles that you get a lot of exposure to people across the organization - not just your team.

If you do have kids and ever want to see them, then it will be slower. Try to hitch your star to a rising star woman one level above you and get promoted when she moves up rapidly - this worked for me, she keeps dragging me up with her. I’m not willing to be on the road 3 weeks / month like she is, but l have benefited 2 times now when she moved up.