Anonymous
Post 10/01/2023 14:36     Subject: Education major at an elite school, good or bad?
Anonymous wrote:I couldn't send my kid to a very expensive college for any major, but if I could, I would support my son wanting to get an education degree there. I agree with PPs that experience and a commitment to get better as a teacher matters most for teacher quality, and that an education degree isn't strictly necessary. Education majors take a lot of courses in theory which is interesting but not necessary for being a good teacher. But that doesn't make it useless or a waste of time. They are interesting. And upper level courses don't always make you that much stronger in your content area. I majored in English because I was good at it and then became a teacher. All those upper-level English classes I took did not make me better at teaching in my content area. They were more rigorous, I learned literary theory, and I got exposure to more works of fiction, but that's it. Just like the theory classes an education major takes, I didn't need those to be a good teacher.

All that said, I do think that an aspiring middle school STEM teacher should get a double major because often teachers bounce back and forth between middle school and high school. The difference between lower-level English and upper-level English courses in college is much smaller than the difference between lower-level and upper level STEM courses, and you can often tell the difference between STEM teachers who are really solid in their content area and ones who aren't.


This. I’m a HS STEM teacher who majored in a hard science subject in college. The education courses are a joke compared to college STEM courses.
Anonymous
Post 10/01/2023 14:34     Subject: Education major at an elite school, good or bad?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My son wants to be a middle school teacher. He has high rigor, great grades at a top DMV private. 1550. Dream school is Vanderbilt or similar places. looking at applying as an education major or at a minimum emphasizing education in essays, etc,
All extracurriculars support this: paid jobs at camps, volunteering at an elementary school, head of Best Buddies, paid internship at a Dept of health doing peer education etc.

Do you think applying to elite universities with a strong interest in education helps or hurts one's cause? It's not a popular choose these days (good) but may not be viewed as enough of an aspirational career (potentially bad?... don't these schools mostly want kids who have the raw material to future tech CEOs, etc? Kind of kidding but not.
Thoughts?


Is there a particular reason why he wants to do middle school?

Does he realize that it is by far the hardest set of years to teach?


I think what you meant to say is thank goodness there are smart young men like OPs son who are interested enough in kids and the future to want to teach and work with middle schoolers


Chances are high that OP’s son will do it for a year or two and then quit because the first 3 years are brutal. And that doesn’t help anyone


why is this? because he's male? Because he's smart?


Most teachers don’t make it past 3-5 years. And if he is already thinking of law school, he will probably teach for a max of 3 years and will quit just when he is starting to get good
Anonymous
Post 10/01/2023 13:14     Subject: Education major at an elite school, good or bad?
Does anyone even KNOW what schools their middle school teachers went to? Or if their kids are in MS now, what schools their teachers went to? I sure don't. Still less do I care. In short, no need to go to anything other than cheap in-state school.
Anonymous
Post 10/01/2023 13:13     Subject: Education major at an elite school, good or bad?
Nah I say for education major go to the cheapest possible school.
Anonymous
Post 10/01/2023 09:10     Subject: Education major at an elite school, good or bad?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My son wants to be a middle school teacher. He has high rigor, great grades at a top DMV private. 1550. Dream school is Vanderbilt or similar places. looking at applying as an education major or at a minimum emphasizing education in essays, etc,
All extracurriculars support this: paid jobs at camps, volunteering at an elementary school, head of Best Buddies, paid internship at a Dept of health doing peer education etc.

Do you think applying to elite universities with a strong interest in education helps or hurts one's cause? It's not a popular choose these days (good) but may not be viewed as enough of an aspirational career (potentially bad?... don't these schools mostly want kids who have the raw material to future tech CEOs, etc? Kind of kidding but not.
Thoughts?


Is there a particular reason why he wants to do middle school?

Does he realize that it is by far the hardest set of years to teach?


I think what you meant to say is thank goodness there are smart young men like OPs son who are interested enough in kids and the future to want to teach and work with middle schoolers


Chances are high that OP’s son will do it for a year or two and then quit because the first 3 years are brutal. And that doesn’t help anyone


It will help the kids OP's son taught. Even an inexperienced teacher is better than a substitute teacher which a lot of kids are getting right now. Plus, I know a lot of people who left teaching but are still in education, both private and public sectors, and their teaching experience was great for them.
Anonymous
Post 10/01/2023 09:06     Subject: Education major at an elite school, good or bad?
Anonymous wrote:Why are you encouraging this?
I’m a hs teacher and I think it is best to major in a subject rather than education. You have stronger content knowledge which will make you a better teacher for middle and high school. Education majors are easy and boring.
Teaching cannot be taught through theory. You learn how to teach once you are in the classroom.


Agree. These were my best teachers as well as my kids’.

If he’s so interested in schools of Ed why doesn’t he look at the top 5 and see if he likes those. Like Boston U, where you’re in a classroom teaching your entire junior year.
Anonymous
Post 10/01/2023 08:30     Subject: Education major at an elite school, good or bad?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My son wants to be a middle school teacher. He has high rigor, great grades at a top DMV private. 1550. Dream school is Vanderbilt or similar places. looking at applying as an education major or at a minimum emphasizing education in essays, etc,
All extracurriculars support this: paid jobs at camps, volunteering at an elementary school, head of Best Buddies, paid internship at a Dept of health doing peer education etc.

Do you think applying to elite universities with a strong interest in education helps or hurts one's cause? It's not a popular choose these days (good) but may not be viewed as enough of an aspirational career (potentially bad?... don't these schools mostly want kids who have the raw material to future tech CEOs, etc? Kind of kidding but not.
Thoughts?


