Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, you mention "lifestyle," so I'll stick to that. But "class" (a term I find kinda gross, but whatever) of course covers more than that -- most importantly values.

Imho MC covers almost everyone in the DMV. If you are UC your home is most likely gated and you don't need any wage income. If you are LC, your lifestyle probably includes needing assistance -- for example, I have friends who work really hard but still need Medicaid.

MC is everyone else. They live, like I said above, pretty much everywhere around here. They drive all kinds of cars, some, like DH, hate spending on cars (DH has a 14 year old Chevy Blazer), but many are weirdly class conscious and buy expensive, new cars every few years to telegraph -- I don't know, something. Think: All of those Porsche Cayennes. As far as kids' activities go, it's the MC that is obsessed with Ivies, SLACs, etc -- so most (well, at least parents who actually parent their kids) focus on kids' activities that will help them get ahead on college apps, socially, etc. This is super apparent with all of the posts here on DCUM about this.

I mean ... MC is incredibly broad (shrinking as it may be).

Totally bs drivel. OP meant true middle class people in the DMV, I would say households earning less that 250k HHI. I have a net worth of 8 million at 49 and will continue to work another 12 yrs, I am not UC but I am realistic enough to understand that I am not MC either, just because I work.

Ok .. so you know you aren't UC, and with a "net worth of 8 million at 49" (lol) you definitely aren't lc, and yet here you are going on about "I am not MC either, just because I work" ... so what on earth do you think you are?

This is what I meant about the MC being weirdly class conscious, lol. Being lumped in with people earn "less than 250k HHI" sets you off into a tizzy. Lol.

No but the life of a family of 4 where the two parents work and make 120k is much different than the Biglaw partner who makes 1.5-2.5 million. Biglaw partner is not UC yet either (although may be someday) but the lifestyle is not at all the same. In fact I doubt they have much if anything in common.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, you mention "lifestyle," so I'll stick to that. But "class" (a term I find kinda gross, but whatever) of course covers more than that -- most importantly values.

Imho MC covers almost everyone in the DMV. If you are UC your home is most likely gated and you don't need any wage income. If you are LC, your lifestyle probably includes needing assistance -- for example, I have friends who work really hard but still need Medicaid.

MC is everyone else. They live, like I said above, pretty much everywhere around here. They drive all kinds of cars, some, like DH, hate spending on cars (DH has a 14 year old Chevy Blazer), but many are weirdly class conscious and buy expensive, new cars every few years to telegraph -- I don't know, something. Think: All of those Porsche Cayennes. As far as kids' activities go, it's the MC that is obsessed with Ivies, SLACs, etc -- so most (well, at least parents who actually parent their kids) focus on kids' activities that will help them get ahead on college apps, socially, etc. This is super apparent with all of the posts here on DCUM about this.

I mean ... MC is incredibly broad (shrinking as it may be).

Totally bs drivel. OP meant true middle class people in the DMV, I would say households earning less that 250k HHI. I have a net worth of 8 million at 49 and will continue to work another 12 yrs, I am not UC but I am realistic enough to understand that I am not MC either, just because I work.

Ok .. so you know you aren't UC, and with a "net worth of 8 million at 49" (lol) you definitely aren't lc, and yet here you are going on about "I am not MC either, just because I work" ... so what on earth do you think you are?

This is what I meant about the MC being weirdly class conscious, lol. Being lumped in with people earn "less than 250k HHI" sets you off into a tizzy. Lol.

Anonymous wrote:If we go with approximately the middle of the middle class income distribution - say $120K for a family of 4 - I think the corresponding lifestyle is:

- home ownership, but no major renovations
- 2 cars with loans, buys cars used
- public school
- No issues covering monthly groceries, utilities; good insurance through work
- 1 vacation in driving distance each summer, vacation with flights every 3 years or so
- School sports, school music programs but minimal to no extra private lessons or club programs
- Savings to support moderate emergencies (new appliance, car repair) but not $10K+ expenses. No investments outside 401K and 529
- Minimal college savings; not enough to do 4 years at state flagship for both kids without loans
- Can buy new clothes, shoes as needed but shopping sales / TJ Maxx

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What Middle Class in DMV Means to Me:

1. You live in Burke. One parent commutes into a job near L'Enfant Plaza, the other has a local job like teacher or nurse.

2. You live in a townhouse zoned for Lake Braddock even though you wish you could afford West Springfield. (Even though you could afford a SFH in North Springfield, you would never.)

3. You can afford to visit the doctor when sick and go to the emergency room when needed, even if inwardly you grump about the co-pays. Everyone has access to dental care and orthodontia, if needed.

4. Your big summer entertainment is a local pool membership. You visit family on vacation and sometimes you go to the beach, like OBX or Florida if a family member has a condo down there.

At some point you will splurge on a big overseas vacation, maybe Paris to reward the kids for getting a 4 on the AP French exam. (Realistically, with college costs looming, it will probably be Montreal.)

5. Your kids know can go to any in-state school and get help from you, but they will need to take out loans totaling 50k or less.

6. Your kids work from the age of 14--lifeguard, babysitting, camp counselor, etc. This is for pocket money like going out with friends and trendy clothes. You pay for all their school fees.

