Anonymous wrote:My DD is in middle school and I’m finding she needs lots of help navigating the mean girls at her school. I didn’t get involved initially when she hung out with some of these kids until, yes, things happened at our house (which left my kid in tears) and at one particular girl’s house, all under the watchful eye of her mean girl mother. So now, I’m involved, and I do control access to my kid, and I don’t apologize for it. This kid is toxic, she causes drama everywhere she goes and the mother supports it. As she gets older and is better adept at handling bullies like her, I won’t worry as much.

I think another spin on this is sometimes our kids just don't have the tools or judgment yet to get out of these unhealthy friendships. I do not think it is healthy to label other kids (who will change and grow) or their parents (when really you don't know what's going on...sorry but you don't). Speaking about it that way says more about you than the other kid and mom in the end.

Listen, observe, ask questions that get your kid thinking, and just repeat the same themes. Friends should make you feel good. It's normal to have disagreements but it shouldn't be most of the time. Friends are people you should feel comfortable and relaxed around. What are you enjoying about being friends with X. You are an amazing person and you deserve to have friends who bring out the best in you. There is never any problem just choosing to be alone rather than being with a friend who makes you feel bad. And on and on.

They will figure it out themselves and they need to and should figure it out themselves without you controlling access and banning certain friends.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter was friends with two girls all through ES. Out of the blue, one mom started excluding my DD even though all three girls still get along splendidly in MS. She’s also started refusing all hangouts initiated by us. DD hasn’t said anything but feels the sting and has asked why that mom is doing that.

So yes, mean moms! She also be crazy lol (say this based on what I know of her but suppressed over the years so girls could be friends)

Sometimes one kid thinks they are still great friends while another needs some space. This is common in middle school. Friend groups change, even when they were close for years. It sounds more like that than the mom excluding anyone. My daughter started middle school this year and moms aren’t organizing any of their social outings. We only drive after they coordinate.

+1

This is also what I have seen- and my daughter has been on both sides of it, at various times. The girls are the ones making the plans- not the moms. Middle school is a common time for friendships & friend groups to change. If anything, the moms were probably padding things along in elementary (often forcing the girls to invite girls they were no longer friends with- to avoid hurt feelings)….and have now stopped doing so in middle school, as the girls gain independence.

OP here-yes, I’ve seen this and I have also seen moms being mean and purposely cruel to my DD.

NP. Op you’ve seen more than one mom be mean and “purposely cruel” to your daughter. What does this mean exactly?

And before anyone accuses me of being a mean mom, my kids are boys. Just curious how someone could witness something on several occasions and know intent. If it was that malicious, why didn’t you intervene?

My DD is in middle school and I’m finding she needs lots of help navigating the mean girls at her school. I didn’t get involved initially when she hung out with some of these kids until, yes, things happened at our house (which left my kid in tears) and at one particular girl’s house, all under the watchful eye of her mean girl mother. So now, I’m involved, and I do control access to my kid, and I don’t apologize for it. This kid is toxic, she causes drama everywhere she goes and the mother supports it. As she gets older and is better adept at handling bullies like her, I won’t worry as much.

Anonymous wrote:I haven't seen this (mean moms). I've had to exclude a kid when everyone was content and said they didn't want to include said kid. I have made the group include kids before, and they reached a point where they couldn't do it anymore. If you think I'm social engineering, I'm actually pleading the case to include but middle schoolers are stubborn.

When it comes to single parents, I advocate even more for those kids because it often is single parent, single child and I know they need the groups. Some thrive at being included and some are their own worst enemy, just like kids living with both parents.

It's kind of the perfect time to encourage inviting the difficult kids as you can teach kids to advocate for the preferred behaviors (like not insulting friends). Give those kids a chance to be someone that is included and learn from their mistakes.

+1 This is me exactly

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is always a reason and sometimes it’s with the excluded and sometimes it’s with the excluders. Every situation is different, but a child being excluded isn’t ALWAYS the innocent victim of mean girls like many times these threads imply. Sometimes these kids are bad friends or have major personality issues and the other kids just don’t have the skills to manage it in a respectful way so they avoid or exclude. Only in childhood are we forced to be friends with people by others.

And yes sometimes it is bullying or dominating types asserting their power.

I've never seen what you're talking about. It's almost always a jealous friend doing the excluding. They are threatened by others and want certain friends all to themselves so they try to exclude the competition as they see a friend trying to pull away. Insecurity of the excluders is the main issue.

NP.

This stuff can be complicated. I am aware of two situations where girls were iced out in middle school. In both cases, the girls were awful. Lying, not kind, pitting friends against each other. Eventually others in the group are just done. Agree with above, the kids don't have the skills to manage it in a respectful way. Which sucks. And in both cases, the mothers were pretty clueless. Some of these girls are really damn good at showing one face to adults/parents and they act a completely different way to peers.

I agree with this PP it can be all sorts of reasons and yes some are just the excluder and is flat out mean and yes in middle school a lot is based on superficial things like weight, looks, status, and clothes.