Is there a particular reason why he wants to do middle school?

Does he realize that it is by far the hardest set of years to teach?


I think what you meant to say is thank goodness there are smart young men like OPs son who are interested enough in kids and the future to want to teach and work with middle schoolers


Chances are high that OP’s son will do it for a year or two and then quit because the first 3 years are brutal. And that doesn’t help anyone


why is this? because he's male? Because he's smart?
Anonymous
Post 10/01/2023 07:40     Subject: Education major at an elite school, good or bad?
Interesting strategy of trying to get into schools like Vandy with a major like education especially for boys. I guess it could work. And sounds like paying for Vandy is not an issue for you. And given he is a private school kid, he probably wants to teach at private schools where they would love a degree from Vandy.
Anonymous
Post 10/01/2023 07:33     Subject: Education major at an elite school, good or bad?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My son wants to be a middle school teacher. He has high rigor, great grades at a top DMV private. 1550. Dream school is Vanderbilt or similar places. looking at applying as an education major or at a minimum emphasizing education in essays, etc,
All extracurriculars support this: paid jobs at camps, volunteering at an elementary school, head of Best Buddies, paid internship at a Dept of health doing peer education etc.

Do you think applying to elite universities with a strong interest in education helps or hurts one's cause? It's not a popular choose these days (good) but may not be viewed as enough of an aspirational career (potentially bad?... don't these schools mostly want kids who have the raw material to future tech CEOs, etc? Kind of kidding but not.
Thoughts?


Is there a particular reason why he wants to do middle school?

Does he realize that it is by far the hardest set of years to teach?


I think what you meant to say is thank goodness there are smart young men like OPs son who are interested enough in kids and the future to want to teach and work with middle schoolers


Chances are high that OP’s son will do it for a year or two and then quit because the first 3 years are brutal. And that doesn’t help anyone
Anonymous
Post 10/01/2023 07:19     Subject: Re:Education major at an elite school, good or bad?
SESP (School of Education & Social Policy) at Northwestern University is the top program in the country. Vanderbilt's Peabody School is also well respected, but much easier academically.
Anonymous
Post 10/01/2023 07:11     Subject: Re:Education major at an elite school, good or bad?
Anonymous wrote:OP here. So far I'm neither discouraging it nor encouraging it. I doubt he will teach for a 30 year career. More likely he'll end up in graduate school or law school in 10 years. My father took this path and my son knows his grandfather well.
My son has always loved kids. He's a super outgoing, dynamic, funny, charismatic person. He has loved many of his own teachers. He would be a fantastic teacher/coach. I can completely see it.
Finances may eventually come into play eventually as he's not a trust fund kid or anything like that but I'm a firm believer that kids can (even in 2023) explore passions/interests for a season before every life or career decision needs to be made based on the financial return.
We're committed to paying or undergrad (regardless of major). Why not let the kid pursue his passion? I know that neither my husband or I settled into our eventual long-term careers until we were 30.

Anyway, again--> the real point of my post is whether an interest in education will be a positive with admissions (because it's unique) or negative (because it's not viewed as prestigious or high intensity). Clearly not everyone can be a computer science, finance or pre-med major but how does this really play out?


Negative because they they will see through this including the middle school teacher part -signed family of teachers. Nice try.
Anonymous
Post 10/01/2023 06:37     Subject: Education major at an elite school, good or bad?
Anonymous wrote:What are his reasons for wanting to teach middle school? What are the odds he will change his mind in a few years? No way would I pay 85k for an education degree.
Being a teacher is worthwhile but it is a hard job. I’m guessing he has no clue what being a teacher is really like


I’m I agreement. It is a hard job that bleeds into every waking hour. Many leave once the reality of the profession hits.

I’d encourage him to consider another major and then use an alternative certification program to start his teaching experience. He then has that major to fall back on.

I’ve been teaching for decades. More new teachers leave than stay.
Anonymous
Post 10/01/2023 04:58     Subject: Education major at an elite school, good or bad?
I couldn't send my kid to a very expensive college for any major, but if I could, I would support my son wanting to get an education degree there. I agree with PPs that experience and a commitment to get better as a teacher matters most for teacher quality, and that an education degree isn't strictly necessary. Education majors take a lot of courses in theory which is interesting but not necessary for being a good teacher. But that doesn't make it useless or a waste of time. They are interesting. And upper level courses don't always make you that much stronger in your content area. I majored in English because I was good at it and then became a teacher. All those upper-level English classes I took did not make me better at teaching in my content area. They were more rigorous, I learned literary theory, and I got exposure to more works of fiction, but that's it. Just like the theory classes an education major takes, I didn't need those to be a good teacher.

All that said, I do think that an aspiring middle school STEM teacher should get a double major because often teachers bounce back and forth between middle school and high school. The difference between lower-level English and upper-level English courses in college is much smaller than the difference between lower-level and upper level STEM courses, and you can often tell the difference between STEM teachers who are really solid in their content area and ones who aren't.
Anonymous
Post 10/01/2023 03:53     Subject: Re:Education major at an elite school, good or bad?
The college of education at the University of Florida is doing really great work in literacy/ science of reading. The next target area is bringing that to middle school. So that may be an interesting opportunity.

We need more young men in education.
Anonymous
Post 10/01/2023 03:22     Subject: Education major at an elite school, good or bad?
I can see your long term outlook. I’m not sure where he would want to teach, but I know in Virginia I had to get an MT to teach high school. I went to a relatively competitive college but then got that MT degree at VCU because it was cheap. If factor in that if he does want to teach in public schools, he’ll likely need at least a year of grad school to get his license.