My daughter has all her ducks in a row! On her dash. So is you buy her a car she doesn't like. Why should she care about it?? Just get her a Jeep and let her know if she wrecked it she will be stuck with a crap old person's car like a Subaru or a Camery. Mine knows she will not get anything cool if she wrecks it.

Op, you don’t have to take the roof off and with kids I would not. They have a sunroof style roof that is an upgrade and really nice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've driven wranglers for almost 30 years and comfortably passed one down to my daughter (and will be getting one for her little sister soon). They are plenty safe if you drive them properly. If they scare you, don't drive one and don't give them to your teen. They are not terribly practical or comfortable but they can go places and do things that your Volvo can't. Plus, there is nothing better than taking the doors and top off and enjoying a warm, sunny day driving on the beach.

OP here. It’s not that I’m worried about her driving it safely. I’m worried about somebody else driving in safely and hitting her. And flipping the wrangler. Or the airbag not deploying. Or the passenger hitting the roof. All the things the IIHS notes.

Any and every accident is different. Sometimes rolling is the safest option. A kid from my daughter's school was hit in the side with a VW. The sun basically drove over top of him and he had to be cut out of it. Major life changing issues for him. He most likely would have been better off rolling over a couple of times.

You’re insane.

DP

You’re not being very nice to that poster who probably understands a great deal more about physics than you do.

Without going into the minutiae of the dynamics of energy transfer during a crash, the one thing that’s important for you to understand is something called “Delta V”, shorthand for “change in velocity”. The higher the Delta V the greater the energy transfer into the vehicle and therefore your body. A smaller Delta V results in less energy transfer into you.

So an impact that sends a car rolling over a couple times will have a much lower Delta V (and therefore less energy transferred into the occupants than a crash which instantly stops the vehicle at the site of the crash. The crumple zones in a modern vehicle are just an engineered way to lower the Delta V by extending the distance and time required to smash a crumple zone and expending energy there rather than sending it into the occupants. A crumple zone might be 24” long. That’s all the distance that can be used to expend that energy. A rollover might use 40 feet of distance to expend that same amount of energy as the crumple zone, over a much longer timeline. Therefore the rollover will have a much lower Delta V

Because SCIENCE!


-an electrical engineer

DP. But doesn’t rolling increase the risk of being ejected from the car? Maybe not, I’m not a scientist.

If you’re not wearing a seatbelt, yes absolutely. But if you don’t bother to wear a seatbelt, you don’t even belong in a conversation about safety.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Noting the poor IIHS reviews on the 2019-2023 Wranglers, and also noting the massive number of Wranglers I see on the road. I know people probably cannot answer this question with any precision, but what gives? Do others just have a higher risk tolerance than I do? DC wants a Wrangler (and seems that most of the drivers I see on the road in a Wrangler are teens). Seems an easy choice - don't get one.

I’ve owned 6 Jeep CJ’s or Wranglers, since 1993. Current Jeep is a ‘16 4-door.

Please accept this advice from me as a subject matter expert when it comes to Jeeps:

Stop trying to understand why people enjoy them - you are incapable of it. Just put it out of your mind and move on with your life. I definitely would NOT recommend getting your kid one, because being the buzzkill you are, you’ll suck the joy of out it like an energy vampire. Get your kid a Volvo or whatever other car safety conscious people buy for their kids, and when they’re an adult and on their own, they can buy one if they still want one.

But don’t get one. You don’t get it, you don’t understand it, and you’ll hate it. So just pretend they don’t exist.

I FORBID you from owning one.


Clear?

OP here. These posts - other than this one - have been very informative and helpful. But the PP who forbids me from getting a Jeep seems unhinged. Sorry I triggered you, snowflake. I’m not questioning YOUR entire life, just looking for some perspective. Go pet your little duckies and take a pill.

Duckies are now a jeep thing.

