Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was digging into the data. For 2021-2022 grads, roughly the same percentage of the class graduated with student loans— roughly 1/3 of grades. But the average total loans from WM were $21,000 for a BA. For UVA it is $51,000 for a BA. That’s a huge difference.

Why is that? W&M is more expensive in state and less expensive OOS. Is W&M better with financial aid? Or is it that it’s a small SLAC like school and students are self selecting and just more affluent? I would have predicted WM students to have more debt because most students are in state.

What's the OOS proportion of the student body for UVA v. W&M?

Google says UVA 32% OOS. WM is 38%. So if anything the WM loan average should be larger.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many full ride scholarships does W&M give out each year? What about UVA?

Roughly top 10% at W&M get the Monroe scholarship, which covers 100% in-state tuition.
Then there is the W&M scholarship which also cover 100% in-state tuition. There is another initiative for Pell grant receivers also, but not sure how their budget can do it all at the same time with the multiple construction projects. We shall see.

https://news.wm.edu/2022/09/23/wm-commits-to-cover-full-tuition-and-fees-for-all-in-state-pell-grant-recipients/
https://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/costs-aid/scholarship/

These things are all funded differently. They don't really compete like that. Construction for most projects is either funded through the state capital budget or through bonds. In the case of new dorms, the bonds are revenue bonds backed by the room and board revenue. (William and Mary's new dorms are being built with a public-private partnership with a developer, an approach that is increasingly used in higher education). Merit scholarships are funded by external private foundations. Financial aid is funded by general revenue (including tuition), private philanthropy, and state and federal sources.

Ah, thank you for the clarification.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many full ride scholarships does W&M give out each year? What about UVA?

Roughly top 10% at W&M get the Monroe scholarship, which covers 100% in-state tuition.
Then there is the W&M scholarship which also cover 100% in-state tuition. There is another initiative for Pell grant receivers also, but not sure how their budget can do it all at the same time with the multiple construction projects. We shall see.

https://news.wm.edu/2022/09/23/wm-commits-to-cover-full-tuition-and-fees-for-all-in-state-pell-grant-recipients/
https://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/costs-aid/scholarship/

These things are all funded differently. They don't really compete like that. Construction for most projects is either funded through the state capital budget or through bonds. In the case of new dorms, the bonds are revenue bonds backed by the room and board revenue. (William and Mary's new dorms are being built with a public-private partnership with a developer, an approach that is increasingly used in higher education). Merit scholarships are funded by external private foundations. Financial aid is funded by general revenue (including tuition), private philanthropy, and state and federal sources.

Anonymous wrote:UVA the highest test scores in the state. Obviously

Are you really this insecure?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many full ride scholarships does W&M give out each year? What about UVA?

Roughly top 10% at W&M get the Monroe scholarship, which covers 100% in-state tuition.
Then there is the W&M scholarship which also cover 100% in-state tuition. There is another initiative for Pell grant receivers also, but not sure how their budget can do it all at the same time with the multiple construction projects. We shall see.

https://news.wm.edu/2022/09/23/wm-commits-to-cover-full-tuition-and-fees-for-all-in-state-pell-grant-recipients/
https://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/costs-aid/scholarship/

NOPE

Oh, shoot you are right; this is what I get for jumping the gun. They only get a research stipend and other non-monetary perks. Seems similar to UVA in those perks.

W&M scholarship though does cover it, unless my reading skills have totally abandoned me.

Monroe at W&M is similar to Echols/Rodman at UVA and provides flexibility on requirements and a research stipend, but not tuition and is based on merit.

1693 Scholars at W&M are similar to Jefferson Scholars at UVA and are also based on merit. It funds tuition and some other things. Both are funded by and managed by foundations external to the schools. These are relatively limited in number, probably more so for 1693 program as it is more recent. (W&L has the biggest merit scholarship program in the state on a percentage of class basis, with at least 10% of the incoming class receiving tuition and room and board through the Johnson Scholars program.)

The Common Data Sets contain a line that specifies the number of students without financial need who were awarded non-need based scholarships (excluding athletic awards). The number for W&M for all undergraduates was 382 and for UVA was 1108. UVA has about 2.7X as many undergraduates, so the UVA merit number is slightly higher on a proportional basis.

I suspect the PP who quoted a big disparity in student debt didn't have the right numbers. I think they are similar. Merit aid is not a significant factor. Many who get merit would not have gotten financial aid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This stats aren’t really helpful, because they report the university as a whole. Many programs are either easier or more difficult. VT engineering is much higher than the numbers reported for VT as a whole.

Special programs everywhere usually require higher scores than the average at any college I would assume. However, they can serve as a general idea.

UVA has engineering too, and their average is still higher than Tech. W&M has no engineering, and they are right there with UVA. You will never have true apples to apples without all the details.

Just look at the college your kid is interested in how they'd fit into the general profile and then make adjustments for special programs and hooks.

Wow. W&M with no engineering actually has almost identical SATs and GPAs as UVA— and higher 75% GPAs. And identical ACTs. With about the Sam percentage of kids reporting test scores. So much for being a second chance for kids not admitted to UVA.

Nice try.

UVA is more competitive. Period.

DP. And you wonder why UVA boosters and mocked and reviled. Get over yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was digging into the data. For 2021-2022 grads, roughly the same percentage of the class graduated with student loans— roughly 1/3 of grades. But the average total loans from WM were $21,000 for a BA. For UVA it is $51,000 for a BA. That’s a huge difference.

