Anonymous
08/22/2023 11:45
Subject: Athletes vs everyone else at SLACS?
It’s that these schools are small and sell the idea of tight knit togetherness and lifelong bonds, and it feels crappy to be excluded or lonely. I had a freshman roommate who played soccer. Super nice person but never around. Gone every weekend for games on the road, always at practice or team activities or team study sessions. It makes a small school much smaller than expected.
Anonymous
08/22/2023 11:34
Subject: Re:Athletes vs everyone else at SLACS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:From my experience as an athlete (white woman D3 back in the olden days) with kids who are current college athletes (black/white D1 and D3 kids), athletes hang together and don't really interact with non-athletes no matter the school. This tends to be truer when the athletes are not white.
There are so few non-white people on college campuses that the non-white kids hang together and the fact that they're also athletes only gives them another data point to bond over. The non-white and white athletes also hang together to the exclusion of non-athletes, but the white athletes are more likely to mix in because they feel comfortable doing so. My niece who is black said the black athletes are friendly but hang together. Not with non-athletes. She goes to a D1 school so maybe at a SLAC black athletes hang with other black poeple who are not athletes because there are so few black people.
According to my kids and their friends, when you're a minority on a campus you spend enough time in the classroom with others so on your down time you rather be where you're most comfortable (with other minorities and/or other athletes if you are one).
Black athletes in d1 also are wary of regulars trying to connect for nefarious purposes since they could be going pro
Paulo Banchero said that about duke - that he felt he was like a zoo animal at times with normies whispering about him or trying to sneak photos
Black athletes might be wary your neice is lookin for a future bag
You are responding to me and I totally agree. She is not, but I understand that the athletes don't know that so it's easier for them to distance themselves. I think she gets that too.
Anonymous
08/22/2023 11:33
Subject: Re:Athletes vs everyone else at SLACS?
Anonymous wrote:From my experience as an athlete (white woman D3 back in the olden days) with kids who are current college athletes (black/white D1 and D3 kids), athletes hang together and don't really interact with non-athletes no matter the school. This tends to be truer when the athletes are not white.
There are so few non-white people on college campuses that the non-white kids hang together and the fact that they're also athletes only gives them another data point to bond over. The non-white and white athletes also hang together to the exclusion of non-athletes, but the white athletes are more likely to mix in because they feel comfortable doing so. My niece who is black said the black athletes are friendly but hang together. Not with non-athletes. She goes to a D1 school so maybe at a SLAC black athletes hang with other black poeple who are not athletes because there are so few black people.
According to my kids and their friends, when you're a minority on a campus you spend enough time in the classroom with others so on your down time you rather be where you're most comfortable (with other minorities and/or other athletes if you are one).
I get this but at SLACS like Amherst, Williams, MIddlebury, etc the athletes are white and wealthy. At Duke, I get how this would be a problem. At Williams, the non-athletes are more likely to be from a city, URM, and/or gay. The suburban white kids are on allll those teams.
Anonymous
08/22/2023 11:31
Subject: Athletes vs everyone else at SLACS?
D1 athletes are pretty darned popular. This thread doesn't make any sense.
All this race card stuff is BS. Someone is stirring the pot.
All this race card stuff is BS. Someone is stirring the pot.
Anonymous
08/22/2023 11:29
Subject: Re:Athletes vs everyone else at SLACS?
Anonymous wrote:What is the goal here? Will you only really feel good about life when a lax bro and theater person is hanging out on a regular basis.
Why?
It's not 1989 anymore, Mom. We're pushing past your outdated ideas of what a lax player and theater major look like. Kindly move aside.
Anonymous
08/22/2023 11:25
Subject: Athletes vs everyone else at SLACS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There’s been less of a divide at the extreme liberal schools since there’s been open discussion of the racism (particularly anti-Black racism) inherent in a lot of the anti-athlete attitudes.
It depends on the school's "top" sports though. At many LACs, the "top" sports are sports like Lacrosse, that are almost 100% white and private school.
Yes, but that doesn’t remove the fact that on many campuses, anti-athlete sentiment was (and is) a very, very thin cover for anti-Black racism.
Are you saying the hostility to lacrosse bros at Amherst stems from anti-Black racism?? This makes zero sense.
Anti-athlete sentiment in universities is frequently a cover for anti-Black racism. It doesn’t matter that the lacrosse team is white; it’s often the Black students who receive the brunt of the anti-athlete sentiment, even if they are a small percentage of the athletes as a whole on a team (and often they aren’t; on many campuses the athletic teams have a higher percentage of Black students than other groups of students).
