Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the poster who has been labeled as the cruising apologist. Lol.

My Haitian friends and coworkers haven’t visited Haiti in years. It’s not safe, and they say they would be targets.

No American can safely travel to Haiti right now unless they arrive by ship to Labadee. That’s a fact.

Yes, Labadee is far removed and protected from the rampant violence further south.

I disagree that it isn’t an authentic experience. You will see the lush beauty of the beaches fronting the tropical mountains, swim in the ocean, and interact with locals working onsite.

What would you get at a Haitian resort? The only difference I see is risk.

Wow. Just wow. You really think an afternoon in Labadee is an “authentic experience” in Haiti? It is not. An “authentic experience” would be visiting the Sans Souci Palace ruins and the Citadelle only an hour away. An “authentic experience” would be touring Port au Prince and leaning about Haitian history and art. An “authentic experience” would be a visit to Jacmel. Locking white tourists up on a beach on the north coast of Haiti where their only interactions with local Haitians are those hand selected by Royal Caribbean and who pay RC a commission for the privilege is not an “authentic experience.” You are delusional to the point of absurdity, you do know that right??!!

Sigh.

Obviously.

But nobody can safely do any of that now. You do realize that, right?

And you do realize that lots of people who take land based trips to the Caribbean typically stay put at resorts, right? Are their trips more authentic?

Nobody is venturing on tours in Haiti now. It’s just not safe. But Labadee is safe. And you absolutely get a taste of the beauty there. You just do. Unless you’ve been there, how could you possibly know? FYI: they have some historic ruins at Labadee along with cultural docents.

FTR, I have traveled extensively and I prefer off the beaten path destinations. I strive to eat where the locals go. I’m not one to plop down at a resort unless I’m taking a relaxing vacation. But I’m also not one to openly criticize others who travel differently or those who take cruises.

I hope the op goes to Labadee. I had a fantastic day there last year. So relaxing. My kids really enjoyed swimming there and even they commented on how gorgeous the location is in terms of gardens and the tropical, mountainous backdrop.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went there with RC and it's a private beach only available to RC passengers. I had wanted to take supplies and things because our church works with groups in Haiti but we had no access to them and vice versa. It's a nice beach, I guess (I'm not really a beach person). RC removes all the seaweed too, which is weird to me but I guess that's what happens at a private beach.

Responding to myself. We took a guided tour of the area and I asked the tour guide how they feel about all the cruise ships etc disrupting their island. He told me the locals love it, because it means opportunity and jobs they didn't have before and wouldn't otherwise.

I’m the pp who had travelled to Haiti working for an NGO. This was my experience as well. I had a couple of conversations about Labadee with Haitian colleagues, because some friends had been there during a cruise while I was in the country. They were really positive about the jobs it created. I remember them sounding proud that it was a cruise stop. I’d assume most cruise stops are not genuine examples of the life of that country. There’s nothing upsetting or shocking about that.

Just btw, Haitians I’ve met are really proud of their country’s beaches. I used to go for breaks at a couple of beautiful beach clubs, not far from the capital. They weren’t just for foreign tourists and they were “real” beaches filled with Haitian families. They were gorgeous! And the food was amazing.

Agreed.

Only some privileged Americans can’t recognize that cruise ships and the passengers they bring fuel economic opportunity. The people working at Labadee have a safe job where they receive cash tips on top of their salary.

Haiti is a beautiful country. A friend with an ngo traveled across the country many years ago and her pictures were gorgeous. She said it was one of the most beautiful places she had ever visited—both the beaches and the mountains.

When you arrive by ship, the landscape is breathtaking. It’s so lush and striking, unlike any other island I’ve seen.

In Labadee by the buffet, there are performers who do flips, tumbling, etc. on the bare cement. Definitely bring cash to tip them. They are amazing.

Oh great. The cruise ship apologist is back. Sorry, but those ships pollute massively and contribute a pittance to the local economy (in this case most locals can’t even get near the tourists!). You are the definition of eyes wide shut.

I don’t think you understand what a mess Haiti is. The jobs in the RC private beach at Labadee are highly desired positions for locals. Their economy is a mess and people live in abject poverty.

I didn’t bring up pollution. That’s a different debate.

But ICYMI: cruise ships have no issue with recruiting and retaining workers. Why? Because they are desperate for economic opportunity—and many are looking for safety. The cruise industry is widely known as a safe haven for the lgbtqi community. People literally run from family and home countries that refuse to accept them and find their tribe on board ships. If you bothered to speak with the crew, you’d understand where they are coming from.

Your solution is simply not to go to Haiti since practically speaking the only tourists arrive by RC (or sometimes their sister line Celebrity) to Labadee. Whether you admit it or not, that’s a big Screw You to the Haitians who work there. Their jobs sustain their families.