I haven't seen this (mean moms). I've had to exclude a kid when everyone was content and said they didn't want to include said kid. I have made the group include kids before, and they reached a point where they couldn't do it anymore. If you think I'm social engineering, I'm actually pleading the case to include but middle schoolers are stubborn.

When it comes to single parents, I advocate even more for those kids because it often is single parent, single child and I know they need the groups. Some thrive at being included and some are their own worst enemy, just like kids living with both parents.

It's kind of the perfect time to encourage inviting the difficult kids as you can teach kids to advocate for the preferred behaviors (like not insulting friends). Give those kids a chance to be someone that is included and learn from their mistakes.

Anonymous wrote:There is always a reason and sometimes it’s with the excluded and sometimes it’s with the excluders. Every situation is different, but a child being excluded isn’t ALWAYS the innocent victim of mean girls like many times these threads imply. Sometimes these kids are bad friends or have major personality issues and the other kids just don’t have the skills to manage it in a respectful way so they avoid or exclude. Only in childhood are we forced to be friends with people by others.

And yes sometimes it is bullying or dominating types asserting their power.

I've never seen what you're talking about. It's almost always a jealous friend doing the excluding. They are threatened by others and want certain friends all to themselves so they try to exclude the competition as they see a friend trying to pull away. Insecurity of the excluders is the main issue.

There is always a reason and sometimes it’s with the excluded and sometimes it’s with the excluders. Every situation is different, but a child being excluded isn’t ALWAYS the innocent victim of mean girls like many times these threads imply. Sometimes these kids are bad friends or have major personality issues and the other kids just don’t have the skills to manage it in a respectful way so they avoid or exclude. Only in childhood are we forced to be friends with people by others.

And yes sometimes it is bullying or dominating types asserting their power.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is your kid excluded? There is usually a reason. Is it behavior? Is it personality?

No there's not always a reason. Jeesh. You sound like a mean mom!

+1 Especially when the "reason" is all too often a personality defect with the excluder.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yuck, I’m sorry that you are dealing with this! This has not been my experience at all- 3 kids currently in 7th,9th,10th grades. Most of the kids seem to choose their own friends by 5th/6th grades and the parents don’t have much to do with it anymore.

That said, I don’t doubt there are instances of this. What exactly is going on? What is this mom doing?

You lucked out. There are psychotic mothers out there and they are devious and manipulative. Some are successful at picking friends for their usually homely girls luring them with great parties in their basement that had everything a teen would need. . By high school the mom is organizing alcohol parties and allowing guests sneaking out to hook up with guys. There were three of them and two were my daughters friends.

Or hit on their dd's teenage male friends!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is your kid excluded? There is usually a reason. Is it behavior? Is it personality?

It's almost always income and status related. And I know you know it.

No. It’s about who’s popular, who’s attractive, who’s socially advanced, who knows what to wear.

If you have a child who is socially very awkward and maybe has a weight problem, bad hair, she would always be an outsider no matter how rich her parents might be. Because to these psycho moms appearance is everything

Looks and wearing what's cool are forms of status.

Anonymous wrote:The moms are mean in MS - meaner and more intentional in their cruelty.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is your kid excluded? There is usually a reason. Is it behavior? Is it personality?

It's almost always income and status related. And I know you know it.

No. It’s about who’s popular, who’s attractive, who’s socially advanced, who knows what to wear.

If you have a child who is socially very awkward and maybe has a weight problem, bad hair, she would always be an outsider no matter how rich her parents might be. Because to these psycho moms appearance is everything

Anonymous wrote:Yuck, I’m sorry that you are dealing with this! This has not been my experience at all- 3 kids currently in 7th,9th,10th grades. Most of the kids seem to choose their own friends by 5th/6th grades and the parents don’t have much to do with it anymore.

That said, I don’t doubt there are instances of this. What exactly is going on? What is this mom doing?

You lucked out. There are psychotic mothers out there and they are devious and manipulative. Some are successful at picking friends for their usually homely girls luring them with great parties in their basement that had everything a teen would need. . By high school the mom is organizing alcohol parties and allowing guests sneaking out to hook up with guys. There were three of them and two were my daughters friends.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is your kid excluded? There is usually a reason. Is it behavior? Is it personality?

It's almost always income and status related. And I know you know it.

I am the writer of this quote and I dont know that but if true then that may be the reason. There is always a reason.

Your kid could live on the wrong side of the tracks. The weird thing is that kids especially in middle school like who they like.

Do the girls communicate with the op's daughter during school hours then exclude her after school and on weekends? Then I would say it's mom but otherwise it's the kids. There are plenty of kids I would love for my childrento still hang out with. They don't because they have who they want to be friends with.

One of my girls is really shy and quiet. Her friends dropped her because she is shy and quiet. That was the reason so my job is to coach her to engage more when with her friends. Even kids recognize when they are the only ones coming up with things to do or carrying a conversation. Its also my role to teach her how friends make us feel, a friend would never have you change who you are.