Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are looking for ways to reject you quickly so they can cut 28,000 applicants into 1,800 admits.

If your scores aren't top notch, and you send them, then you are giving them the definite information they need to reject you.

If your scores aren't top notch, and you don't send them, then you have not given them definite information, whatever they might suspect.

I'd lean towards not sending them if you're not above midpoint for the previous year's 25/75.

Exactly. Then they have to read your essays. I listen to a different podcast not from the Dartmouth admissions Director but from someone else who mentioned that a lot of ivies want the score because it’s an auto reject pile for GPA and Test score They don’t even read anything unless you pass that first stage.

Highly selective schools want you to submit the scores and want you to pay the fee and want you to add to their great application numbers and eventual yield. They want the score bc it’s entered into a data management system (like ptr-Vovid) along with zip code and gpa and school code, for auto sorting.

But if your score is below the 50th percentile mark and you do not have something really special… Not great… Not even normal awards… Something magical, and so unique… It’s a waste of time.

So for those kids if they are below the 50th percentile, I would say no don’t submit. Because it’s true they don’t even read your application if you were below unless there is some other hook

If you do not submit the score, you are automatically put into another pile. Read usually by different people/committee members.

Did you notice strangely a lot more test optional kids got into really good schools last year then kids with perfect stats in your circle?!? Maybe just a private school thing but I think not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was also saying, just send it .. it's better than you think. (which I'm not so sure is true)

I'm looking for more test aware schools. Has anyone else heard of schools moving that way?

I heard that comment too. One way to look at it is that the scores do give admissions offices information, so of course they'd like them. Their 25th-75th percentile range for last year for admitted was 1500/1580, so the midpoint would be 1540. It's true that not submitting a 1530 is probably foolish--it's a great score and would probably only be seen as a positive. But, if a straight-A student with excellent extracurriculars submits a 1200, I can't imagine that that would help their application, and more likely would hurt it. It would be great if admissions offices would tell us to submit everything above a particular score, but that's against their own interests.

But why would a straight A student only score a 1200? That doesn’t make sense unless their school’s 4.0 is useless measure of ability.

Some parents play the IEP game.. extra time for tests, repeat tests, tutoring, etc. to keep them grades up. When the kid bombs a standardized test they go, "oh, he's a poor test taker" and push the kid to repeat the test multiple times to crack that 1400 benchmark..

1400 not hard to crack for mediocre student over 2-3x taking test.
1500 harder for Mediocre student

1400 is 95th percentile
1500 is 98th percentile

"Mediocre students" aren't going to hit either no matter how many times they try

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are looking for ways to reject you quickly so they can cut 28,000 applicants into 1,800 admits.

If your scores aren't top notch, and you send them, then you are giving them the definite information they need to reject you.

If your scores aren't top notch, and you don't send them, then you have not given them definite information, whatever they might suspect.

I'd lean towards not sending them if you're not above midpoint for the previous year's 25/75.

Exactly. Then they have to read your essays. I listen to a different podcast not from the Dartmouth admissions Director but from someone else who mentioned that a lot of ivies want the score because it’s an auto reject pile for GPA and Test score They don’t even read anything unless you pass that first stage.

They aren't reading all the test optional essays. They will also cut you if you're not the top recalculated GPA they have in however they define your region and don't meet any other preferred characteristics. It's not like not having a SAT test score makes you a holistic candidate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was also saying, just send it .. it's better than you think. (which I'm not so sure is true)

I'm looking for more test aware schools. Has anyone else heard of schools moving that way?

I heard that comment too. One way to look at it is that the scores do give admissions offices information, so of course they'd like them. Their 25th-75th percentile range for last year for admitted was 1500/1580, so the midpoint would be 1540. It's true that not submitting a 1530 is probably foolish--it's a great score and would probably only be seen as a positive. But, if a straight-A student with excellent extracurriculars submits a 1200, I can't imagine that that would help their application, and more likely would hurt it. It would be great if admissions offices would tell us to submit everything above a particular score, but that's against their own interests.

But why would a straight A student only score a 1200? That doesn’t make sense unless their school’s 4.0 is useless measure of ability.

Some parents play the IEP game.. extra time for tests, repeat tests, tutoring, etc. to keep them grades up. When the kid bombs a standardized test they go, "oh, he's a poor test taker" and push the kid to repeat the test multiple times to crack that 1400 benchmark..

This is fairly common

Anonymous wrote:Test Blind = We don’t care what you got.

Test Optional = Send scores if you feel they help you, but it’s not the prime determinant of admission.

