Anonymous wrote:PS - It truly is baby steps OP. DH does not get it. He thinks - ohhhh - we got our kid help! Let's go - it's all good now. Our kid will learn and get better and we are set! He doesn't get that when you talk about executive function issues - it is SO HARD. SO SO SO SO HARD for someone who does not have the ability to do what is easy for someone who doesn't need help in this to imagine that difficulty level. It's also peaks and valleys. You have to get the kid to fall into a habit of doing certain processes but the emotional impact of realizing they have to do it when their friends or siblings who do not. They may feel dumb about needing to make lists all the time. Your tutor can teach them how to do it - they aren't going to care at the end of the day how dumb they feel about it. As mom - you do. So what I'm talking about is that it is quite a process. As school gets harder, and they get older, they learn more cheat cheats to help them. It's not just learning skills it's a holistic approach to conceptually change your attitude that working memory doesn't just get better with time. You mitigate the deficits using techniques you learn - you gain ability to achieve the same organization results but you may need to do it differently than someone who is naturally organized. Most people do not understand how hard it is for a kid who lacks exec functioning skills to go from point A to point B. Without parental involvement and support, no tutor will be effective in the long run. Ask me how I know.

what does “working memory” have to do with it? my kid has spectacular working memory and is still an organizational mess. I hate throwing around all of these scientific sounding concepts w no substance.

Anonymous wrote:We pay $90 a week for two half hour sessions. Lovely person. She organizes his week. I don't feel like there is much more than that though.

I ask him (high school age) what he has learned about managing ADHD and he said nothing.

I really don't think they do much other than scheduling. I wonder if a therapist is better (although we tried that and it didn't help either)

so basically you hired a secretary for your HS kid

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think EF coaches are just another way to separate SN parents from their money.

IMO EF coaches are doing the "special instruction" job that a school should be doing for ADHD kids who are disabled and deserve an IEP but are instead shunted to the 504 track by the school, who really has no clue and no training i how to teach executive functioning.

Except they aren’t in the school so it’s not clear what they are doing. Perhaps a kid can be “coached” to start keeping a planner and organize assignments at home?

My issue is that nobody can actually explain what “executive function” is and therefore I think anyone marketing themselves as an “executive function coach” is a grifter.

Anonymous wrote:I think EF coaches are just another way to separate SN parents from their money.

IMO EF coaches are doing the "special instruction" job that a school should be doing for ADHD kids who are disabled and deserve an IEP but are instead shunted to the 504 track by the school, who really has no clue and no training i how to teach executive functioning.

We pay $90 a week for two half hour sessions. Lovely person. She organizes his week. I don't feel like there is much more than that though.

I ask him (high school age) what he has learned about managing ADHD and he said nothing.

I really don't think they do much other than scheduling. I wonder if a therapist is better (although we tried that and it didn't help either)

Can any untrained but patience/responsible adults be a EF coach? I don't know what EF coach do, but I know they are all out of network or paid by insurance. Does it have to be 1:1 to make it work? Can it be online or have to be in person?

I'm relating to the OP - the struggle is real! ADHD is hereditary, and parents of kids with ADHD might well have it themselves - which only magnifies the challenges of parenting a neurodiverse kid.

ADDA has some less expensive support groups you might look into.

Anonymous wrote:PS - It truly is baby steps OP. DH does not get it. He thinks - ohhhh - we got our kid help! Let's go - it's all good now. Our kid will learn and get better and we are set! He doesn't get that when you talk about executive function issues - it is SO HARD. SO SO SO SO HARD for someone who does not have the ability to do what is easy for someone who doesn't need help in this to imagine that difficulty level. It's also peaks and valleys. You have to get the kid to fall into a habit of doing certain processes but the emotional impact of realizing they have to do it when their friends or siblings who do not. They may feel dumb about needing to make lists all the time. Your tutor can teach them how to do it - they aren't going to care at the end of the day how dumb they feel about it. As mom - you do. So what I'm talking about is that it is quite a process. As school gets harder, and they get older, they learn more cheat cheats to help them. It's not just learning skills it's a holistic approach to conceptually change your attitude that working memory doesn't just get better with time. You mitigate the deficits using techniques you learn - you gain ability to achieve the same organization results but you may need to do it differently than someone who is naturally organized. Most people do not understand how hard it is for a kid who lacks exec functioning skills to go from point A to point B. Without parental involvement and support, no tutor will be effective in the long run. Ask me how I know.

How old are your kids?