Why is that? W&M is more expensive in state and less expensive OOS. Is W&M better with financial aid? Or is it that it’s a small SLAC like school and students are self selecting and just more affluent? I would have predicted WM students to have more debt because most students are in state.

Where do you see that?

I do not see it. I see in the research reports that they have similar loan amounts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This stats aren’t really helpful, because they report the university as a whole. Many programs are either easier or more difficult. VT engineering is much higher than the numbers reported for VT as a whole.

Special programs everywhere usually require higher scores than the average at any college I would assume. However, they can serve as a general idea.

UVA has engineering too, and their average is still higher than Tech. W&M has no engineering, and they are right there with UVA. You will never have true apples to apples without all the details.

Just look at the college your kid is interested in how they'd fit into the general profile and then make adjustments for special programs and hooks.

Wow. W&M with no engineering actually has almost identical SATs and GPAs as UVA— and higher 75% GPAs. And identical ACTs. With about the Sam percentage of kids reporting test scores. So much for being a second chance for kids not admitted to UVA.

W&M has lower SATs at the 50th and 25th percentile

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This stats aren’t really helpful, because they report the university as a whole. Many programs are either easier or more difficult. VT engineering is much higher than the numbers reported for VT as a whole.

Special programs everywhere usually require higher scores than the average at any college I would assume. However, they can serve as a general idea.

UVA has engineering too, and their average is still higher than Tech. W&M has no engineering, and they are right there with UVA. You will never have true apples to apples without all the details.

Just look at the college your kid is interested in how they'd fit into the general profile and then make adjustments for special programs and hooks.

Wow. W&M with no engineering actually has almost identical SATs and GPAs as UVA— and higher 75% GPAs. And identical ACTs. With about the Sam percentage of kids reporting test scores. So much for being a second chance for kids not admitted to UVA.

Nice try.

UVA is more competitive. Period.

No it doesn’t. SCHEV clearly states that W&M ACTs at the 75th percentile, median and 25th percentile are lower than UVAs. That’s a first and significant

SCHEV shows the ACT Composite for both UVA and W&M 34 at the 75th, 33 at the 50th, and 32 at the 25th percentile.

You are right. I meant SAT. W&M is lower both both the median and significantly so at the 25th percentile

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many full ride scholarships does W&M give out each year? What about UVA?

Roughly top 10% at W&M get the Monroe scholarship, which covers 100% in-state tuition.
Then there is the W&M scholarship which also cover 100% in-state tuition. There is another initiative for Pell grant receivers also, but not sure how their budget can do it all at the same time with the multiple construction projects. We shall see.

https://news.wm.edu/2022/09/23/wm-commits-to-cover-full-tuition-and-fees-for-all-in-state-pell-grant-recipients/
https://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/costs-aid/scholarship/

NOPE

Oh, shoot you are right; this is what I get for jumping the gun. They only get a research stipend and other non-monetary perks. Seems similar to UVA in those perks.

W&M scholarship though does cover it, unless my reading skills have totally abandoned me.

One thing you have to remember about UVA is the huge tuition difference depending on the school your student is in. I don’t know if that’s the same for W&M. My DS had to take a loan this year because he’s in the Batten school now and it’s about a $9k increase per year over the college of arts and sciences. His EFC is $40k and that is also his cost of attendance.

Also UVA is much larger than W&M so not sure it’s even worth comparing the total debt in that way. They take less in state students and it’s a small liberal arts type college in a public school body.

Monroe Scholars program is the honors program at W&M. It is NOT a big fat scholarship.

The only money is a small grant for a research project one summer. That’s it for Monroe $.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was digging into the data. For 2021-2022 grads, roughly the same percentage of the class graduated with student loans— roughly 1/3 of grades. But the average total loans from WM were $21,000 for a BA. For UVA it is $51,000 for a BA. That’s a huge difference.

Why is that? W&M is more expensive in state and less expensive OOS. Is W&M better with financial aid? Or is it that it’s a small SLAC like school and students are self selecting and just more affluent? I would have predicted WM students to have more debt because most students are in state.

What's the OOS proportion of the student body for UVA v. W&M?

Use the SCHEV link that's been discussed for 2+ pages.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was digging into the data. For 2021-2022 grads, roughly the same percentage of the class graduated with student loans— roughly 1/3 of grades. But the average total loans from WM were $21,000 for a BA. For UVA it is $51,000 for a BA. That’s a huge difference.

Why is that? W&M is more expensive in state and less expensive OOS. Is W&M better with financial aid? Or is it that it’s a small SLAC like school and students are self selecting and just more affluent? I would have predicted WM students to have more debt because most students are in state.

What's the OOS proportion of the student body for UVA v. W&M?

Roughly 60/40

https://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/facts-figures/class-profile/?fbclid=IwAR0dYzWk0clec9IXsPlUPS9kY3AF9p9clUeP006hYfoYE0mRhgrGuViRrcE

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many full ride scholarships does W&M give out each year? What about UVA?

Roughly top 10% at W&M get the Monroe scholarship, which covers 100% in-state tuition.
Then there is the W&M scholarship which also cover 100% in-state tuition. There is another initiative for Pell grant receivers also, but not sure how their budget can do it all at the same time with the multiple construction projects. We shall see.

https://news.wm.edu/2022/09/23/wm-commits-to-cover-full-tuition-and-fees-for-all-in-state-pell-grant-recipients/
https://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/costs-aid/scholarship/

NOPE