No, you couldn’t be more wrong. Very few locals can even access the tourists at Labadee, who are completely locked away in their own world to take advantage of and pollute the local environment, totally oblivious to the actual local conditions in the adjacent village that they can’t even see if they want to. The way to do it is to travel independently, hiring local guides, taxi drivers, and boats, and staying in local resorts where the waiters and staff are Haitian. And to do if for more than an afternoon. I have traveled to Haiti independently twice, and it was wonderful. Anyone who supports the cruise ship mafia in Labadee, where virtually all of the money goes to RC and RC alone, is clueless at best and morally contemptible at worst. Got it cruise ship lady?

I cannot say strongly enough that traveling independently in Haiti right now is not a good idea. I ended my time with an NGO being driven in a car with an armed guard. There is no one in my organization, and many others, still in country.

We are not talking about cruise tourism vs. independent tourism. We are talking about cruise tourism vs. no tourism. Those are the options for Haiti right now. We live in the real world. Join us.

The RC ship that docks in Labadee holds 4,375 passengers. If just half of them disembark, that brings the country $26,250. For a single day. Talking about the value of $12 per person as though it is nothing is just stupid.

There are definitely things wrong with this whole scenario. Corruption and pollution would be the top two. There are arguments to me made against cruises to any of these Caribbean ports. PP just doesn’t know what they actually are.

So I guess my two independent travel experiences in Haiti weren’t real then? OK. I see you live in the NGO world, and that explains a lot.

When did you go? In the past 12 months?

Yes of course.

Anonymous wrote:I’m the poster who has been labeled as the cruising apologist. Lol.

My Haitian friends and coworkers haven’t visited Haiti in years. It’s not safe, and they say they would be targets.

No American can safely travel to Haiti right now unless they arrive by ship to Labadee. That’s a fact.

Yes, Labadee is far removed and protected from the rampant violence further south.

I disagree that it isn’t an authentic experience. You will see the lush beauty of the beaches fronting the tropical mountains, swim in the ocean, and interact with locals working onsite.

What would you get at a Haitian resort? The only difference I see is risk.

Wow. Just wow. You really think an afternoon in Labadee is an “authentic experience” in Haiti? It is not. An “authentic experience” would be visiting the Sans Souci Palace ruins and the Citadelle only an hour away. An “authentic experience” would be touring Port au Prince and leaning about Haitian history and art. An “authentic experience” would be a visit to Jacmel. Locking white tourists up on a beach on the north coast of Haiti where their only interactions with local Haitians are those hand selected by Royal Caribbean and who pay RC a commission for the privilege is not an “authentic experience.” You are delusional to the point of absurdity, you do know that right??!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went there with RC and it's a private beach only available to RC passengers. I had wanted to take supplies and things because our church works with groups in Haiti but we had no access to them and vice versa. It's a nice beach, I guess (I'm not really a beach person). RC removes all the seaweed too, which is weird to me but I guess that's what happens at a private beach.

Responding to myself. We took a guided tour of the area and I asked the tour guide how they feel about all the cruise ships etc disrupting their island. He told me the locals love it, because it means opportunity and jobs they didn't have before and wouldn't otherwise.

I’m the pp who had travelled to Haiti working for an NGO. This was my experience as well. I had a couple of conversations about Labadee with Haitian colleagues, because some friends had been there during a cruise while I was in the country. They were really positive about the jobs it created. I remember them sounding proud that it was a cruise stop. I’d assume most cruise stops are not genuine examples of the life of that country. There’s nothing upsetting or shocking about that.

Just btw, Haitians I’ve met are really proud of their country’s beaches. I used to go for breaks at a couple of beautiful beach clubs, not far from the capital. They weren’t just for foreign tourists and they were “real” beaches filled with Haitian families. They were gorgeous! And the food was amazing.

Agreed.

Only some privileged Americans can’t recognize that cruise ships and the passengers they bring fuel economic opportunity. The people working at Labadee have a safe job where they receive cash tips on top of their salary.

Haiti is a beautiful country. A friend with an ngo traveled across the country many years ago and her pictures were gorgeous. She said it was one of the most beautiful places she had ever visited—both the beaches and the mountains.

When you arrive by ship, the landscape is breathtaking. It’s so lush and striking, unlike any other island I’ve seen.

In Labadee by the buffet, there are performers who do flips, tumbling, etc. on the bare cement. Definitely bring cash to tip them. They are amazing.

Oh great. The cruise ship apologist is back. Sorry, but those ships pollute massively and contribute a pittance to the local economy (in this case most locals can’t even get near the tourists!). You are the definition of eyes wide shut.

I don’t think you understand what a mess Haiti is. The jobs in the RC private beach at Labadee are highly desired positions for locals. Their economy is a mess and people live in abject poverty.

I didn’t bring up pollution. That’s a different debate.