Anonymous wrote:This discussion is really interesting and informative. We are trying to figure out if it would be worth it to get an EF tutor for our middle schooler with ADHD. He struggles a LOT with getting schoolwork done. And definitely with organization. But I don’t understand how the EF coach can help. Half the time, he is not able to get started or not able to sustain attention. And those problems seem so much worse than the organization issues. Organization is a mess too but even if he was more organized, it seems like he would still need daily support to get started and then to sustain attention throughout. Never mind following instructions, writing his name down, and putting the paper in the backpack when done. Which of these skills can an EF coach, especially a virtual one, help with? Even if we covered the instructions, name, and backpack through EF support, wouldn’t we still have a challenge with getting started and sustained attention? So, Mom still spending a few hours a day on ADHD support anyway?

DP---I have the same questions as you. I don't understand how a weekly virtual EF coach helps.

This discussion is really interesting and informative. We are trying to figure out if it would be worth it to get an EF tutor for our middle schooler with ADHD. He struggles a LOT with getting schoolwork done. And definitely with organization. But I don’t understand how the EF coach can help. Half the time, he is not able to get started or not able to sustain attention. And those problems seem so much worse than the organization issues. Organization is a mess too but even if he was more organized, it seems like he would still need daily support to get started and then to sustain attention throughout. Never mind following instructions, writing his name down, and putting the paper in the backpack when done. Which of these skills can an EF coach, especially a virtual one, help with? Even if we covered the instructions, name, and backpack through EF support, wouldn’t we still have a challenge with getting started and sustained attention? So, Mom still spending a few hours a day on ADHD support anyway?

PS - It truly is baby steps OP. DH does not get it. He thinks - ohhhh - we got our kid help! Let's go - it's all good now. Our kid will learn and get better and we are set! He doesn't get that when you talk about executive function issues - it is SO HARD. SO SO SO SO HARD for someone who does not have the ability to do what is easy for someone who doesn't need help in this to imagine that difficulty level. It's also peaks and valleys. You have to get the kid to fall into a habit of doing certain processes but the emotional impact of realizing they have to do it when their friends or siblings who do not. They may feel dumb about needing to make lists all the time. Your tutor can teach them how to do it - they aren't going to care at the end of the day how dumb they feel about it. As mom - you do. So what I'm talking about is that it is quite a process. As school gets harder, and they get older, they learn more cheat cheats to help them. It's not just learning skills it's a holistic approach to conceptually change your attitude that working memory doesn't just get better with time. You mitigate the deficits using techniques you learn - you gain ability to achieve the same organization results but you may need to do it differently than someone who is naturally organized. Most people do not understand how hard it is for a kid who lacks exec functioning skills to go from point A to point B. Without parental involvement and support, no tutor will be effective in the long run. Ask me how I know.

I'm the PP who wrote the above. Oh, I'm well aware of that kids can't always work with their parents - I don't work with mine because of this. My point is that if you can't find someone because of finances or market competition, who else do you have except the parent?

Also, while we have a private tutor who helps with both exec func and school work with our kid, as a parent, I'm there to also support. It's not like you hire someone and bam! as a parent you are totally clear of anything else you need to do.

As mom, I have someone who can do most of the heavy lifting weekly in working with my kid but I still am the one who helps my kid practice these habits, works with the tutor to ensure effectiveness, etc. Let's be honest - too many parents hire help and leave it at that. As working parents, my family def is guilty of this some of the time but with learning disabilities, I've also learned that the parent has to commit to the effort or the coaching doesn't stick.

The same reasons why the kid needs the exec coaching contributes to their inconsistency in doing what they need to do - you need a parent there to push and support, to manage and monitor that they are actually on top of all the cheat cheats basically they need to utilize to help them in ways that it's so much harder for them - stuff we who have no deficits take for granted. I see and hear too many stories of my kids' friends whose parents don't want to do that work.

My other kid is like a natural at it. I simply cannot expect that one person working with my LD kid can flip a switch and have it look like my kid who excels at organization. It's just not that easy even though I have one kid that makes it look it.

Anonymous wrote:Depends so much on individual kid. Making lists and providing structure. You have to get that poor working memory accounts for a lot of organizational deficits and managing complexity can be a challenge. It's about simplifying things and making it easier to remember to do. It's really not rocket science. Think about ways you multi task efficiently. You have to teach it to someone who can't intuitively figure this out. A planned or something to track activities and assignments is the first step. You're essentially teaching skills to be able to simplify tasks and timelines - think about how your kid responds and work from there. On some level I hate to tell you even having the money isn't as effective as figuring how to 1:1 work with your kid because you know them best. The concepts are same but techniques are different. No 2 people are the same even without learning disabilities it's not like it's magic going from point A to B for anyone whether ADHD or not! Do some work, research with effort and realize that as a parent you can help your kid!!!!

You can put in all the research, effort, and time, you can know your kid best and you can learn all the techniques that work for them. But some kids can't get over the emotional hurdle of working with their parents. A PP asked what kids do who can't afford this. I think they make do, and it's not always pretty.