Anonymous
10/10/2023 10:02
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:Could also be TO and weaker admissions standards for “prestige” universities. It’s not just the pandemic.
+1
Anonymous
10/10/2023 09:59
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Could also be TO and weaker admissions standards for “prestige” universities. It’s not just the pandemic.
TO has nothing to do with weather a student is prepared for college.
I would say I have not seen a major change. If anything, students seem better prepared overall. There are still a few that I was would have been required to talk a basic writing class. The one area I do see a difference is the extent to which students want to turn in work late. There doesn't seem to be the same priority for deadlines.
+1 My colleagues at T20 schools, SLACS, and public R1 universities report the same behavior I have observed since the pandemic. The majority of students are academically prepared; however, there has been an increase in the number of students who can't meet deadlines, ask to redo assignments, struggle with mental health, and chronically skip class.
I'm at a public R1, and our DRW rates have slightly increased since the pandemic; there is some evidence that some TO students are struggling in gateway math courses and had to repeat a course or switch majors. However, this is not a significant number of students compared to pre-TO data. Retention rates amongst TO students haven't decreased, and they are on track to graduate and not negatively impact our 4- or 6-year graduate rates.
OP - that is encouraging thank you .
OP - to clarify / Sorry the part about increased mental health issues is not encouraging but perfectly understandable given the collective traumas our youth experienced during the pandemic. I was aware and we already are quite proactive on the mental health front.
Yes you are right that this impacts executive functioning quite a lot. We will continue to work on those skill sets.
However, I had assumed there would be more impacts on academic skill sets as well and am encouraged that is reportedly not the case .
I think the mental heath issues pre-dated the pandemic. I think a lot of the mental health issues also stem from kids living under immense pressure and having their parents manage their entire lives.
OP - maybe but research is very mixed in that regard. Some research shows that college students with helicopter parents do better and are more confident because they know their parents support them and their success.
I am sure there is a balance to that and we parents have to gradually hand over the reigns to our children as they prepare for adult life.
I also think there are way more expectations placed on students now then when I was young.
We emphasize to our DC that there are many paths to success and that admission to prestigious brand name colleges is not the goal - rather to pursue studies they find interesting in a setting where they feel safe and happy and that eventually lead towards types of employments they will enjoy.
Anonymous
10/10/2023 09:54
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
I teach at community colleges. My classes are very heavy in requiring actual thinking, but the students seem prepared for only multiple-choice exams that require them to “recognize” answers, not come up with answers via intense thinking.
Student preparedness has been going down for about 10 yrs. I put most of the blame on high school teachers & their reliance on Scantrons. When a test approaches, the students’ main concern is whether they have to provide their own Scantrons. They are shocked when I tell them I’ve never used them for classroom evaluations.
Think about it. If your exam is all multiple-choice, you don’t really have to KNOW the material to pass; you usually just have to be vaguely familiar with the material.
Student preparedness has been going down for about 10 yrs. I put most of the blame on high school teachers & their reliance on Scantrons. When a test approaches, the students’ main concern is whether they have to provide their own Scantrons. They are shocked when I tell them I’ve never used them for classroom evaluations.
Think about it. If your exam is all multiple-choice, you don’t really have to KNOW the material to pass; you usually just have to be vaguely familiar with the material.
Anonymous
10/10/2023 09:51
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Could also be TO and weaker admissions standards for “prestige” universities. It’s not just the pandemic.
TO has nothing to do with weather a student is prepared for college.
I would say I have not seen a major change. If anything, students seem better prepared overall. There are still a few that I was would have been required to talk a basic writing class. The one area I do see a difference is the extent to which students want to turn in work late. There doesn't seem to be the same priority for deadlines.
+1 My colleagues at T20 schools, SLACS, and public R1 universities report the same behavior I have observed since the pandemic. The majority of students are academically prepared; however, there has been an increase in the number of students who can't meet deadlines, ask to redo assignments, struggle with mental health, and chronically skip class.
I'm at a public R1, and our DRW rates have slightly increased since the pandemic; there is some evidence that some TO students are struggling in gateway math courses and had to repeat a course or switch majors. However, this is not a significant number of students compared to pre-TO data. Retention rates amongst TO students haven't decreased, and they are on track to graduate and not negatively impact our 4- or 6-year graduate rates.