But ICYMI: cruise ships have no issue with recruiting and retaining workers. Why? Because they are desperate for economic opportunity—and many are looking for safety. The cruise industry is widely known as a safe haven for the lgbtqi community. People literally run from family and home countries that refuse to accept them and find their tribe on board ships. If you bothered to speak with the crew, you’d understand where they are coming from.

Your solution is simply not to go to Haiti since practically speaking the only tourists arrive by RC (or sometimes their sister line Celebrity) to Labadee. Whether you admit it or not, that’s a big Screw You to the Haitians who work there. Their jobs sustain their families.

No, you couldn’t be more wrong. Very few locals can even access the tourists at Labadee, who are completely locked away in their own world to take advantage of and pollute the local environment, totally oblivious to the actual local conditions in the adjacent village that they can’t even see if they want to. The way to do it is to travel independently, hiring local guides, taxi drivers, and boats, and staying in local resorts where the waiters and staff are Haitian. And to do if for more than an afternoon. I have traveled to Haiti independently twice, and it was wonderful. Anyone who supports the cruise ship mafia in Labadee, where virtually all of the money goes to RC and RC alone, is clueless at best and morally contemptible at worst. Got it cruise ship lady?

I cannot say strongly enough that traveling independently in Haiti right now is not a good idea. I ended my time with an NGO being driven in a car with an armed guard. There is no one in my organization, and many others, still in country.

We are not talking about cruise tourism vs. independent tourism. We are talking about cruise tourism vs. no tourism. Those are the options for Haiti right now. We live in the real world. Join us.

The RC ship that docks in Labadee holds 4,375 passengers. If just half of them disembark, that brings the country $26,250. For a single day. Talking about the value of $12 per person as though it is nothing is just stupid.

There are definitely things wrong with this whole scenario. Corruption and pollution would be the top two. There are arguments to me made against cruises to any of these Caribbean ports. PP just doesn’t know what they actually are.

So I guess my two independent travel experiences in Haiti weren’t real then? OK. I see you live in the NGO world, and that explains a lot.

Cannot tell you how much I love that pp was throwing shade on someone for working in, like, healthcare or food assistance or something, and not going on a vacation. Don’t ever change DCUM.

They probably spend far more in security for their visiting NGO execs than they do helping the local populace. That’s a common theme. Most of the donations go to salary and overhead in DC, not helping actual people in Haiti or other developing nations.

Labadee is a well-barricaded compound that RC owns and operates. Passengers who disembark are technically in Haiti, but only interact with RC employees or merchants who are approved to be on site. I wouldn’t be concerned about travel advisories.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went there with RC and it's a private beach only available to RC passengers. I had wanted to take supplies and things because our church works with groups in Haiti but we had no access to them and vice versa. It's a nice beach, I guess (I'm not really a beach person). RC removes all the seaweed too, which is weird to me but I guess that's what happens at a private beach.

Responding to myself. We took a guided tour of the area and I asked the tour guide how they feel about all the cruise ships etc disrupting their island. He told me the locals love it, because it means opportunity and jobs they didn't have before and wouldn't otherwise.

I’m the pp who had travelled to Haiti working for an NGO. This was my experience as well. I had a couple of conversations about Labadee with Haitian colleagues, because some friends had been there during a cruise while I was in the country. They were really positive about the jobs it created. I remember them sounding proud that it was a cruise stop. I’d assume most cruise stops are not genuine examples of the life of that country. There’s nothing upsetting or shocking about that.

Just btw, Haitians I’ve met are really proud of their country’s beaches. I used to go for breaks at a couple of beautiful beach clubs, not far from the capital. They weren’t just for foreign tourists and they were “real” beaches filled with Haitian families. They were gorgeous! And the food was amazing.

Agreed.

Only some privileged Americans can’t recognize that cruise ships and the passengers they bring fuel economic opportunity. The people working at Labadee have a safe job where they receive cash tips on top of their salary.

Haiti is a beautiful country. A friend with an ngo traveled across the country many years ago and her pictures were gorgeous. She said it was one of the most beautiful places she had ever visited—both the beaches and the mountains.

When you arrive by ship, the landscape is breathtaking. It’s so lush and striking, unlike any other island I’ve seen.

In Labadee by the buffet, there are performers who do flips, tumbling, etc. on the bare cement. Definitely bring cash to tip them. They are amazing.

Oh great. The cruise ship apologist is back. Sorry, but those ships pollute massively and contribute a pittance to the local economy (in this case most locals can’t even get near the tourists!). You are the definition of eyes wide shut.

I don’t think you understand what a mess Haiti is. The jobs in the RC private beach at Labadee are highly desired positions for locals. Their economy is a mess and people live in abject poverty.

I didn’t bring up pollution. That’s a different debate.

