Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 13:45     Subject: W&M in WSJ Rankings
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:W&M has a strong alumni network and high graduation rates. For in-state residents, the tuition is a fantastic deal. They get a private school education for a public school price.

WSJ rankings seem to be the least useful when comparing to US News or Niche.

folderol


The bolded is such nonsense; I always laugh whenever I read this.


Except it’s not. I had a kid transfer from WM to UVA. The classes and professors are far superior WM. This isn’t to say he doesn’t love UVA, but the classes are huge (even as a junior) and not nearly as engaging/in depth.

WM will always get knocked down in the rankings because it competes with large, national universities that have the capacity to do a lot more research (which, personally, I always found to be an odd metric at the undergraduate level).

In terms of ROI, it’s also a problematic metric. A number of law schools dumped USNWR over the weight given to ROI because a lot of their students go on to very prestigious internships or clerkships after law school.


Well, why did he transfer, then? lol


Trying to fix this reply.

Because is likes to party. He wanted big football, basketball and a more robust Greek system.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 13:43     Subject: W&M in WSJ Rankings
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:W&M has a strong alumni network and high graduation rates. For in-state residents, the tuition is a fantastic deal. They get a private school education for a public school price.

WSJ rankings seem to be the least useful when comparing to US News or Niche.

folderol


The bolded is such nonsense; I always laugh whenever I read this. [/quote

Except it’s not. I had a kid transfer from WM to UVA. The classes and professors are far superior WM. This isn’t to say he doesn’t love UVA, but the classes are huge (even as a junior) and not nearly as engaging/in depth.

WM will always get knocked down in the rankings because it competes with large, national universities that have the capacity to do a lot more research (which, personally, I always found to be an odd metric at the undergraduate level).

In terms of ROI, it’s also a problematic metric. A number of law schools dumped USNWR over the weight given to ROI because a lot of their students go on to very prestigious internships or clerkships after law school.


Well, why did he transfer, then? lol


Because is likes to party. He wanted big football, basketball and a more robust Greek system.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 11:52     Subject: W&M in WSJ Rankings
I’m really impressed that Michigan and Arizona State are ranked so highly in undergraduate teaching. Huge schools that still offer a great learning environment for tens of thousands of students.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 11:48     Subject: W&M in WSJ Rankings
Duke is not in the top ten in the listing above.

Top 20 schools for undergraduate teaching:

Elon University

Elon, NC
#1
in
Best Undergraduate Teaching
$42,241
6,302
(fall 2021)


Brown University

Providence, RI
#2
in
Best Undergraduate Teaching
$65,146
7,349
(fall 2021)


Princeton University

Princeton, NJ
#3
in
Best Undergraduate Teaching (tie)
$57,410
5,321
(fall 2021)




Rice University


Houston, TX
#3
in
Best Undergraduate Teaching (tie)
$54,960
4,247
(fall 2021)


Boston College

Chestnut Hill, MA
#5
in
Best Undergraduate Teaching (tie)
$64,176
9,532
(fall 2021)


Dartmouth College

Hanover, NH
#5
in
Best Undergraduate Teaching (tie)
$62,430
4,556
(fall 2021)



Georgia State University

Atlanta, GA
#7
in
Best Undergraduate Teaching (tie)
$29,306
(out-of-state)
$10,268
(in-state)
28,990
(fall 2021)


William & Mary

Williamsburg, VA
#7
in
Best Undergraduate Teaching (tie)
$46,625
(out-of-state)
$23,970
(in-state)
6,543
(fall 2021)


University of Maryland, Baltimore County

Baltimore, MD
#9
in
Best Undergraduate Teaching (tie)
$29,370
(out-of-state)
$12,606
(in-state)
10,835
(fall 2021)



University of Notre Dame

Notre Dame, IN
#9
in
Best Undergraduate Teaching (tie)
$60,301
8,973
(fall 2021)


Duke University

Durham, NC
#11
in
Best Undergraduate Teaching
$63,054
6,883
(fall 2021)


Gonzaga University

Spokane, WA
#12
in
Best Undergraduate Teaching (tie)
$50,735
4,986
(fall 2021)



Marquette University

Milwaukee, WI
#12
in
Best Undergraduate Teaching (tie)
$46,670
7,660
(fall 2021)


Loyola Marymount University


Los Angeles, CA
#14
in
Best Undergraduate Teaching (tie)
$55,441
7,127
(fall 2021)


Santa Clara University

Santa Clara, CA
#14
in
Best Undergraduate Teaching (tie)
$57,534
5,895
(fall 2021)