At Amherst and other elite LACs this is also true. The hostility to athletes is and has been a cover for white liberals to engage in anti-Black racism that they otherwise wouldn’t publicly express (but that they clearly feel). The comments and nastiness directed towards Black athletes on these campuses is appalling.
This really doesn’t make any sense. At elite LACs, athletes skew white and privileged. That is a bit part of why the white lefties have a problem with them. The popped collar lax bro is like cryptonite for them. As a non-lefty, I’m inclined to support theories of white liberal racism (which I think is under discussed) but it feels wrong to me that these attacks on athletes are really going after the handful of black athletes on the teams. Even the sports with relatively high black participation are still like 80 percent white at elite lacs and some sports are almost totally white/Asian.
Anonymous
08/22/2023 11:25
Subject: Athletes vs everyone else at SLACS?
Yes, part of the separation of athletes and non-athletes is a direct response to racism. That leads to a structure of separation the white athletes often end up adopting too. The non-white athletes will hang out with each other and with white athletes, but not with non-athletes because the racism is significant.
Anonymous
08/22/2023 11:24
Subject: Athletes vs everyone else at SLACS?
I went to college with a white kid from NYC. Freshman year he always sat with the black kids. After a few weeks someone asked why he always came to "our" table. He said his high school was mostly black and he felt weird sitting at a table full of other white kids.
People are complicated
People are complicated
Anonymous
08/22/2023 11:23
Subject: Re:Athletes vs everyone else at SLACS?
Anonymous wrote:From my experience as an athlete (white woman D3 back in the olden days) with kids who are current college athletes (black/white D1 and D3 kids), athletes hang together and don't really interact with non-athletes no matter the school. This tends to be truer when the athletes are not white.
There are so few non-white people on college campuses that the non-white kids hang together and the fact that they're also athletes only gives them another data point to bond over. The non-white and white athletes also hang together to the exclusion of non-athletes, but the white athletes are more likely to mix in because they feel comfortable doing so. My niece who is black said the black athletes are friendly but hang together. Not with non-athletes. She goes to a D1 school so maybe at a SLAC black athletes hang with other black poeple who are not athletes because there are so few black people.
According to my kids and their friends, when you're a minority on a campus you spend enough time in the classroom with others so on your down time you rather be where you're most comfortable (with other minorities and/or other athletes if you are one).
Black athletes in d1 also are wary of regulars trying to connect for nefarious purposes since they could be going pro
Paulo Banchero said that about duke - that he felt he was like a zoo animal at times with normies whispering about him or trying to sneak photos
Black athletes might be wary your neice is lookin for a future bag
Anonymous
08/22/2023 11:16
Subject: Re:Athletes vs everyone else at SLACS?
From my experience as an athlete (white woman D3 back in the olden days) with kids who are current college athletes (black/white D1 and D3 kids), athletes hang together and don't really interact with non-athletes no matter the school. This tends to be truer when the athletes are not white.
There are so few non-white people on college campuses that the non-white kids hang together and the fact that they're also athletes only gives them another data point to bond over. The non-white and white athletes also hang together to the exclusion of non-athletes, but the white athletes are more likely to mix in because they feel comfortable doing so. My niece who is black said the black athletes are friendly but hang together. Not with non-athletes. She goes to a D1 school so maybe at a SLAC black athletes hang with other black poeple who are not athletes because there are so few black people.
According to my kids and their friends, when you're a minority on a campus you spend enough time in the classroom with others so on your down time you rather be where you're most comfortable (with other minorities and/or other athletes if you are one).
There are so few non-white people on college campuses that the non-white kids hang together and the fact that they're also athletes only gives them another data point to bond over. The non-white and white athletes also hang together to the exclusion of non-athletes, but the white athletes are more likely to mix in because they feel comfortable doing so. My niece who is black said the black athletes are friendly but hang together. Not with non-athletes. She goes to a D1 school so maybe at a SLAC black athletes hang with other black poeple who are not athletes because there are so few black people.
According to my kids and their friends, when you're a minority on a campus you spend enough time in the classroom with others so on your down time you rather be where you're most comfortable (with other minorities and/or other athletes if you are one).
Anonymous
08/22/2023 11:14
Subject: Athletes vs everyone else at SLACS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Parents of non athletes hate the athletes. Their fellow students don’t.
This is not an accurate statement. The divide is real at several top LACs. Lacrosse bros are typically the most segregated. next is usually football players.
The most SLAC athlete/non-athlete divides are at Amherst College and at Middlebury College.