But ICYMI: cruise ships have no issue with recruiting and retaining workers. Why? Because they are desperate for economic opportunity—and many are looking for safety. The cruise industry is widely known as a safe haven for the lgbtqi community. People literally run from family and home countries that refuse to accept them and find their tribe on board ships. If you bothered to speak with the crew, you’d understand where they are coming from.

Your solution is simply not to go to Haiti since practically speaking the only tourists arrive by RC (or sometimes their sister line Celebrity) to Labadee. Whether you admit it or not, that’s a big Screw You to the Haitians who work there. Their jobs sustain their families.

No, you couldn’t be more wrong. Very few locals can even access the tourists at Labadee, who are completely locked away in their own world to take advantage of and pollute the local environment, totally oblivious to the actual local conditions in the adjacent village that they can’t even see if they want to. The way to do it is to travel independently, hiring local guides, taxi drivers, and boats, and staying in local resorts where the waiters and staff are Haitian. And to do if for more than an afternoon. I have traveled to Haiti independently twice, and it was wonderful. Anyone who supports the cruise ship mafia in Labadee, where virtually all of the money goes to RC and RC alone, is clueless at best and morally contemptible at worst. Got it cruise ship lady?

I cannot say strongly enough that traveling independently in Haiti right now is not a good idea. I ended my time with an NGO being driven in a car with an armed guard. There is no one in my organization, and many others, still in country.

We are not talking about cruise tourism vs. independent tourism. We are talking about cruise tourism vs. no tourism. Those are the options for Haiti right now. We live in the real world. Join us.

The RC ship that docks in Labadee holds 4,375 passengers. If just half of them disembark, that brings the country $26,250. For a single day. Talking about the value of $12 per person as though it is nothing is just stupid.

There are definitely things wrong with this whole scenario. Corruption and pollution would be the top two. There are arguments to me made against cruises to any of these Caribbean ports. PP just doesn’t know what they actually are.

So I guess my two independent travel experiences in Haiti weren’t real then? OK. I see you live in the NGO world, and that explains a lot.

Cannot tell you how much I love that pp was throwing shade on someone for working in, like, healthcare or food assistance or something, and not going on a vacation. Don’t ever change DCUM.

+1

Who hates on people who dedicate their lives to NGOs???

They are literally doing God’s work on the frontlines where most would fear going.

Some of the citizens of Dcumlandia are really weird.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went there with RC and it's a private beach only available to RC passengers. I had wanted to take supplies and things because our church works with groups in Haiti but we had no access to them and vice versa. It's a nice beach, I guess (I'm not really a beach person). RC removes all the seaweed too, which is weird to me but I guess that's what happens at a private beach.

Responding to myself. We took a guided tour of the area and I asked the tour guide how they feel about all the cruise ships etc disrupting their island. He told me the locals love it, because it means opportunity and jobs they didn't have before and wouldn't otherwise.

I’m the pp who had travelled to Haiti working for an NGO. This was my experience as well. I had a couple of conversations about Labadee with Haitian colleagues, because some friends had been there during a cruise while I was in the country. They were really positive about the jobs it created. I remember them sounding proud that it was a cruise stop. I’d assume most cruise stops are not genuine examples of the life of that country. There’s nothing upsetting or shocking about that.

Just btw, Haitians I’ve met are really proud of their country’s beaches. I used to go for breaks at a couple of beautiful beach clubs, not far from the capital. They weren’t just for foreign tourists and they were “real” beaches filled with Haitian families. They were gorgeous! And the food was amazing.

Agreed.

Only some privileged Americans can’t recognize that cruise ships and the passengers they bring fuel economic opportunity. The people working at Labadee have a safe job where they receive cash tips on top of their salary.

Haiti is a beautiful country. A friend with an ngo traveled across the country many years ago and her pictures were gorgeous. She said it was one of the most beautiful places she had ever visited—both the beaches and the mountains.

When you arrive by ship, the landscape is breathtaking. It’s so lush and striking, unlike any other island I’ve seen.

In Labadee by the buffet, there are performers who do flips, tumbling, etc. on the bare cement. Definitely bring cash to tip them. They are amazing.

Oh great. The cruise ship apologist is back. Sorry, but those ships pollute massively and contribute a pittance to the local economy (in this case most locals can’t even get near the tourists!). You are the definition of eyes wide shut.

I don’t think you understand what a mess Haiti is. The jobs in the RC private beach at Labadee are highly desired positions for locals. Their economy is a mess and people live in abject poverty.

I didn’t bring up pollution. That’s a different debate.

But ICYMI: cruise ships have no issue with recruiting and retaining workers. Why? Because they are desperate for economic opportunity—and many are looking for safety. The cruise industry is widely known as a safe haven for the lgbtqi community. People literally run from family and home countries that refuse to accept them and find their tribe on board ships. If you bothered to speak with the crew, you’d understand where they are coming from.

Your solution is simply not to go to Haiti since practically speaking the only tourists arrive by RC (or sometimes their sister line Celebrity) to Labadee. Whether you admit it or not, that’s a big Screw You to the Haitians who work there. Their jobs sustain their families.