How do you know this? My husband and I both faculty at universities and neither of us are privy to any of this.
Chair of the department and serve on the faculty senate executive committee.
Are you supposed to be sharing this info?
My spouse is also similarly involved and has been told explicitly not to share info based on limited data or speculate about it.
The information is not public but wasn't told explicitly to not share the info. However, I didn't name the school, and this is an anonymous forum. I'll take my chances!
OP - sorry I had no idea this could place anyone at any professional risk. I am just a mom of a HS student whom we hope to launch into college life successfully in a few years.
Thank you very much for replying.
It is actually encouraging that students seems to be relatively well prepared overall.
We do plan to encourage DC to work on writing skills, being on time and handing in assignments on time, per suggestions.
However, it is great that college graduation rates have not changed much since TO.
OP, student preparedness for college goes beyond academic knowledge. It refers to the degree to which a student is ready to succeed academically, socially, and emotionally in college. This encompasses a range of factors beyond academic knowledge and skills, such as study habits, time management, self-advocacy, emotional/mental resilience, and the ability to navigate and adapt to the college environment and its associated responsibilities.
Therefore, most colleges, especially selective/highly selective institutions, are investing a lot of resources into student success initiatives to improve student retention and graduation rates. This shift pre-dates the pandemic, however, the last few years have exacerbated this issue of student preparedness. For example, during the last 6-8 years, my institution reorganized separate student-centered programs and resources under a larger academic success program and increasingly uses enrollment/student success management systems (aka algorithms) to boost student success rates by determining financial aid, predicting and identifying students in danger of failing a class or dropping out, and to support students during their college, i.e., from enrollment to graduation.
OP - thanks and I agree that college preparedness is multi layered. Your college/ Uni sounds extremely proactive, which is super!
May I ask what you think parents should encourage or pay attention to foster different layers of preparedness for college success?
It feels like college expectations and life are so different from when I was young.
I had never heard of “student success management systems (aka algorithms) to boost student success rates by determining financial aid, predicting and identifying students in danger of failing a class or dropping out, and to support students during their college, i.e., from enrollment to graduation.”
Do the algorithms weed out students with learning differences or other graduation risk factors at the enrollment level :/ or are they intended to find ways to better support them during the college experience?
I am also interested in what types of writing skills need work - is it basic writing skills or ability to structure arguments in academic ways ?
Thanks again for your thoughtful reply.
Anonymous
10/10/2023 09:49
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Could also be TO and weaker admissions standards for “prestige” universities. It’s not just the pandemic.
TO has nothing to do with weather a student is prepared for college.
I would say I have not seen a major change. If anything, students seem better prepared overall. There are still a few that I was would have been required to talk a basic writing class. The one area I do see a difference is the extent to which students want to turn in work late. There doesn't seem to be the same priority for deadlines.
+1 My colleagues at T20 schools, SLACS, and public R1 universities report the same behavior I have observed since the pandemic. The majority of students are academically prepared; however, there has been an increase in the number of students who can't meet deadlines, ask to redo assignments, struggle with mental health, and chronically skip class.
I'm at a public R1, and our DRW rates have slightly increased since the pandemic; there is some evidence that some TO students are struggling in gateway math courses and had to repeat a course or switch majors. However, this is not a significant number of students compared to pre-TO data. Retention rates amongst TO students haven't decreased, and they are on track to graduate and not negatively impact our 4- or 6-year graduate rates.
OP - that is encouraging thank you .
OP - to clarify / Sorry the part about increased mental health issues is not encouraging but perfectly understandable given the collective traumas our youth experienced during the pandemic. I was aware and we already are quite proactive on the mental health front.
Yes you are right that this impacts executive functioning quite a lot. We will continue to work on those skill sets.
However, I had assumed there would be more impacts on academic skill sets as well and am encouraged that is reportedly not the case .
I think the mental heath issues pre-dated the pandemic. I think a lot of the mental health issues also stem from kids living under immense pressure and having their parents manage their entire lives.