Test Aware = We would like to see the scores but in today’s market we are not going to force you. Scores have some weight.

Test Required = Scores are an important part of applicant review.



Anything beyond what the school actually says publicly is just your brain talking to your brain.

We’ve heard of exactly 1 test aware school. The thread is asking if there are others. Anything else is your brain talking to your brain

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was also saying, just send it .. it's better than you think. (which I'm not so sure is true)

I'm looking for more test aware schools. Has anyone else heard of schools moving that way?

I heard that comment too. One way to look at it is that the scores do give admissions offices information, so of course they'd like them. Their 25th-75th percentile range for last year for admitted was 1500/1580, so the midpoint would be 1540. It's true that not submitting a 1530 is probably foolish--it's a great score and would probably only be seen as a positive. But, if a straight-A student with excellent extracurriculars submits a 1200, I can't imagine that that would help their application, and more likely would hurt it. It would be great if admissions offices would tell us to submit everything above a particular score, but that's against their own interests.

But why would a straight A student only score a 1200? That doesn’t make sense unless their school’s 4.0 is useless measure of ability.

Some parents play the IEP game.. extra time for tests, repeat tests, tutoring, etc. to keep them grades up. When the kid bombs a standardized test they go, "oh, he's a poor test taker" and push the kid to repeat the test multiple times to crack that 1400 benchmark..

1400 not hard to crack for mediocre student over 2-3x taking test.
1500 harder for Mediocre student

Anonymous wrote:They are looking for ways to reject you quickly so they can cut 28,000 applicants into 1,800 admits.

If your scores aren't top notch, and you send them, then you are giving them the definite information they need to reject you.

If your scores aren't top notch, and you don't send them, then you have not given them definite information, whatever they might suspect.

I'd lean towards not sending them if you're not above midpoint for the previous year's 25/75.

Exactly. Then they have to read your essays. I listen to a different podcast not from the Dartmouth admissions Director but from someone else who mentioned that a lot of ivies want the score because it’s an auto reject pile for GPA and Test score They don’t even read anything unless you pass that first stage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was also saying, just send it .. it's better than you think. (which I'm not so sure is true)

I'm looking for more test aware schools. Has anyone else heard of schools moving that way?

I heard that comment too. One way to look at it is that the scores do give admissions offices information, so of course they'd like them. Their 25th-75th percentile range for last year for admitted was 1500/1580, so the midpoint would be 1540. It's true that not submitting a 1530 is probably foolish--it's a great score and would probably only be seen as a positive. But, if a straight-A student with excellent extracurriculars submits a 1200, I can't imagine that that would help their application, and more likely would hurt it. It would be great if admissions offices would tell us to submit everything above a particular score, but that's against their own interests.

But why would a straight A student only score a 1200? That doesn’t make sense unless their school’s 4.0 is useless measure of ability.

In 80-90% of high schools in the US, earning a 4.0 is not that hard. My niece was valedictorian of her parochial school and earned a 31 on her ACT.

Anonymous wrote:a lot of colleges that said test optional really meant test blind. if you send it, we'll look at it. if you don't, we won't consider it.

now some colleges may be moving to a test optional policy that is more test aware. meaning, this isn't Georgetown and you dont have to send in your score, but if you don't we may draw our own conclusions about that

This. I was told a kid from a good school district or private with means --they are going to assume their scores weren't good enough to send in.

Our CC joked that nobody is [/i]not [i]sending in a 35-36 ACT, or 1580 SAT. It will be assumed you bombed it.

Also, with such grade inflation and professors/universities continually noting students are arriving less and less prepared, having both ACT/SAT and GPA weeds out grade inflation to a degree---if you submit you got all 4-5s on your AP exams, even stronger.

Anonymous wrote:I recently heard a podcast where the Dartmouth dean of admissions said they were moving from test optional to test aware. Basically saying, yeah, of course we'll notice if you don't send in a score and if you're coming from a UMC high school. That was the tone I was picking up. He was also saying, just send it .. it's better than you think. (which I'm not so sure is true)

I'm looking for more test aware schools. Has anyone else heard of schools moving that way?

Good. The covid nonsense must stop. (but of course we know Who and Why the AOs want to keep TO in place)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was also saying, just send it .. it's better than you think. (which I'm not so sure is true)

I'm looking for more test aware schools. Has anyone else heard of schools moving that way?

