It’s one of the few fields where what you can do is more important than the credentials you have. In my experience for CS and related fields there are two things you need: brains, and a certain analytical mindset. If you have those things and a willingness to learn you can be very successful despite not having a degree in the field. It’s an amazingly wide and deep field that’s changing all the time, so it’s basically impossible to learn everything you need to know in school. I contrast this with most engineering/law fields etc, where the fundamentals are nailed down and everyone knows what needs to be learned. The basics of civil engineering haven’t changed that much in the last 30 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
CS degree requires high level of math.

I don't think plumbing and hvac require that.

good luck getting a job without a degree

Completely not accurate. Lots of IT and SWE government contractors do NOT college degree. I've seen it first hand at places such as NIH, NIST and NASA.

Many of the gov contractors have equivalent specialized military backgrounds.

No, they all have degrees.

Simply not true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go to college guys. Stop trying to parse things.

Earning a Computer Science degree is not the same as being a programmer or a SWE. And broadly, computer related professions aren't the same as being a plumber or HVAC technician.

The OP's post feeds into the anti-intellectualism spouted by many in a certain political party in the U.S.

I think OP is trying to shine a light on recent efforts to repackage IT and position it alongside economists, lawyers, philosophers, physicists, etc. It takes a lot of smarts to be a computer programmer but it is not "meaning of life" work. It is "getting things done" work.

Computer science is not only "computer programmer."

LOL, DH left a philosophical academic position for one of these "blue collar" tech jobs. The pay in tech is comparatively fantastic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go to college guys. Stop trying to parse things.

Earning a Computer Science degree is not the same as being a programmer or a SWE. And broadly, computer related professions aren't the same as being a plumber or HVAC technician.

The OP's post feeds into the anti-intellectualism spouted by many in a certain political party in the U.S.

I think OP is trying to shine a light on recent efforts to repackage IT and position it alongside economists, lawyers, philosophers, physicists, etc. It takes a lot of smarts to be a computer programmer but it is not "meaning of life" work. It is "getting things done" work.

Literally 98% of work is not “meaning of life” work. Most economists, lawyers and physicists don’t take great meaning in their jobs.

Only working philosophers have “meaning of life work”…the other 99% of people with philosophy degrees just have jobs.

Anonymous wrote:Go to college guys. Stop trying to parse things.

Earning a Computer Science degree is not the same as being a programmer or a SWE. And broadly, computer related professions aren't the same as being a plumber or HVAC technician.

The OP's post feeds into the anti-intellectualism spouted by many in a certain political party in the U.S.

I think OP is trying to shine a light on recent efforts to repackage IT and position it alongside economists, lawyers, philosophers, physicists, etc. It takes a lot of smarts to be a computer programmer but it is not "meaning of life" work. It is "getting things done" work.

Go to college guys. Stop trying to parse things.

Earning a Computer Science degree is not the same as being a programmer or a SWE. And broadly, computer related professions aren't the same as being a plumber or HVAC technician.

The OP's post feeds into the anti-intellectualism spouted by many in a certain political party in the U.S.

Network engineering is the new trade blue collar job

Anonymous wrote:"Generally speaking, a trade job is a job that is a specialized craft that requires advanced training and education, but not from a 4-year college or university. Trade workers receive their education and training through apprenticeships, on-the-job training, specialized education programs, and/or vocational schools. While many think of the construction trades when “the trades” are mentioned, the trades also include pilots, dental technicians, paralegals, home inspectors, paramedics, and so many more professions."

Sounds about right for computer programmers

The topic is Computer Science majors.

"Generally speaking, a trade job is a job that is a specialized craft that requires advanced training and education, but not from a 4-year college or university. Trade workers receive their education and training through apprenticeships, on-the-job training, specialized education programs, and/or vocational schools. While many think of the construction trades when “the trades” are mentioned, the trades also include pilots, dental technicians, paralegals, home inspectors, paramedics, and so many more professions."

Sounds about right for computer programmers

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/feb/24/lecturerspay.highereducation

Molecular Biologist who is also a plumber.

People act like tradesmen can't also be geniuses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
CS degree requires high level of math.

I don't think plumbing and hvac require that.

good luck getting a job without a degree

Completely not accurate. Lots of IT and SWE government contractors do NOT college degree. I've seen it first hand at places such as NIH, NIST and NASA.

Many of the gov contractors have equivalent specialized military backgrounds.

No, they all have degrees.

How would you know? Source?

Experience.

Anonymous wrote:CS has many branches. Some are more related to the trades than others.
People who tend to do PhDs in CS are working in more theoretical math/data analytics arenas - very intellectually heavy and nothing like the trades

+1

Husband has a PhD in unrelated field and is now a software engineer. Its a great field for smart people who can critically think and independently learn. Many positions are based on what you can do not what credential you have. It is an exciting space and quite different from HVAC

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband was an Econ major who became an expert in computer software development at his first job. He went independent after a few years and was making $400k by his early 30s. Never took a CS course.

Yea. I'm sure it is within the realm of possibility that someone could teach themselves surgery or engineering but I wouldn't hire one to build a bridge over the Potomac or cut into my chest.

You hire an engineering firm to build the bridge…if the firm has a great track record of building bridges that don’t collapse, you don’t care if their engineers have a certificate (though they all do).

On a personal level, many people trust their contractors to build structurally sound rooms on their house. Many people are more than happy to avoid the permitting process and save $$$s…happens all the time.

Even if you do it all above board, if you have an experienced builder, you are literally paying for the structural engineer’s stamp. Often times they spend 5 minutes reviewing the plans, know they are good and then charging you $2500 for that stamp.

I almost bought a house from some flippers who added a bathroom in the base. No permitting done. My realtor insisted on having it done. That was a real sh*tshow. Her phrase was "Done well and done right aren't the same thing."