Anonymous wrote:The reality is that the kids who end up very successful as adults can do both. They’re very high capacity people.

Most accurate post in this thread.

The most successful (whether it's making money, being a CEO, or whatever) aren't necessarily the best at partying/socializing or school, but usually good to very good at both.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends entirely on your filed.

My kid is getting a science PhD.

Thank God she did not choose a field where success hinges on glad-handing and drinking skills. The ability to make fake small talk and butter up those in the Executive Suite.

Oh sweet summer child. Do you truly think success in academia does not require glad-handing, fake small talk, and the ability to butter up your superiors? Do you not know how hiring and promotion works in academic departments? Better get her working on her social skills or she will be one of the many sad PhDs who does not get tenure. In which case... she will end up working in the business world, where she will need to know how to do glad-handling, fake small talk, and buttering up superiors.

Holy crap, you have no idea how tenure actually works. Tenure-lines are determined before an academic listing is advertised. The lack of tenure is a reflection of the economics of academic, and not a reflection of someone's inability to socialize. Three things matter to get tenure--assuming one was hired into a tenure-track position (which are increasingly rare, again due to market conditions, not due to lack of social skill or talent)--are publishing, teaching, and service. At R1 universities (where I am a tenured professor), your publication record is 95% of tenure. Teaching and service make up 5%. When you publish in top journals, your articles undergo a blind peer review process. It has nothing to do with your ability to schmooze a reviewer. The reviewer is not supposed to know who you are, and if she does, she's not supposed to review the article. When you publish a book for an academic press, again, it's supposed to undergo a blind review. You can't build up a dossier of sufficient peer-reviewed publications based on social skills.
This is not to say that social skills don't matter--of course they do. You may end up sharing a hall with your faculty colleagues for decades, you need to serve on committees, and you need to interact with collaborators and students. But, please, stop insulting other kids who may be incredibly successful following their own paths. And stop talking about fields that you know very little about.

the only skills that matter happen to be the ones my kids have.

Convenient.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, you want your kid to become Jeffrey Epstein rather than Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates?

While I think OPs post is idiotic, I don't think you're quite getting her point. Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates may be nerdy or whatever term you want to use, but they also know how to schmooze, talk to people, manage people, etc. And I THINK that was OPs point. If you spend all your time with your head in books and have zero social skills, it doesn't matter if you're as smart as Bill Gates. Your inability to interact with others will inhibit you. Of course, you don't need to be a frat bro to get those social skills.

Bill Gates doesn't have social skills. He is a smart greedy bully. He made software that his mom sold to her friend at IBM. Then he and his nerd friend hired a sales guy as their #3 to build the company. Bezos is similar. They didn't get their success by sweet talking, they didn't by finding technical and financial angles.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is sad is that OP is proud that his daughter attracted someone successful.

He is mixing that up with BEING someone successful.

Quite a dated and misogynistic perspective.

Pretty sure OP is the mom. Can't imagine a guy using "oh sweet summer child"

I think either way, PP’s point still stands.

The psychology of this post is fascinating.

OP, what is your motivation in posting this? Is there some itch you’re trying to scratch? What response are you hoping for?

Anonymous wrote:What is sad is that OP is proud that his daughter attracted someone successful.

He is mixing that up with BEING someone successful.

Quite a dated and misogynistic perspective.

Pretty sure OP is the mom. Can't imagine a guy using "oh sweet summer child"

Anonymous wrote:So, you want your kid to become Jeffrey Epstein rather than Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates?

While I think OPs post is idiotic, I don't think you're quite getting her point. Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates may be nerdy or whatever term you want to use, but they also know how to schmooze, talk to people, manage people, etc. And I THINK that was OPs point. If you spend all your time with your head in books and have zero social skills, it doesn't matter if you're as smart as Bill Gates. Your inability to interact with others will inhibit you. Of course, you don't need to be a frat bro to get those social skills.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends entirely on your filed.

My kid is getting a science PhD.