No, you couldn’t be more wrong. Very few locals can even access the tourists at Labadee, who are completely locked away in their own world to take advantage of and pollute the local environment, totally oblivious to the actual local conditions in the adjacent village that they can’t even see if they want to. The way to do it is to travel independently, hiring local guides, taxi drivers, and boats, and staying in local resorts where the waiters and staff are Haitian. And to do if for more than an afternoon. I have traveled to Haiti independently twice, and it was wonderful. Anyone who supports the cruise ship mafia in Labadee, where virtually all of the money goes to RC and RC alone, is clueless at best and morally contemptible at worst. Got it cruise ship lady?

I cannot say strongly enough that traveling independently in Haiti right now is not a good idea. I ended my time with an NGO being driven in a car with an armed guard. There is no one in my organization, and many others, still in country.

We are not talking about cruise tourism vs. independent tourism. We are talking about cruise tourism vs. no tourism. Those are the options for Haiti right now. We live in the real world. Join us.

The RC ship that docks in Labadee holds 4,375 passengers. If just half of them disembark, that brings the country $26,250. For a single day. Talking about the value of $12 per person as though it is nothing is just stupid.

There are definitely things wrong with this whole scenario. Corruption and pollution would be the top two. There are arguments to me made against cruises to any of these Caribbean ports. PP just doesn’t know what they actually are.

So I guess my two independent travel experiences in Haiti weren’t real then? OK. I see you live in the NGO world, and that explains a lot.

Cannot tell you how much I love that pp was throwing shade on someone for working in, like, healthcare or food assistance or something, and not going on a vacation. Don’t ever change DCUM.

I’m the poster who has been labeled as the cruising apologist. Lol.

My Haitian friends and coworkers haven’t visited Haiti in years. It’s not safe, and they say they would be targets.

No American can safely travel to Haiti right now unless they arrive by ship to Labadee. That’s a fact.

Yes, Labadee is far removed and protected from the rampant violence further south.

I disagree that it isn’t an authentic experience. You will see the lush beauty of the beaches fronting the tropical mountains, swim in the ocean, and interact with locals working onsite.

What would you get at a Haitian resort? The only difference I see is risk.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went there with RC and it's a private beach only available to RC passengers. I had wanted to take supplies and things because our church works with groups in Haiti but we had no access to them and vice versa. It's a nice beach, I guess (I'm not really a beach person). RC removes all the seaweed too, which is weird to me but I guess that's what happens at a private beach.

Responding to myself. We took a guided tour of the area and I asked the tour guide how they feel about all the cruise ships etc disrupting their island. He told me the locals love it, because it means opportunity and jobs they didn't have before and wouldn't otherwise.

I’m the pp who had travelled to Haiti working for an NGO. This was my experience as well. I had a couple of conversations about Labadee with Haitian colleagues, because some friends had been there during a cruise while I was in the country. They were really positive about the jobs it created. I remember them sounding proud that it was a cruise stop. I’d assume most cruise stops are not genuine examples of the life of that country. There’s nothing upsetting or shocking about that.

Just btw, Haitians I’ve met are really proud of their country’s beaches. I used to go for breaks at a couple of beautiful beach clubs, not far from the capital. They weren’t just for foreign tourists and they were “real” beaches filled with Haitian families. They were gorgeous! And the food was amazing.

Agreed.

Only some privileged Americans can’t recognize that cruise ships and the passengers they bring fuel economic opportunity. The people working at Labadee have a safe job where they receive cash tips on top of their salary.

Haiti is a beautiful country. A friend with an ngo traveled across the country many years ago and her pictures were gorgeous. She said it was one of the most beautiful places she had ever visited—both the beaches and the mountains.

When you arrive by ship, the landscape is breathtaking. It’s so lush and striking, unlike any other island I’ve seen.

In Labadee by the buffet, there are performers who do flips, tumbling, etc. on the bare cement. Definitely bring cash to tip them. They are amazing.

Oh great. The cruise ship apologist is back. Sorry, but those ships pollute massively and contribute a pittance to the local economy (in this case most locals can’t even get near the tourists!). You are the definition of eyes wide shut.

I don’t think you understand what a mess Haiti is. The jobs in the RC private beach at Labadee are highly desired positions for locals. Their economy is a mess and people live in abject poverty.

I didn’t bring up pollution. That’s a different debate.

But ICYMI: cruise ships have no issue with recruiting and retaining workers. Why? Because they are desperate for economic opportunity—and many are looking for safety. The cruise industry is widely known as a safe haven for the lgbtqi community. People literally run from family and home countries that refuse to accept them and find their tribe on board ships. If you bothered to speak with the crew, you’d understand where they are coming from.