Similar athlete/non-athlete divide at all size of colleges & universities, but the larger the school, the less impact it has on a student's day-to-day life.
Nope. As a parent of an Amherst kid - this is not true. No D3 schools gives a crap about athletes. They are all smart kids - some play sports - some dont. No one cares.
Not accurate according to Amherst College study which found a significant divide between athletes and non-athletes at Amherst College.
Report finds divide between athletes and non-athletes at Amherst College:
https://www.gazettenet.com/Amherst-college-assesses-athletics-in-report-7871942
The Boston Globe and The Daily Beast have also published several articles regarding athletic divide at Amherst College.
The article is from 2017 and details a report from 2014-15. Biddy Martin is no longer president and every student involved (athletes and non athletes) has graduated and moved on.
I can't speak to Amherst specifically, as I have no first-hand knowledge of the culture there, but you're sharing very outdated information.
Is an article written and published by then current Amherst students in 2021 recent enough ?
The Amherst Student--March 17,2021:
Seeing Double: Bridging Amherst's Athletic Divide
(The link at first won't work, then the screen will change. Scroll down a bit to the article.)
https://www.amherststudent.com/article/bridging-amhersts-athletic-divide/
Better, but what a yikes of an article.
To wit: "athletes, seen as less intelligent by many non-athletes..." -- cite source? Or is this the author's view?
"varsity athletic programs receive millions annually" -- links to a report that says their total revenue is $7,990,643 vs total expenses of $7,505,943. Sounds to me like these programs bring in money.
"I myself sometimes wonder how different my Amherst experience would be if I had kept in touch with the athletes I exchanged numbers with during first-year orientation." -- that's on you, sir.
... culminating in the author's proposal to turn "all official athletics at the college into special athletic clubs, open to all students, regardless of experience. No more athletes would be recruited primarily to play on a specific team (although athletic ability could still help a student’s application). Instead, students would be allowed to join or create any athletic club they choose, and be trained on the job by their coaches and more experienced peers."
I could go on but unfortunately I have work to do.
Anonymous
08/22/2023 11:10
Subject: Athletes vs everyone else at SLACS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There’s been less of a divide at the extreme liberal schools since there’s been open discussion of the racism (particularly anti-Black racism) inherent in a lot of the anti-athlete attitudes.
It depends on the school's "top" sports though. At many LACs, the "top" sports are sports like Lacrosse, that are almost 100% white and private school.
Yes, but that doesn’t remove the fact that on many campuses, anti-athlete sentiment was (and is) a very, very thin cover for anti-Black racism.
Are you saying the hostility to lacrosse bros at Amherst stems from anti-Black racism?? This makes zero sense.
Anti-athlete sentiment in universities is frequently a cover for anti-Black racism. It doesn’t matter that the lacrosse team is white; it’s often the Black students who receive the brunt of the anti-athlete sentiment, even if they are a small percentage of the athletes as a whole on a team (and often they aren’t; on many campuses the athletic teams have a higher percentage of Black students than other groups of students).
At Amherst and other elite LACs this is also true. The hostility to athletes is and has been a cover for white liberals to engage in anti-Black racism that they otherwise wouldn’t publicly express (but that they clearly feel). The comments and nastiness directed towards Black athletes on these campuses is appalling.
Anonymous
08/22/2023 11:07
Subject: Athletes vs everyone else at SLACS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There’s been less of a divide at the extreme liberal schools since there’s been open discussion of the racism (particularly anti-Black racism) inherent in a lot of the anti-athlete attitudes.
It depends on the school's "top" sports though. At many LACs, the "top" sports are sports like Lacrosse, that are almost 100% white and private school.
Or a school like Colgate which has D1 hockey
Colgate is D1 in all varsity sports. Hopkins is an example where one sport - Lacrosse - is D1 and the rest are D3
Anonymous
08/22/2023 11:07
Subject: Athletes vs everyone else at SLACS?
Seriously though - the only people who get this worked up about athletes are lazy AF. Touch grass. Take a walk. Take the stairs. Whatever. There is nothing stopping you from waking up and doing 15 minutes of calisthenics.
Anonymous
08/22/2023 11:06
Subject: Athletes vs everyone else at SLACS?
At larger schools and D1 schools, you have more kids who played sports (possibly at a pretty high level) in HS who are no longer competing. And fewer kids as a percentage of the student body are on teams. So the non-athlete crowd is much larger and consists of many former athletes. So you probably don’t have as stark a jock vs nerd/creative situation going on.