Thank God she did not choose a field where success hinges on glad-handing and drinking skills. The ability to make fake small talk and butter up those in the Executive Suite.

But it sounds like you got the flavor of kids you wanted, so it is all good.

Lol. Guess who ends up running things at the university, sweetie? An awful lot of it is about glad handing and unfortunately not about citation counts. It is everywhere!

Sweet Jesus--spoken like someone who has never entered the halls of academia. All the presidents, provosts, deans, etc., at universities--you know, the people who end up "running things at the university--are all PhDs. And at the top colleges, they're all tenured faculty, meaning they are what you would probably classify as "nerds." Presidents of universities are actually faculty members of academic departments who devote their time to institutional service. When they leave the presidency, they return to their professor jobs.
Here's the thing, the mid-level managers that are in your circles and whom in your line of sight seem to run things are not truly the people who are in charge. The people who are actually in charge are the ones who did reasonably well to very well in school, are competent, have great ideas, and the ability to execute them (this often means having good enough social skills). And they often have deep support--whether friends, family, or a network people who believe in them, not necessarily their greek siblings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends entirely on your filed.

My kid is getting a science PhD.

Thank God she did not choose a field where success hinges on glad-handing and drinking skills. The ability to make fake small talk and butter up those in the Executive Suite.

Oh sweet summer child. Do you truly think success in academia does not require glad-handing, fake small talk, and the ability to butter up your superiors? Do you not know how hiring and promotion works in academic departments? Better get her working on her social skills or she will be one of the many sad PhDs who does not get tenure. In which case... she will end up working in the business world, where she will need to know how to do glad-handling, fake small talk, and buttering up superiors.

By insulting someone’s child, you’re showing your own insecurity and lack if social skills

What is sad is that OP is proud that his daughter attracted someone successful.

He is mixing that up with BEING someone successful.

Quite a dated and misogynistic perspective.

I think OP went about this all wrong. In general, it is important for people to work on social skills and everything that goes along with that. It does not mean you have to be a partier and drink all the time, but it also means you can't spend college isolating yourself. Join clubs, make friends, make connections. All those skills are needed in the job market, even if you don't want to be in the business world.

These broad generalizations! Different jobs demand different skills: creative, interpersonal, analytic, attention to detail, and many more. Most jobs require some combination.
Also there are many forms of success, and different ones matter to different people. Also, school isn't life, so some people who don't do great in academics end up successful in analytic jobs, and some people who are not party animals do well in jobs that require interpersonal skills. So great for those people who partied and then did well, and great for those who spent all their time in the library and ended up happy, in whatever field.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends entirely on your filed.

My kid is getting a science PhD.

Thank God she did not choose a field where success hinges on glad-handing and drinking skills. The ability to make fake small talk and butter up those in the Executive Suite.

Oh sweet summer child. Do you truly think success in academia does not require glad-handing, fake small talk, and the ability to butter up your superiors? Do you not know how hiring and promotion works in academic departments? Better get her working on her social skills or she will be one of the many sad PhDs who does not get tenure. In which case... she will end up working in the business world, where she will need to know how to do glad-handling, fake small talk, and buttering up superiors.

This, this, a thousand times this.

NP and I guess I don't get this. I know quite a few PhDs because of my job. Just because they arent the partying type doesn't mean they have no social skills. It seems a bit naive to think the only options are "Greek life partier" and "nerd who has no social skills".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends entirely on your filed.

My kid is getting a science PhD.

Thank God she did not choose a field where success hinges on glad-handing and drinking skills. The ability to make fake small talk and butter up those in the Executive Suite.

Oh sweet summer child. Do you truly think success in academia does not require glad-handing, fake small talk, and the ability to butter up your superiors? Do you not know how hiring and promotion works in academic departments? Better get her working on her social skills or she will be one of the many sad PhDs who does not get tenure. In which case... she will end up working in the business world, where she will need to know how to do glad-handling, fake small talk, and buttering up superiors.

You are calling a tenured professor “sweet summer child.”

So somewhere along the way you missed out on those slick social skills you claim to have passed on to your children.