Baylor University

Waco, TX
#16
in
Best Undergraduate Teaching (tie)
$51,738
15,191
(fall 2021)


University of Michigan--Ann Arbor

Ann Arbor, MI
#16
in
Best Undergraduate Teaching (tie)
$57,273
(out-of-state)
$17,786
(in-state)
32,282
(fall 2021)


Arizona State University

Tempe, AZ
#18
in
Best Undergraduate Teaching (tie)
$30,592
(out-of-state)
$11,618
(in-state)
64,716
(fall 2021)



Harvard University

Cambridge, MA
#18
in
Best Undergraduate Teaching (tie)
$57,261
7,153
(fall 2021)


Miami University--Oxford

Oxford, OH
#18
in
Best Undergraduate Teaching (tie)
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 10:37     Subject: W&M in WSJ Rankings
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:W&M is really 13th grade for smart Virginia kids.

My daughter goes to a public university in another state and 75 percent of school is out of state and international.

W&M is not a real college experience given so many Virginia residents


W&M actually has a higher percentage of OOS students (40%) than any other Virginia state college/university. So I guess you're one of those people who thinks no Virginia state school provides a "real college experience" for VA residents. And by the way, what public university in the U.S. has 75% of its students from OOS/abroad?

+1 That's what I'm saying.. it's such a dumb thing to say.. that's it's not a "real" college experience if you go in state, given that the vast majority of college kids go in state.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 10:23     Subject: W&M in WSJ Rankings
Anonymous wrote:W&M is really 13th grade for smart Virginia kids.

My daughter goes to a public university in another state and 75 percent of school is out of state and international.

W&M is not a real college experience given so many Virginia residents


W&M actually has a higher percentage of OOS students (40%) than any other Virginia state college/university. So I guess you're one of those people who thinks no Virginia state school provides a "real college experience" for VA residents. And by the way, what public university in the U.S. has 75% of its students from OOS/abroad?
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 10:06     Subject: W&M in WSJ Rankings
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:W&M is really 13th grade for smart Virginia kids.

My daughter goes to a public university in another state and 75 percent of school is out of state and international.

W&M is not a real college experience given so many Virginia residents

given that most of college students go to in state colleges where most have students from in state, I'd say that is the normal, "real" college experience.


The kids from NOVA that tend to populate W&M have grown up with a lot of cultural diversity--and often have been fairly transient themselves. I don't think they are going to get a lot more added value by going to a public university in another state so they can meet all the Pennsylvania, Minnesota or Iowa or wherever kids. I'm much more concerned with them getting a high quality education. Given-that 1/3 of the students are out of state or international at W&M (and UVA), I think they are well-served.


I just said the same thing
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 10:05     Subject: W&M in WSJ Rankings
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:W&M is really 13th grade for smart Virginia kids.

My daughter goes to a public university in another state and 75 percent of school is out of state and international.

W&M is not a real college experience given so many Virginia residents

given that most of college students go to in state colleges where most have students from in state, I'd say that is the normal, "real" college experience.


This argument is always so stupid to me if you grew up in DC/NoVA/MoCo.

My kids have friends from all over the world. We lived in Georgetown when my son was born and all of his early friends (and mine) were from Europe or S.America. He has maintained contact with many that now live in Brussels, Berlin, etc. We moved close-in VA when he was starting school and his sibling was born. The public was very International. Again, many classmates had parents in foreign service, diplomats, world bank and there was also a large portion of first generation immigrants. They have friends that left and came back from Australia, New Zealand, Madagascar, etc.

So--as a donut hole family, I'm not particularly worried about it being '13th grade'. I went to a state VA school and my roommate was out of state and the other VA friends I made I did not know prior. One of the great things about having friends from the general area you grew up is rides to and from school and hanging out together over the summer, etc.

We live in the 'city' again. D.C. and my kids often take the train up to NYC to visit cousins, etc. They take the Metro to get to and from high school.

I just will never understand this argument. Yeah- I guess they could go to UNC where it's 75% students from North Carolina and that is going to be a much more homogenous group than kids from VA.


PP- I wasn't calling your statement stupid. I was referring to the tiresome '13th grade' in VA.

If it's the difference between paying $85k/year and $40k year, 13th grade is looking pretty damn good!
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 10:04     Subject: W&M in WSJ Rankings
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:W&M is really 13th grade for smart Virginia kids.

My daughter goes to a public university in another state and 75 percent of school is out of state and international.

W&M is not a real college experience given so many Virginia residents

given that most of college students go to in state colleges where most have students from in state, I'd say that is the normal, "real" college experience.