Your solution is simply not to go to Haiti since practically speaking the only tourists arrive by RC (or sometimes their sister line Celebrity) to Labadee. Whether you admit it or not, that’s a big Screw You to the Haitians who work there. Their jobs sustain their families.

No, you couldn’t be more wrong. Very few locals can even access the tourists at Labadee, who are completely locked away in their own world to take advantage of and pollute the local environment, totally oblivious to the actual local conditions in the adjacent village that they can’t even see if they want to. The way to do it is to travel independently, hiring local guides, taxi drivers, and boats, and staying in local resorts where the waiters and staff are Haitian. And to do if for more than an afternoon. I have traveled to Haiti independently twice, and it was wonderful. Anyone who supports the cruise ship mafia in Labadee, where virtually all of the money goes to RC and RC alone, is clueless at best and morally contemptible at worst. Got it cruise ship lady?

I cannot say strongly enough that traveling independently in Haiti right now is not a good idea. I ended my time with an NGO being driven in a car with an armed guard. There is no one in my organization, and many others, still in country.

We are not talking about cruise tourism vs. independent tourism. We are talking about cruise tourism vs. no tourism. Those are the options for Haiti right now. We live in the real world. Join us.

The RC ship that docks in Labadee holds 4,375 passengers. If just half of them disembark, that brings the country $26,250. For a single day. Talking about the value of $12 per person as though it is nothing is just stupid.

There are definitely things wrong with this whole scenario. Corruption and pollution would be the top two. There are arguments to me made against cruises to any of these Caribbean ports. PP just doesn’t know what they actually are.

So I guess my two independent travel experiences in Haiti weren’t real then? OK. I see you live in the NGO world, and that explains a lot.

When did you go? In the past 12 months?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went there with RC and it's a private beach only available to RC passengers. I had wanted to take supplies and things because our church works with groups in Haiti but we had no access to them and vice versa. It's a nice beach, I guess (I'm not really a beach person). RC removes all the seaweed too, which is weird to me but I guess that's what happens at a private beach.

Responding to myself. We took a guided tour of the area and I asked the tour guide how they feel about all the cruise ships etc disrupting their island. He told me the locals love it, because it means opportunity and jobs they didn't have before and wouldn't otherwise.

I’m the pp who had travelled to Haiti working for an NGO. This was my experience as well. I had a couple of conversations about Labadee with Haitian colleagues, because some friends had been there during a cruise while I was in the country. They were really positive about the jobs it created. I remember them sounding proud that it was a cruise stop. I’d assume most cruise stops are not genuine examples of the life of that country. There’s nothing upsetting or shocking about that.

Just btw, Haitians I’ve met are really proud of their country’s beaches. I used to go for breaks at a couple of beautiful beach clubs, not far from the capital. They weren’t just for foreign tourists and they were “real” beaches filled with Haitian families. They were gorgeous! And the food was amazing.

Agreed.

Only some privileged Americans can’t recognize that cruise ships and the passengers they bring fuel economic opportunity. The people working at Labadee have a safe job where they receive cash tips on top of their salary.

Haiti is a beautiful country. A friend with an ngo traveled across the country many years ago and her pictures were gorgeous. She said it was one of the most beautiful places she had ever visited—both the beaches and the mountains.

When you arrive by ship, the landscape is breathtaking. It’s so lush and striking, unlike any other island I’ve seen.

In Labadee by the buffet, there are performers who do flips, tumbling, etc. on the bare cement. Definitely bring cash to tip them. They are amazing.

Oh great. The cruise ship apologist is back. Sorry, but those ships pollute massively and contribute a pittance to the local economy (in this case most locals can’t even get near the tourists!). You are the definition of eyes wide shut.

I don’t think you understand what a mess Haiti is. The jobs in the RC private beach at Labadee are highly desired positions for locals. Their economy is a mess and people live in abject poverty.

I didn’t bring up pollution. That’s a different debate.

But ICYMI: cruise ships have no issue with recruiting and retaining workers. Why? Because they are desperate for economic opportunity—and many are looking for safety. The cruise industry is widely known as a safe haven for the lgbtqi community. People literally run from family and home countries that refuse to accept them and find their tribe on board ships. If you bothered to speak with the crew, you’d understand where they are coming from.

Your solution is simply not to go to Haiti since practically speaking the only tourists arrive by RC (or sometimes their sister line Celebrity) to Labadee. Whether you admit it or not, that’s a big Screw You to the Haitians who work there. Their jobs sustain their families.

No, you couldn’t be more wrong. Very few locals can even access the tourists at Labadee, who are completely locked away in their own world to take advantage of and pollute the local environment, totally oblivious to the actual local conditions in the adjacent village that they can’t even see if they want to. The way to do it is to travel independently, hiring local guides, taxi drivers, and boats, and staying in local resorts where the waiters and staff are Haitian. And to do if for more than an afternoon. I have traveled to Haiti independently twice, and it was wonderful. Anyone who supports the cruise ship mafia in Labadee, where virtually all of the money goes to RC and RC alone, is clueless at best and morally contemptible at worst. Got it cruise ship lady?

