Anonymous wrote:I have 3 brothers that are all duds. There is probably a thread of mental illness but they were all raised to believe they were better than everyone else. Parents provided nice clothes, cars and furnishings but they are all empty suits with big egos.

There may be mental illness etc ... but at the private school I attended most of the people who ended up as "duds" were average students whose parents were very successful, and the kids had access to a lot of money, newish cars, all the clothes they wanted. Didn't have to work, tended to be able to afford to do drugs and drink more, and had super high opinions of themselves.

Anonymous wrote:What does dud even mean? It seems like living with your parents might say more about the cost of housing than anything else. In many European countries it’s common to live with your parents into your 30s.

OP here. He's in his 40's and doesn't have a job or appear to be looking for one. He sleeps past 10am every day, spends hours just sitting in his car (no clue why) and seems to only leave to pickup takeout. There was a health issue with his dad recently and he had NO IDEA where his mom was or how to get ahold of her even though she has significant dementia and doesn't drive. A neighbor and I were there assisting the dad (we called 911 for him) and he was NO help with the paramedics questions even though he's been living there for probably 6 months now. The neighbor and I knew more than he did. A dud.

I have 3 brothers that are all duds. There is probably a thread of mental illness but they were all raised to believe they were better than everyone else. Parents provided nice clothes, cars and furnishings but they are all empty suits with big egos.

Mental health issue
Drugs
Abuse
Bad parenting—Bad parents can seem like nice people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Basic math: most people are duds.

Beyond that, not sure why you’d expect “nice” people not to raise duds. Being “nice” is just about the most banal existence out there. If that’s the leading descriptor of the people you’re talking about, they’re a white bread mayonnaise sandwich dunked in milk; not surprisingly they raised kids who are boring sacks of milk.

You want kids with guts and purpose and personality and rhythm? Gotta throw in some hot sauce… alcoholic dad with a god complex, two-timing slut for a mom, unemployment and bankruptcy, handsy uncle at Thanksgivings, etc.

But then we'll start talking about the ACE score and how those kids are doomed because of it.

DP. They're not doomed and it's not the score that impacts life outcomes but the trauma represented by the score.

Anonymous wrote:The 1 case I've known up close where this has happened was mental health issues that were not properly addressed as a teen.

Please don't assume that the current state of mental health treatment can fix all problems, even when pursued relentlessly.

Anonymous wrote:Basic math: most people are duds.

Beyond that, not sure why you’d expect “nice” people not to raise duds. Being “nice” is just about the most banal existence out there. If that’s the leading descriptor of the people you’re talking about, they’re a white bread mayonnaise sandwich dunked in milk; not surprisingly they raised kids who are boring sacks of milk.

You want kids with guts and purpose and personality and rhythm? Gotta throw in some hot sauce… alcoholic dad with a god complex, two-timing slut for a mom, unemployment and bankruptcy, handsy uncle at Thanksgivings, etc.

But then we'll start talking about the ACE score and how those kids are doomed because of it.

Basic math: most people are duds.

Beyond that, not sure why you’d expect “nice” people not to raise duds. Being “nice” is just about the most banal existence out there. If that’s the leading descriptor of the people you’re talking about, they’re a white bread mayonnaise sandwich dunked in milk; not surprisingly they raised kids who are boring sacks of milk.

You want kids with guts and purpose and personality and rhythm? Gotta throw in some hot sauce… alcoholic dad with a god complex, two-timing slut for a mom, unemployment and bankruptcy, handsy uncle at Thanksgivings, etc.

What does dud even mean? It seems like living with your parents might say more about the cost of housing than anything else. In many European countries it’s common to live with your parents into your 30s.

Often the one who doesn't launch is the one left holding the bag in terms of the appearance of being the caregiver- because they never moved out/got a job/etc- so they put themselves in that position and now have to be value-add somehow. Yet often they don't, and though it's frustrating- it is often enabled so long by the parents that there is only one outcome. And if there is a relevant diagnosis out there- they aren't looking for it and get angry when assistance is offered.

We have had to have this conversation in my family multiple times about how the least actualized, least reflective, least communicative, least resourceful person is now by default 'the caregiver' who actually does nothing/notices nothing, gets things in the ditch then needs help but won't take it. It is painful. It makes me look at all my own young kids like 'ok which one of you guys is going to pull this sh!t and will I love you enough to recognize it/nip it in the bud if it happens' so it doesn't destroy your relationship with all your siblings.

Noting that I have seen it happen rarely with friends that there is an awesome unpaid caregiver child who has given up their own hopes/dreams to provide care/leads a full life with their family members for whom they are caring- and that they are on top of EVERYTHING and helping keep their loved ones alive, happy and engaged- and still their siblings don't acknowledge or appreciate their hard work. I assure you if that were the case for us, we would appreciate all that... and make sure they are compensated and get respite.

But when you actually aren't helping and your life is a vacation, people don't want to give you 'time off' for another paid vacation in order to get you out of the home so we can actually clean the home/go through paperwork/make fixes/care for the family member/stabilize them periodically though that is what we do to counteract the ill effects of this unwelcome dud caregiving.

Parents like to defend the enmeshed dynamic and there is no fixing it despite all the contrary evidence of the dangerous effects. We just wait periodically for the low-key calls with alarming info to know when to take over. Ironically the aging parents 'need to live with Dudley so we can take care of them' so they refuse to move in with any of the other kids. It's sad all around.

Anonymous wrote:It is a numbers thing. It used to be in large families of 6 or 8 or 10 children one would be a dud.

My husband is one of seven and all seven have been very successful. But in the next generation at least 25% seem to be duds despite great educations.

We see it in my husbands family. The parents are all very successful but many of the kids have accomplished nothing despite good educations. Were they spoiled? Are their parents subsidizing them into their 30’s? We are blessed that our kids are all succeeding on their own and we consider ourselves to be very lucky. Maybe we did something right?

Anonymous wrote:It is a numbers thing. It used to be in large families of 6 or 8 or 10 children one would be a dud.

There's sibling dynamics to support this. Only one sibling can take the loser spot and keep it.

Anonymous wrote:It is a numbers thing. It used to be in large families of 6 or 8 or 10 children one would be a dud.

+1

My DH is from a working class family of 7 kids. 6 turned out very well, one dud. ILs parenting was fine/average. The family feels the root of it was her “getting into a bad crowd” in her teens. But- IDK.

I'm one of four and we all launched and are successful, but the majority of us barely speak to our parents. They were emotionally abusive and played favorites. We couldn't wait to get out of their house.