Op, my insurance went down when I got my wrangler from a 15 year old suv. You can custom order a wrangler with more safety features. But I’d get a 4 door sport as they are lowest to the ground.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've driven wranglers for almost 30 years and comfortably passed one down to my daughter (and will be getting one for her little sister soon). They are plenty safe if you drive them properly. If they scare you, don't drive one and don't give them to your teen. They are not terribly practical or comfortable but they can go places and do things that your Volvo can't. Plus, there is nothing better than taking the doors and top off and enjoying a warm, sunny day driving on the beach.

OP here. It’s not that I’m worried about her driving it safely. I’m worried about somebody else driving in safely and hitting her. And flipping the wrangler. Or the airbag not deploying. Or the passenger hitting the roof. All the things the IIHS notes.

Any and every accident is different. Sometimes rolling is the safest option. A kid from my daughter's school was hit in the side with a VW. The sun basically drove over top of him and he had to be cut out of it. Major life changing issues for him. He most likely would have been better off rolling over a couple of times.

You’re insane.

DP

You’re not being very nice to that poster who probably understands a great deal more about physics than you do.

Without going into the minutiae of the dynamics of energy transfer during a crash, the one thing that’s important for you to understand is something called “Delta V”, shorthand for “change in velocity”. The higher the Delta V the greater the energy transfer into the vehicle and therefore your body. A smaller Delta V results in less energy transfer into you.

So an impact that sends a car rolling over a couple times will have a much lower Delta V (and therefore less energy transferred into the occupants than a crash which instantly stops the vehicle at the site of the crash. The crumple zones in a modern vehicle are just an engineered way to lower the Delta V by extending the distance and time required to smash a crumple zone and expending energy there rather than sending it into the occupants. A crumple zone might be 24” long. That’s all the distance that can be used to expend that energy. A rollover might use 40 feet of distance to expend that same amount of energy as the crumple zone, over a much longer timeline. Therefore the rollover will have a much lower Delta V

Because SCIENCE!


-an electrical engineer

DP. But doesn’t rolling increase the risk of being ejected from the car? Maybe not, I’m not a scientist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've driven wranglers for almost 30 years and comfortably passed one down to my daughter (and will be getting one for her little sister soon). They are plenty safe if you drive them properly. If they scare you, don't drive one and don't give them to your teen. They are not terribly practical or comfortable but they can go places and do things that your Volvo can't. Plus, there is nothing better than taking the doors and top off and enjoying a warm, sunny day driving on the beach.

OP here. It’s not that I’m worried about her driving it safely. I’m worried about somebody else driving in safely and hitting her. And flipping the wrangler. Or the airbag not deploying. Or the passenger hitting the roof. All the things the IIHS notes.

Any and every accident is different. Sometimes rolling is the safest option. A kid from my daughter's school was hit in the side with a VW. The sun basically drove over top of him and he had to be cut out of it. Major life changing issues for him. He most likely would have been better off rolling over a couple of times.

You’re insane.

DP

You’re not being very nice to that poster who probably understands a great deal more about physics than you do.

Without going into the minutiae of the dynamics of energy transfer during a crash, the one thing that’s important for you to understand is something called “Delta V”, shorthand for “change in velocity”. The higher the Delta V the greater the energy transfer into the vehicle and therefore your body. A smaller Delta V results in less energy transfer into you.

So an impact that sends a car rolling over a couple times will have a much lower Delta V (and therefore less energy transferred into the occupants than a crash which instantly stops the vehicle at the site of the crash. The crumple zones in a modern vehicle are just an engineered way to lower the Delta V by extending the distance and time required to smash a crumple zone and expending energy there rather than sending it into the occupants. A crumple zone might be 24” long. That’s all the distance that can be used to expend that energy. A rollover might use 40 feet of distance to expend that same amount of energy as the crumple zone, over a much longer timeline. Therefore the rollover will have a much lower Delta V

Because SCIENCE!


-an electrical engineer

Anonymous wrote:Google “Jeep gas tank explosion”. They settle through arbitration so that they don’t ever have to recall vehicles. It’s mainly the Jeep Liberty, but I’ll never trust that company with anyone in my family.

Yes I know someone who had a fender bender and then her car burst into flames. Burns over 2/3 of her body.