I heard that comment too. One way to look at it is that the scores do give admissions offices information, so of course they'd like them. Their 25th-75th percentile range for last year for admitted was 1500/1580, so the midpoint would be 1540. It's true that not submitting a 1530 is probably foolish--it's a great score and would probably only be seen as a positive. But, if a straight-A student with excellent extracurriculars submits a 1200, I can't imagine that that would help their application, and more likely would hurt it. It would be great if admissions offices would tell us to submit everything above a particular score, but that's against their own interests.

But why would a straight A student only score a 1200? That doesn’t make sense unless their school’s 4.0 is useless measure of ability.

Some parents play the IEP game.. extra time for tests, repeat tests, tutoring, etc. to keep them grades up. When the kid bombs a standardized test they go, "oh, he's a poor test taker" and push the kid to repeat the test multiple times to crack that 1400 benchmark..

Anonymous wrote:Test Blind = We don’t care what you got.

Test Optional = Send scores if you feel they help you, but it’s not the prime determinant of admission.

Test Aware = We would like to see the scores but in today’s market we are not going to force you. Scores have some weight.

Test Required = Scores are an important part of applicant review.

Anything beyond what the school actually says publicly is just your brain talking to your brain.

I would interpret these differently--maybe it's just my brain talking to my brain, but it has seemed to predict who makes the shifts in language from "optional" to "aware" --

Test Optional: Scores may be really important or not (see what we put in the check box on the CDS for the importance of SAT scores as well as percent of students submitting scores for more info). Not always, but often schools who have a prior history of high SAT scores tend to have higher percentage of students reporting; schools that had a prior history of lower SAT scores tend to have lower percentage of students reporting. The former are the ones who are more likely to be talking about becoming test aware now.

Test Aware: We are one of the former test optional schools who decided to be more forthright--we're one of the schools who when we said test optional we meant if you have a ton of other great qualities we particularly want we'd rather you not send in your low test scores so they don't stand in your way of being accepted, but if you're just a regular applicant and really want to get in we want to see your scores. Oh and we don't mind if a bunch of people apply with no test scores that we don't accept because it helps our yield.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was also saying, just send it .. it's better than you think. (which I'm not so sure is true)

I'm looking for more test aware schools. Has anyone else heard of schools moving that way?

I heard that comment too. One way to look at it is that the scores do give admissions offices information, so of course they'd like them. Their 25th-75th percentile range for last year for admitted was 1500/1580, so the midpoint would be 1540. It's true that not submitting a 1530 is probably foolish--it's a great score and would probably only be seen as a positive. But, if a straight-A student with excellent extracurriculars submits a 1200, I can't imagine that that would help their application, and more likely would hurt it. It would be great if admissions offices would tell us to submit everything above a particular score, but that's against their own interests.

But why would a straight A student only score a 1200? That doesn’t make sense unless their school’s 4.0 is useless measure of ability.

Correct. For most (if not all) schools, this is the case.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was also saying, just send it .. it's better than you think. (which I'm not so sure is true)

I'm looking for more test aware schools. Has anyone else heard of schools moving that way?

I heard that comment too. One way to look at it is that the scores do give admissions offices information, so of course they'd like them. Their 25th-75th percentile range for last year for admitted was 1500/1580, so the midpoint would be 1540. It's true that not submitting a 1530 is probably foolish--it's a great score and would probably only be seen as a positive. But, if a straight-A student with excellent extracurriculars submits a 1200, I can't imagine that that would help their application, and more likely would hurt it. It would be great if admissions offices would tell us to submit everything above a particular score, but that's against their own interests.

But why would a straight A student only score a 1200? That doesn’t make sense unless their school’s 4.0 is useless measure of ability.

NP. First, achievement and ability are two different things, and neither GPA nor test scores purport to measure ability, although in a fuzzier way, having ability certainly makes higher GPA and higher scores more possible.

Second, GPA is not, nor ever will be, a standardized metric, not even within the same high school. Classes and teachers are too different.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was also saying, just send it .. it's better than you think. (which I'm not so sure is true)

I'm looking for more test aware schools. Has anyone else heard of schools moving that way?

I heard that comment too. One way to look at it is that the scores do give admissions offices information, so of course they'd like them. Their 25th-75th percentile range for last year for admitted was 1500/1580, so the midpoint would be 1540. It's true that not submitting a 1530 is probably foolish--it's a great score and would probably only be seen as a positive. But, if a straight-A student with excellent extracurriculars submits a 1200, I can't imagine that that would help their application, and more likely would hurt it. It would be great if admissions offices would tell us to submit everything above a particular score, but that's against their own interests.

But why would a straight A student only score a 1200? That doesn’t make sense unless their school’s 4.0 is useless measure of ability.