I cannot say strongly enough that traveling independently in Haiti right now is not a good idea. I ended my time with an NGO being driven in a car with an armed guard. There is no one in my organization, and many others, still in country.

We are not talking about cruise tourism vs. independent tourism. We are talking about cruise tourism vs. no tourism. Those are the options for Haiti right now. We live in the real world. Join us.

The RC ship that docks in Labadee holds 4,375 passengers. If just half of them disembark, that brings the country $26,250. For a single day. Talking about the value of $12 per person as though it is nothing is just stupid.

There are definitely things wrong with this whole scenario. Corruption and pollution would be the top two. There are arguments to me made against cruises to any of these Caribbean ports. PP just doesn’t know what they actually are.

So I guess my two independent travel experiences in Haiti weren’t real then? OK. I see you live in the NGO world, and that explains a lot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went there with RC and it's a private beach only available to RC passengers. I had wanted to take supplies and things because our church works with groups in Haiti but we had no access to them and vice versa. It's a nice beach, I guess (I'm not really a beach person). RC removes all the seaweed too, which is weird to me but I guess that's what happens at a private beach.

Responding to myself. We took a guided tour of the area and I asked the tour guide how they feel about all the cruise ships etc disrupting their island. He told me the locals love it, because it means opportunity and jobs they didn't have before and wouldn't otherwise.

I’m the pp who had travelled to Haiti working for an NGO. This was my experience as well. I had a couple of conversations about Labadee with Haitian colleagues, because some friends had been there during a cruise while I was in the country. They were really positive about the jobs it created. I remember them sounding proud that it was a cruise stop. I’d assume most cruise stops are not genuine examples of the life of that country. There’s nothing upsetting or shocking about that.

Just btw, Haitians I’ve met are really proud of their country’s beaches. I used to go for breaks at a couple of beautiful beach clubs, not far from the capital. They weren’t just for foreign tourists and they were “real” beaches filled with Haitian families. They were gorgeous! And the food was amazing.

Agreed.

Only some privileged Americans can’t recognize that cruise ships and the passengers they bring fuel economic opportunity. The people working at Labadee have a safe job where they receive cash tips on top of their salary.

Haiti is a beautiful country. A friend with an ngo traveled across the country many years ago and her pictures were gorgeous. She said it was one of the most beautiful places she had ever visited—both the beaches and the mountains.

When you arrive by ship, the landscape is breathtaking. It’s so lush and striking, unlike any other island I’ve seen.

In Labadee by the buffet, there are performers who do flips, tumbling, etc. on the bare cement. Definitely bring cash to tip them. They are amazing.

Oh great. The cruise ship apologist is back. Sorry, but those ships pollute massively and contribute a pittance to the local economy (in this case most locals can’t even get near the tourists!). You are the definition of eyes wide shut.

I don’t think you understand what a mess Haiti is. The jobs in the RC private beach at Labadee are highly desired positions for locals. Their economy is a mess and people live in abject poverty.

I didn’t bring up pollution. That’s a different debate.

But ICYMI: cruise ships have no issue with recruiting and retaining workers. Why? Because they are desperate for economic opportunity—and many are looking for safety. The cruise industry is widely known as a safe haven for the lgbtqi community. People literally run from family and home countries that refuse to accept them and find their tribe on board ships. If you bothered to speak with the crew, you’d understand where they are coming from.

Your solution is simply not to go to Haiti since practically speaking the only tourists arrive by RC (or sometimes their sister line Celebrity) to Labadee. Whether you admit it or not, that’s a big Screw You to the Haitians who work there. Their jobs sustain their families.

No, you couldn’t be more wrong. Very few locals can even access the tourists at Labadee, who are completely locked away in their own world to take advantage of and pollute the local environment, totally oblivious to the actual local conditions in the adjacent village that they can’t even see if they want to. The way to do it is to travel independently, hiring local guides, taxi drivers, and boats, and staying in local resorts where the waiters and staff are Haitian. And to do if for more than an afternoon. I have traveled to Haiti independently twice, and it was wonderful. Anyone who supports the cruise ship mafia in Labadee, where virtually all of the money goes to RC and RC alone, is clueless at best and morally contemptible at worst. Got it cruise ship lady?

I cannot say strongly enough that traveling independently in Haiti right now is not a good idea. I ended my time with an NGO being driven in a car with an armed guard. There is no one in my organization, and many others, still in country.

We are not talking about cruise tourism vs. independent tourism. We are talking about cruise tourism vs. no tourism. Those are the options for Haiti right now. We live in the real world. Join us.