Pass.

Liberty is built completely different.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've driven wranglers for almost 30 years and comfortably passed one down to my daughter (and will be getting one for her little sister soon). They are plenty safe if you drive them properly. If they scare you, don't drive one and don't give them to your teen. They are not terribly practical or comfortable but they can go places and do things that your Volvo can't. Plus, there is nothing better than taking the doors and top off and enjoying a warm, sunny day driving on the beach.

OP here. It’s not that I’m worried about her driving it safely. I’m worried about somebody else driving in safely and hitting her. And flipping the wrangler. Or the airbag not deploying. Or the passenger hitting the roof. All the things the IIHS notes.

If you remove the roof, then you don't need to worry. Would rather be hit in a wrangler than a mini or a Tesla which might self-immolate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kinda funny all the haters. Was just on a Wrangler group on Facebook. A insurance adjuster was saying how well Wranglers hold up during accidents. It's the only car he will buy. While a firefighter commented that he will always drive a Wrangler because they hold up so well when hit by other vehicles. This might by why they are cheap to insure. As a insurance agent told me when I asked him about a high performance Volvo. He said it was cheaper to buy and insure a Corvette. Why?? Because people that cant drive buy them. People that get into accidents buy Volvos.

I'd love to hear what actually makes Wranglers unreliable!! Not much to go wrong with them unless you get a hybrid one. Or beat on it hard off road.

OP here. I’m not a hater. Just looking to get facts to make a decision. Not questioning the reliability so much as asking how safe a wrangler is for a brand new driver. The responses seem to fall into (1) safe but not a great choice for a new driver based on how it drives and (potentially) a lack of driver-centric safety features that other cars provide standard, (2) you’re a fun-hating wimp for even asking this question, (3) you’re a fun-hating wimp for even asking this question, but the more I think about it I wouldn’t get one for my new driver, and (4) why do you hate Wranglers so much.

So, all in all, reasonably helpful for any number of reasons.

The answers you should be paying most attention to are the ones that say “depends on the kid”. Because that’s the deciding factor in whether it's a safe option or not. Some kids could drive a C8 Corvette as their first car and never have a problem or drive it unsafely or irresponsibly. Other kids would still find a way to be dangerous in a Volvo diesel station wagon. Only you know your kid. I’m a volunteer fire fighter in MoCo, and I’ve seen more kids wreck Honda Civic coupes than any other type of car. Most were hurt, a few were killed. But it’s a Honda Civic coupe so often it’s practically a meme in the fire service and ems responder profession. I’ve seen lots of car crashes, probably hundreds in 15 years I’ve been a volunteer. I’ve only ever responded to a single call for a badly crashed Jeep. It was T-boned by another car which ran through a red light and broadsided it at a pretty good speed. The Jeep did in fact roll over after being hit in the side. It rolled all the way over, actually, and was back on its wheels. At the time I remember being impressed about two things on the Jeep. 1) the roll cage that Jeep Wrangler models have is able to deal with a rollover crash really well. It is seriously strong and easily supports the weight of the vehicle upside down during a crash. 2) it had some type of rock skid guard running board things along the sides of the body just underneath the doors. They were made of very substantial steel apparently, because they completely prevented the T-boning car from intruding into the passenger compartment on the right side of the vehicle. Not all Jeeps have these I’ve noticed, but they all should because it was quite impressive. The driver and passenger in the Jeep had both self-extricated after the crash, and both had neck injuries (whiplash basically) from the side impact, which would be expected in that type of crash, as well as the driver probably having some cracked ribs on the right side from their seatbelt, which is also normal for a T-bone crash. The passenger was otherwise ok despite being on the side that took the hit, which really surprised us at first but after looking at the skid guard thing it made a little more sense. The front airbags did not go off, which is normal for that type of crash in some vehicles, since it wasn’t a frontal crash. There were no side airbags apparently, because if there were they would’ve gone off in this type of crash. The Jeep was actually driveable afterwards, because the driver moved it out of the intersection and out of traffic. The windshield was badly smashed and the convertible top was torn and ripped, but the roll cage held up fine. It had body damage on both sides where it rolled, but the side windows were all intact and all the doors still opened, which was also surprising to me at the time. So there’s a real world observation of a Jeep crash from maybe 6-7 years ago.