Anonymous
10/10/2023 09:15
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Could also be TO and weaker admissions standards for “prestige” universities. It’s not just the pandemic.
TO has nothing to do with weather a student is prepared for college.
I would say I have not seen a major change. If anything, students seem better prepared overall. There are still a few that I was would have been required to talk a basic writing class. The one area I do see a difference is the extent to which students want to turn in work late. There doesn't seem to be the same priority for deadlines.
+1 My colleagues at T20 schools, SLACS, and public R1 universities report the same behavior I have observed since the pandemic. The majority of students are academically prepared; however, there has been an increase in the number of students who can't meet deadlines, ask to redo assignments, struggle with mental health, and chronically skip class.
I'm at a public R1, and our DRW rates have slightly increased since the pandemic; there is some evidence that some TO students are struggling in gateway math courses and had to repeat a course or switch majors. However, this is not a significant number of students compared to pre-TO data. Retention rates amongst TO students haven't decreased, and they are on track to graduate and not negatively impact our 4- or 6-year graduate rates.
How do you know this? My husband and I both faculty at universities and neither of us are privy to any of this.
Chair of the department and serve on the faculty senate executive committee.
Are you supposed to be sharing this info?
My spouse is also similarly involved and has been told explicitly not to share info based on limited data or speculate about it.
The information is not public but wasn't told explicitly to not share the info. However, I didn't name the school, and this is an anonymous forum. I'll take my chances!
OP - sorry I had no idea this could place anyone at any professional risk. I am just a mom of a HS student whom we hope to launch into college life successfully in a few years.
Thank you very much for replying.
It is actually encouraging that students seems to be relatively well prepared overall.
We do plan to encourage DC to work on writing skills, being on time and handing in assignments on time, per suggestions.
However, it is great that college graduation rates have not changed much since TO.
OP, student preparedness for college goes beyond academic knowledge. It refers to the degree to which a student is ready to succeed academically, socially, and emotionally in college. This encompasses a range of factors beyond academic knowledge and skills, such as study habits, time management, self-advocacy, emotional/mental resilience, and the ability to navigate and adapt to the college environment and its associated responsibilities.
Therefore, most colleges, especially selective/highly selective institutions, are investing a lot of resources into student success initiatives to improve student retention and graduation rates. This shift pre-dates the pandemic, however, the last few years have exacerbated this issue of student preparedness. For example, during the last 6-8 years, my institution reorganized separate student-centered programs and resources under a larger academic success program and increasingly uses enrollment/student success management systems (aka algorithms) to boost student success rates by determining financial aid, predicting and identifying students in danger of failing a class or dropping out, and to support students during their college, i.e., from enrollment to graduation.
Anonymous
10/10/2023 09:10
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Could also be TO and weaker admissions standards for “prestige” universities. It’s not just the pandemic.
TO has nothing to do with weather a student is prepared for college.
I would say I have not seen a major change. If anything, students seem better prepared overall. There are still a few that I was would have been required to talk a basic writing class. The one area I do see a difference is the extent to which students want to turn in work late. There doesn't seem to be the same priority for deadlines.
“Nothing to do with weather (sic) a student is prepared…” I started to question whether or not a college professor wrote this, but then I realized that only an academic would write something this stupid. Based upon this and the grammatical errors in your post, it is clear that we should not place any weight upon your judgment regarding the preparedness of students for college (fake academic or not).
The PP corrected it immediately after. A lot of people do speech to text for forums and sometimes there are quirks. Regardless, plenty of people make homonym writing glitches when they are writing in informal settings because they are "talking" their thoughts rather than writing them.
So they reread the post and didn’t notice all of the grammatical errors?
Forums are not for formal writing.
Anonymous
10/10/2023 08:37
Subject: Re:Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:“All” is too broad, but I think “many” or even “most” probably is true…
OP / yes - that was not meant to be interpreted literally ….
But I should have clarified “broad range”
Or “many”
Or “most”
Thanks for clarifying …
Anonymous
10/10/2023 08:27
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Could also be TO and weaker admissions standards for “prestige” universities. It’s not just the pandemic.
TO has nothing to do with weather a student is prepared for college.
