Anonymous
Post 08/18/2023 14:17     Subject: Friend group is blowing up due to rift between teen girls
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have been tight with about six other moms since Kindergarten. Our girls have always been close. Moms genuinely close too. But I know it's always a danger to meet through kids - though I thought our friendship transcended this. I was maybe naive.

My DD has begun pulling away from one of the girls in the group. It is not personal. They have different interests. However, my DD is seen as a "cool" girl because she is sporty, and the other girl is more artsy and creative. Well apparently, there was a text spat between the girls - or some kind of misunderstanding - where the former friend wanted to hang out with DD and her new friends and my DD said no. The girl became incredibly upset, left school early, came come in tears, and the mom -- my friend -- got mad at me for allowing my DD to "drop" and bully her child.

I saw the texts and immediately talked to my own DD. My DD should have and could have been kinder in declining hanging out. But she wasn't bullying. She was excluding. But they just don't have anything in common and she does not really like this girl. But now the other mom is asking our friends to pick sides, complaining about my DD to our mutual friends, and wants to invite me to drinks to discuss what to do going into the new year.

I just feel sick over this whole thing and have zero desire to get involved in my child's social life in this way. I also do not want to raise a mean girl, but I think my kid should be able to drift from friends as a relationship ages out without repercussions. Anyone BTDT? I do still like the mother but this is putting a strain on our longtime circle.


You already did.


Genuinely curious: How so? Are people supposed to meet in K and remain friends for life?


No. But that does not mean you send mean text messages. It also means that sometime you do include them even if they are not your favorite person if they ask. Nobody was asking to be BFF's every day every night, she asked to hang out once.

You even said your daughters text was mean. How are you missing that your daughter is mean.
Anonymous
Post 08/18/2023 14:14     Subject: Friend group is blowing up due to rift between teen girls
Anonymous wrote:Your daughter was mean to a girl she's known for years because she's too sporty? Even telling this from your point of view you can't quite cover up that your kid is in the wrong.

Every adult doesn't need to "pick sides" but if you're willing to get involved in your DD's social life enough to read her texts, you can stay involved enough to tell her she was unkind and owes the other girl an apology. They don't have to be friends or ever hang out, but in your own words here you're raising a mean girl and you seem somewhere between fine with it and proud of it.


No, the op is claiming her daughter is cool because she’s sporty. That’s a new one on me.
Anonymous
Post 08/18/2023 14:13     Subject: Friend group is blowing up due to rift between teen girls
Anonymous wrote:Social exclusion is absolutely considered bullying.


So everyone needs to include everyone else in everything? Or else it’s bullying?

C’mon now.
Anonymous
Post 08/18/2023 14:07     Subject: Friend group is blowing up due to rift between teen girls
Why should girls like OP not face repercussions for their actions? I say good. Let her feel how much it hurts. Maybe she'll be kinder next time.
Anonymous
Post 08/18/2023 14:05     Subject: Friend group is blowing up due to rift between teen girls
Anonymous wrote:Social exclusion is absolutely considered bullying.


NP. Under the current broad definition of everything being bullying, yes, it is. But it shouldn't be because it isn't.

Kindly or unkindly excluding a former friend is life, it's not bullying to no longer be friends with someone. People change and sometimes people are friends for life, regardless of whatever they have or don't have in common, and sometimes/more often they aren't. These girls are not friends for life, or at least aren't friends now. Which is fine. And the only way to be not friends now is to be not friends now.
Anonymous
Post 08/18/2023 14:01     Subject: Friend group is blowing up due to rift between teen girls
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have been tight with about six other moms since Kindergarten. Our girls have always been close. Moms genuinely close too. But I know it's always a danger to meet through kids - though I thought our friendship transcended this. I was maybe naive.

My DD has begun pulling away from one of the girls in the group. It is not personal. They have different interests. However, my DD is seen as a "cool" girl because she is sporty, and the other girl is more artsy and creative. Well apparently, there was a text spat between the girls - or some kind of misunderstanding - where the former friend wanted to hang out with DD and her new friends and my DD said no. The girl became incredibly upset, left school early, came come in tears, and the mom -- my friend -- got mad at me for allowing my DD to "drop" and bully her child.

I saw the texts and immediately talked to my own DD. My DD should have and could have been kinder in declining hanging out. But she wasn't bullying. She was excluding. But they just don't have anything in common and she does not really like this girl. But now the other mom is asking our friends to pick sides, complaining about my DD to our mutual friends, and wants to invite me to drinks to discuss what to do going into the new year.

I just feel sick over this whole thing and have zero desire to get involved in my child's social life in this way. I also do not want to raise a mean girl, but I think my kid should be able to drift from friends as a relationship ages out without repercussions. Anyone BTDT? I do still like the mother but this is putting a strain on our longtime circle.


You already did.


Genuinely curious: How so? Are people supposed to meet in K and remain friends for life?


OP said her daughter was being exclusionary, and unkind in the process. OP also attributes the separation between the girls and the resulting exclusion to her daughter being more "cool" than the artsy girl (what kind of a 90's movie are we in, btw?). So her daughter is unkindly excluding people for not being cool according to the standard at their particular school - that's pretty much the definition of a mean girl.