7. You have two crappy cars, which you increase to three when the oldest gets their license and needs to drive to their job and extracurriculars.

8. You and your spouse are able to save for retirement and will have a comfortable retirement, possibly moving to a lower COL area after the last kid finishes college.

9. You hope that your efforts will lead to your kids jumping up a social class to the Upper Middle Class, where they will join country clubs, drive luxury vehicles, vacation abroad, take up skiing, and buy a McMansion in Falls Church City.

I would agree with all except 9. I don't think most MC care if their kids go up a social class. They more want them to stay in the MC--it's a good life.

Anonymous wrote:What Middle Class in DMV Means to Me:

1. You live in Burke. One parent commutes into a job near L'Enfant Plaza, the other has a local job like teacher or nurse.

2. You live in a townhouse zoned for Lake Braddock even though you wish you could afford West Springfield. (Even though you could afford a SFH in North Springfield, you would never.)

3. You can afford to visit the doctor when sick and go to the emergency room when needed, even if inwardly you grump about the co-pays. Everyone has access to dental care and orthodontia, if needed.

4. Your big summer entertainment is a local pool membership. You visit family on vacation and sometimes you go to the beach, like OBX or Florida if a family member has a condo down there.

At some point you will splurge on a big overseas vacation, maybe Paris to reward the kids for getting a 4 on the AP French exam. (Realistically, with college costs looming, it will probably be Montreal.)

5. Your kids know can go to any in-state school and get help from you, but they will need to take out loans totaling 50k or less.

6. Your kids work from the age of 14--lifeguard, babysitting, camp counselor, etc. This is for pocket money like going out with friends and trendy clothes. You pay for all their school fees.

7. You have two crappy cars, which you increase to three when the oldest gets their license and needs to drive to their job and extracurriculars.

8. You and your spouse are able to save for retirement and will have a comfortable retirement, possibly moving to a lower COL area after the last kid finishes college.

9. You hope that your efforts will lead to your kids jumping up a social class to the Upper Middle Class, where they will join country clubs, drive luxury vehicles, vacation abroad, take up skiing, and buy a McMansion in Falls Church City.

Anonymous wrote:Class is real and in many ways getting more entrenched than it's ever been before. I see the classism on DCUM all the time, the NGO no profit worker making sub 100k sneering at West Virginia Trump voters and people are definitely assuming a new kind of class system based on political values.

The other major issue is that the middle class is breaking apart. Compared to 30 or 40 years ago, there's far more people in the UMC now, but there's also more and more people in the LMC, with the true middle middle class being hollowed out. That explains why competition for things like close in housing and education costs have soared, because there's many more UMC people chasing after the same basket of goods. This is an excellent overview of how socio-economic groups of people have veered apart into winners and losers rather than a stronger central that is neither one nor the other, aka middle class: https://www.liberalpatriot.com/p/not-your-fathers-middle-class

Why this is relevant is because it absolutely redefines what middle class means. For example, for a long time I lived in another country where the average citizen was relatively poor but no one called the middle class "rich" because they were not. They may have been the top 5-10% economically but being middle class was completely separate from being in the middle 50%, and that is what the US is drifting to. Think Victorian Britain too, "middle class" was the top 10% of British society outside the top 1% aka aristocracy. That's why most of the descriptions on here reflect what the typical lifestyle is for what is, economically speaking, the more affluent quarter of America's population. It's still middle class, and it's still the top 25%.

Anonymous wrote:With inflation, housing costs, etc-I think we (collective society) will reevaluate (again) what middle class looks like for people. People who consider themselves MC are starting to be priced out of travel (hotels and flights are up) and eating out. And entertainment like concerts and the performing arts. They are being priced out of neighborhoods with decent schools. And they are reevaluating college choices bc costs are astronomical. Some people might argue that these things have always been reserved for only the UMC.

The median income of middle-class households in 2020 was 50% greater than in 1970 ($90,131 vs. $59,934), as measured in 2020 dollars. These gains were realized slowly, but for the most part steadily, with the exception of the period from 2000 to 2010, the so-called “lost decade,” when incomes fell across the board.

Anonymous wrote:With inflation, housing costs, etc-I think we (collective society) will reevaluate (again) what middle class looks like for people. People who consider themselves MC are starting to be priced out of travel (hotels and flights are up) and eating out. And entertainment like concerts and the performing arts. They are being priced out of neighborhoods with decent schools. And they are reevaluating college choices bc costs are astronomical. Some people might argue that these things have always been reserved for only the UMC.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we go with approximately the middle of the middle class income distribution - say $120K for a family of 4 - I think the corresponding lifestyle is:

- home ownership, but no major renovations
- 2 cars with loans, buys cars used
- public school
- No issues covering monthly groceries, utilities; good insurance through work
- 1 vacation in driving distance each summer, vacation with flights every 3 years or so
- School sports, school music programs but minimal to no extra private lessons or club programs
- Savings to support moderate emergencies (new appliance, car repair) but not $10K+ expenses. No investments outside 401K and 529
- Minimal college savings; not enough to do 4 years at state flagship for both kids without loans
- Can buy new clothes, shoes as needed but shopping sales / TJ Maxx

This sounds the most accurate and realistic.