This argument is always so stupid to me if you grew up in DC/NoVA/MoCo.

My kids have friends from all over the world. We lived in Georgetown when my son was born and all of his early friends (and mine) were from Europe or S.America. He has maintained contact with many that now live in Brussels, Berlin, etc. We moved close-in VA when he was starting school and his sibling was born. The public was very International. Again, many classmates had parents in foreign service, diplomats, world bank and there was also a large portion of first generation immigrants. They have friends that left and came back from Australia, New Zealand, Madagascar, etc.

So--as a donut hole family, I'm not particularly worried about it being '13th grade'. I went to a state VA school and my roommate was out of state and the other VA friends I made I did not know prior. One of the great things about having friends from the general area you grew up is rides to and from school and hanging out together over the summer, etc.

We live in the 'city' again. D.C. and my kids often take the train up to NYC to visit cousins, etc. They take the Metro to get to and from high school.

I just will never understand this argument. Yeah- I guess they could go to UNC where it's 75% students from North Carolina and that is going to be a much more homogenous group than kids from VA.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 09:50     Subject: W&M in WSJ Rankings
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:W&M has a strong alumni network and high graduation rates. For in-state residents, the tuition is a fantastic deal. They get a private school education for a public school price.

WSJ rankings seem to be the least useful when comparing to US News or Niche.

folderol


The bolded is such nonsense; I always laugh whenever I read this. [/quote

Except it’s not. I had a kid transfer from WM to UVA. The classes and professors are far superior WM. This isn’t to say he doesn’t love UVA, but the classes are huge (even as a junior) and not nearly as engaging/in depth.

WM will always get knocked down in the rankings because it competes with large, national universities that have the capacity to do a lot more research (which, personally, I always found to be an odd metric at the undergraduate level).

In terms of ROI, it’s also a problematic metric. A number of law schools dumped USNWR over the weight given to ROI because a lot of their students go on to very prestigious internships or clerkships after law school.


Well, why did he transfer, then? lol
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 09:31     Subject: W&M in WSJ Rankings
W&M is ranked in the top 10 in undergraduate teaching - has been for years. This is a more meaningful metric than the WSJ's muddled methodology:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching?_mode=table

Elon University
Elon, NC
#1 in Best Undergraduate Teaching

Brown University
Providence, RI
#2

Princeton University
Princeton, NJ
#3

Rice University
#3
Houston, TX

Boston College
Chestnut Hill, MA
#5

Dartmouth College
Hanover, NH
#5

Georgia State University
Atlanta, GA
#7

William & Mary
Williamsburg, VA
#7

University of Maryland, Baltimore County
Baltimore, MD
#9

University of Notre Dame
Notre Dame, IN
#9

Duke University
Durham, NC
#11
in Best Undergraduate Teaching
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 09:22     Subject: W&M in WSJ Rankings
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:W&M is really 13th grade for smart Virginia kids.

My daughter goes to a public university in another state and 75 percent of school is out of state and international.

W&M is not a real college experience given so many Virginia residents

given that most of college students go to in state colleges where most have students from in state, I'd say that is the normal, "real" college experience.


The kids from NOVA that tend to populate W&M have grown up with a lot of cultural diversity--and often have been fairly transient themselves. I don't think they are going to get a lot more added value by going to a public university in another state so they can meet all the Pennsylvania, Minnesota or Iowa or wherever kids. I'm much more concerned with them getting a high quality education. Given-that 1/3 of the students are out of state or international at W&M (and UVA), I think they are well-served.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 08:53     Subject: W&M in WSJ Rankings
Anonymous wrote:W&M is really 13th grade for smart Virginia kids.

My daughter goes to a public university in another state and 75 percent of school is out of state and international.

W&M is not a real college experience given so many Virginia residents

given that most of college students go to in state colleges where most have students from in state, I'd say that is the normal, "real" college experience.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 08:46     Subject: W&M in WSJ Rankings
Anonymous wrote:W&M is really 13th grade for smart Virginia kids.

My daughter goes to a public university in another state and 75 percent of school is out of state and international.

W&M is not a real college experience given so many Virginia residents


W&M, like UVA, is required to take 2/3 of its students from VA so yes they have a lot of students from VA. Glad your daughters school is more diverse. But it looks like kids don't want to hang around in their own state if 75% of the strudent population is from somewhere else.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 08:46     Subject: W&M in WSJ Rankings
I don't think this ranking will have much barring on US News. For instance I don't expect Johns Hopkins to fall down the rankings because it's ranked 99 on WSJ.