I would say I have not seen a major change. If anything, students seem better prepared overall. There are still a few that I was would have been required to talk a basic writing class. The one area I do see a difference is the extent to which students want to turn in work late. There doesn't seem to be the same priority for deadlines.
+1 My colleagues at T20 schools, SLACS, and public R1 universities report the same behavior I have observed since the pandemic. The majority of students are academically prepared; however, there has been an increase in the number of students who can't meet deadlines, ask to redo assignments, struggle with mental health, and chronically skip class.
I'm at a public R1, and our DRW rates have slightly increased since the pandemic; there is some evidence that some TO students are struggling in gateway math courses and had to repeat a course or switch majors. However, this is not a significant number of students compared to pre-TO data. Retention rates amongst TO students haven't decreased, and they are on track to graduate and not negatively impact our 4- or 6-year graduate rates.
OP - that is encouraging thank you .
OP - to clarify / Sorry the part about increased mental health issues is not encouraging but perfectly understandable given the collective traumas our youth experienced during the pandemic. I was aware and we already are quite proactive on the mental health front.
Yes you are right that this impacts executive functioning quite a lot. We will continue to work on those skill sets.
However, I had assumed there would be more impacts on academic skill sets as well and am encouraged that is reportedly not the case .
Anonymous
10/10/2023 08:22
Subject: Re:Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
“All” is too broad, but I think “many” or even “most” probably is true…
Anonymous
10/10/2023 08:17
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:All the people slamming the professor for misspelling. Have you all seen some engineers' writing skills? Anyway-OP I kind of follow the professors subreddit and it sheds some light into your question. There is a lot of discussion about kids having a hard time following instructions, not writing well, struggling with basic math in higher level math courses. And freaking about not getting As. I think the degree of preparedness is very dependent on the college/university.
OP - yes I agree abiut spelling errors not indicating much at all. I care about the content of replies.
I plan on focussing on areas you mentioned - getting extra help for writing skills and maybe an executive function coach for some time.
Yes I agree that college choice will be major factor in preparedness and we will be encouraging them to apply to best fit colleges.
Anonymous
10/10/2023 08:08
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Could also be TO and weaker admissions standards for “prestige” universities. It’s not just the pandemic.
TO has nothing to do with weather a student is prepared for college.
I would say I have not seen a major change. If anything, students seem better prepared overall. There are still a few that I was would have been required to talk a basic writing class. The one area I do see a difference is the extent to which students want to turn in work late. There doesn't seem to be the same priority for deadlines.
OMG, you are SOOOOO not a professor! Such a troll! Maybe if you could learn how to spell and use grammar properly, we'd believe you.
OP - this issue was thoroughly discussed on previous pages. I believe him or her as others stated similar experiences. They stated their relevant qualifications and experience, which were strong.
I don’t think grammatical or spelling errors on an anonymous internet message board matter. People are busy and not proof reading their comments.
Anonymous
10/10/2023 08:06
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
All the people slamming the professor for misspelling. Have you all seen some engineers' writing skills? Anyway-OP I kind of follow the professors subreddit and it sheds some light into your question. There is a lot of discussion about kids having a hard time following instructions, not writing well, struggling with basic math in higher level math courses. And freaking about not getting As. I think the degree of preparedness is very dependent on the college/university.
Anonymous
10/10/2023 08:01
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:But when were those studies done? If the data is more than 10 years old, it may no longer be accurate given the rapid increase in grade inflation.
OP - Both Forbes and U Chicago research are dated 2020.
There was research saying the same thing many years ago as well. I have never seen research that test scores trump GPAs for predicting college success.
Where are you seeing research that grade inflation is a huge issue? I have not seen that but it may exist. There is recent research that math scores are way down putting US students at international disadvantage and that ES reading comprehension levels have dropped due to not teaching reading phonemics (linking sounds to letters). But they are different issues from grade inflation.
It makes sense to me that GPAs are better predictors than test scores for future college success (as long as grades are earned honestly).
Anonymous
10/10/2023 07:35
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
But when were those studies done? If the data is more than 10 years old, it may no longer be accurate given the rapid increase in grade inflation.