Anonymous wrote:Kinda funny all the haters. Was just on a Wrangler group on Facebook. A insurance adjuster was saying how well Wranglers hold up during accidents. It's the only car he will buy. While a firefighter commented that he will always drive a Wrangler because they hold up so well when hit by other vehicles. This might by why they are cheap to insure. As a insurance agent told me when I asked him about a high performance Volvo. He said it was cheaper to buy and insure a Corvette. Why?? Because people that cant drive buy them. People that get into accidents buy Volvos.

I'd love to hear what actually makes Wranglers unreliable!! Not much to go wrong with them unless you get a hybrid one. Or beat on it hard off road.

OP here. I’m not a hater. Just looking to get facts to make a decision. Not questioning the reliability so much as asking how safe a wrangler is for a brand new driver. The responses seem to fall into (1) safe but not a great choice for a new driver based on how it drives and (potentially) a lack of driver-centric safety features that other cars provide standard, (2) you’re a fun-hating wimp for even asking this question, (3) you’re a fun-hating wimp for even asking this question, but the more I think about it I wouldn’t get one for my new driver, and (4) why do you hate Wranglers so much.

So, all in all, reasonably helpful for any number of reasons.

I'm curious what Wrangler haters do for fun?? Listen to NPR?? I know you hate anything fun!! No horseback riding for you or your kids! Skiing is too dangerous for you guys too!! And we know you do not even remember the last time you had hot steamy sex! With your spouse or anyone else for that matter!!

Google “Jeep gas tank explosion”. They settle through arbitration so that they don’t ever have to recall vehicles. It’s mainly the Jeep Liberty, but I’ll never trust that company with anyone in my family.

Yes I know someone who had a fender bender and then her car burst into flames. Burns over 2/3 of her body.

Pass.

Kinda funny all the haters. Was just on a Wrangler group on Facebook. A insurance adjuster was saying how well Wranglers hold up during accidents. It's the only car he will buy. While a firefighter commented that he will always drive a Wrangler because they hold up so well when hit by other vehicles. This might by why they are cheap to insure. As a insurance agent told me when I asked him about a high performance Volvo. He said it was cheaper to buy and insure a Corvette. Why?? Because people that cant drive buy them. People that get into accidents buy Volvos.

I'd love to hear what actually makes Wranglers unreliable!! Not much to go wrong with them unless you get a hybrid one. Or beat on it hard off road.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Noting the poor IIHS reviews on the 2019-2023 Wranglers, and also noting the massive number of Wranglers I see on the road. I know people probably cannot answer this question with any precision, but what gives? Do others just have a higher risk tolerance than I do? DC wants a Wrangler (and seems that most of the drivers I see on the road in a Wrangler are teens). Seems an easy choice - don't get one.

I’ve owned 6 Jeep CJ’s or Wranglers, since 1993. Current Jeep is a ‘16 4-door.

Please accept this advice from me as a subject matter expert when it comes to Jeeps:

Stop trying to understand why people enjoy them - you are incapable of it. Just put it out of your mind and move on with your life. I definitely would NOT recommend getting your kid one, because being the buzzkill you are, you’ll suck the joy of out it like an energy vampire. Get your kid a Volvo or whatever other car safety conscious people buy for their kids, and when they’re an adult and on their own, they can buy one if they still want one.

But don’t get one. You don’t get it, you don’t understand it, and you’ll hate it. So just pretend they don’t exist.

I FORBID you from owning one.


Clear?

OP here. These posts - other than this one - have been very informative and helpful. But the PP who forbids me from getting a Jeep seems unhinged. Sorry I triggered you, snowflake. I’m not questioning YOUR entire life, just looking for some perspective. Go pet your little duckies and take a pill.

Hmm. You seem to be the zanax queen!!! Now go get some wine for breakfast!!