The RC ship that docks in Labadee holds 4,375 passengers. If just half of them disembark, that brings the country $26,250. For a single day. Talking about the value of $12 per person as though it is nothing is just stupid.

There are definitely things wrong with this whole scenario. Corruption and pollution would be the top two. There are arguments to me made against cruises to any of these Caribbean ports. PP just doesn’t know what they actually are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Labadee is the private island leased by the cruise line. Your only danger is other cruise passengers/crew.

It's not an island. It's at the tip of a small peninsula with only one road in/out.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/eqoJLj8EGXCnBS7h9

Finally, someone mentioned it’s not an island. It’s perfectly safe and secured. Go and have a nice time!

Anonymous wrote:Since 1986, RCCL has contributed the biggest proportion of tourist revenue to Haiti, employing 300 locals, allowing another 200 to sell wares on the premises for a fee, and also paying the government of Haiti $12 per ship tourist.

That’s after spending $50M way back when to develop the beach, amenities, and port (with a most money going to the government).

$12 per passenger is a lot given how many thousands of people even the small ships hold.

Are you kidding me? $12 is less than an airport transfer. You think that is a significant contribution?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went there with RC and it's a private beach only available to RC passengers. I had wanted to take supplies and things because our church works with groups in Haiti but we had no access to them and vice versa. It's a nice beach, I guess (I'm not really a beach person). RC removes all the seaweed too, which is weird to me but I guess that's what happens at a private beach.

Responding to myself. We took a guided tour of the area and I asked the tour guide how they feel about all the cruise ships etc disrupting their island. He told me the locals love it, because it means opportunity and jobs they didn't have before and wouldn't otherwise.

I’m the pp who had travelled to Haiti working for an NGO. This was my experience as well. I had a couple of conversations about Labadee with Haitian colleagues, because some friends had been there during a cruise while I was in the country. They were really positive about the jobs it created. I remember them sounding proud that it was a cruise stop. I’d assume most cruise stops are not genuine examples of the life of that country. There’s nothing upsetting or shocking about that.

Just btw, Haitians I’ve met are really proud of their country’s beaches. I used to go for breaks at a couple of beautiful beach clubs, not far from the capital. They weren’t just for foreign tourists and they were “real” beaches filled with Haitian families. They were gorgeous! And the food was amazing.

Agreed.

Only some privileged Americans can’t recognize that cruise ships and the passengers they bring fuel economic opportunity. The people working at Labadee have a safe job where they receive cash tips on top of their salary.

Haiti is a beautiful country. A friend with an ngo traveled across the country many years ago and her pictures were gorgeous. She said it was one of the most beautiful places she had ever visited—both the beaches and the mountains.

When you arrive by ship, the landscape is breathtaking. It’s so lush and striking, unlike any other island I’ve seen.

In Labadee by the buffet, there are performers who do flips, tumbling, etc. on the bare cement. Definitely bring cash to tip them. They are amazing.

Oh great. The cruise ship apologist is back. Sorry, but those ships pollute massively and contribute a pittance to the local economy (in this case most locals can’t even get near the tourists!). You are the definition of eyes wide shut.

I don’t think you understand what a mess Haiti is. The jobs in the RC private beach at Labadee are highly desired positions for locals. Their economy is a mess and people live in abject poverty.

I didn’t bring up pollution. That’s a different debate.

But ICYMI: cruise ships have no issue with recruiting and retaining workers. Why? Because they are desperate for economic opportunity—and many are looking for safety. The cruise industry is widely known as a safe haven for the lgbtqi community. People literally run from family and home countries that refuse to accept them and find their tribe on board ships. If you bothered to speak with the crew, you’d understand where they are coming from.

Your solution is simply not to go to Haiti since practically speaking the only tourists arrive by RC (or sometimes their sister line Celebrity) to Labadee. Whether you admit it or not, that’s a big Screw You to the Haitians who work there. Their jobs sustain their families.

No, you couldn’t be more wrong. Very few locals can even access the tourists at Labadee, who are completely locked away in their own world to take advantage of and pollute the local environment, totally oblivious to the actual local conditions in the adjacent village that they can’t even see if they want to. The way to do it is to travel independently, hiring local guides, taxi drivers, and boats, and staying in local resorts where the waiters and staff are Haitian. And to do if for more than an afternoon. I have traveled to Haiti independently twice, and it was wonderful. Anyone who supports the cruise ship mafia in Labadee, where virtually all of the money goes to RC and RC alone, is clueless at best and morally contemptible at worst. Got it cruise ship lady?

Since 1986, RCCL has contributed the biggest proportion of tourist revenue to Haiti, employing 300 locals, allowing another 200 to sell wares on the premises for a fee, and also paying the government of Haiti $12 per ship tourist.

That’s after spending $50M way back when to develop the beach, amenities, and port (with a most money going to the government).

$12 per passenger is a lot given how many thousands of people even the small ships hold.