Of course OP also says "it's nothing personal" and then a few lines later says her daughter doesn't like the girl. She's all over the place.


It doesn’t sound exclusionary to meet new volleyball friends and want to hang out with them without dragging along your kindergarten bestie.

I think OP needs to talk to her daughter about being kind and how to assert herself in a better way.

The solution is definitely not for her to be forced to bring her kindergarten friend to every volleyball party.



If one friend asks to hang out with you and you reject them because you are embarrassed to be associated with them then yes that is mean girl behavior and needs to be corrected. Teach your kids to be kind people!

At the least the DD could offer a different time and place to hang out if it doesn’t work as a group. Anything less is rude and mean.
Anonymous
Post 08/18/2023 14:01     Subject: Friend group is blowing up due to rift between teen girls
It seems like you are proud your daughter is the cool sporty one and are ok with exclusionary behavior based on a preconceived social hierarchy.

It’s fine if your kid doesn’t like nor want to be friends with an old friend anymore but their are repercussions. Including being seen as a bully, exclusionary or elitist.

She can drop friends, but there will be backlash and you’ve both got to get over it.
Anonymous
Post 08/18/2023 13:59     Subject: Re:Friend group is blowing up due to rift between teen girls
Anonymous wrote:NP. I am the mom of a very artsy, creative teen who was dropped by several “cooler,” sportier girls, some of whose mothers are also my friends. Being on the other side of this, I really think moms need to back off and let the kids work it out. Yes, feelings get hurt and it’s very hard to go through, but intervening is not going to help. They’ll discover what THEY want out of their friendships, not what their moms want them to want. Forcing kids to include others that they don’t want around just makes it so painful and awkward for everyone.


Yep. I’m tired of the “excluding someone is bullying.” It is not. Now if OP’s daughter was trying to turn everyone against the girl, therefore socially isolating her, that’s a different story. But not wanting to hang out? Perfectly acceptable to say no.
Anonymous
Post 08/18/2023 13:54     Subject: Re:Friend group is blowing up due to rift between teen girls
NP. I am the mom of a very artsy, creative teen who was dropped by several “cooler,” sportier girls, some of whose mothers are also my friends. Being on the other side of this, I really think moms need to back off and let the kids work it out. Yes, feelings get hurt and it’s very hard to go through, but intervening is not going to help. They’ll discover what THEY want out of their friendships, not what their moms want them to want. Forcing kids to include others that they don’t want around just makes it so painful and awkward for everyone.
Anonymous
Post 08/18/2023 13:53     Subject: Friend group is blowing up due to rift between teen girls
I hope my real friends (not "our kids know each other so we're a tight mom clique" friends) will punch me in the throat if I ever tell a story about how cool my DD has become that hinges on everyone agreeing with my definition of the difference between exclusionary and bullying.
Anonymous
Post 08/18/2023 13:49     Subject: Friend group is blowing up due to rift between teen girls
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have been tight with about six other moms since Kindergarten. Our girls have always been close. Moms genuinely close too. But I know it's always a danger to meet through kids - though I thought our friendship transcended this. I was maybe naive.

My DD has begun pulling away from one of the girls in the group. It is not personal. They have different interests. However, my DD is seen as a "cool" girl because she is sporty, and the other girl is more artsy and creative. Well apparently, there was a text spat between the girls - or some kind of misunderstanding - where the former friend wanted to hang out with DD and her new friends and my DD said no. The girl became incredibly upset, left school early, came come in tears, and the mom -- my friend -- got mad at me for allowing my DD to "drop" and bully her child.

I saw the texts and immediately talked to my own DD. My DD should have and could have been kinder in declining hanging out. But she wasn't bullying. She was excluding. But they just don't have anything in common and she does not really like this girl. But now the other mom is asking our friends to pick sides, complaining about my DD to our mutual friends, and wants to invite me to drinks to discuss what to do going into the new year.

I just feel sick over this whole thing and have zero desire to get involved in my child's social life in this way. I also do not want to raise a mean girl, but I think my kid should be able to drift from friends as a relationship ages out without repercussions. Anyone BTDT? I do still like the mother but this is putting a strain on our longtime circle.


You already did.


Genuinely curious: How so? Are people supposed to meet in K and remain friends for life?


OP said her daughter was being exclusionary, and unkind in the process. OP also attributes the separation between the girls and the resulting exclusion to her daughter being more "cool" than the artsy girl (what kind of a 90's movie are we in, btw?). So her daughter is unkindly excluding people for not being cool according to the standard at their particular school - that's pretty much the definition of a mean girl.

Of course OP also says "it's nothing personal" and then a few lines later says her daughter doesn't like the girl. She's all over the place.


It doesn’t sound exclusionary to meet new volleyball friends and want to hang out with them without dragging along your kindergarten bestie.

I think OP needs to talk to her daughter about being kind and how to assert herself in a better way.

The solution is definitely not for her to be forced to bring her kindergarten friend to every volleyball party.

Anonymous
Post 08/18/2023 13:48     Subject: Friend group is blowing up due to rift between teen girls
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have been tight with about six other moms since Kindergarten. Our girls have always been close. Moms genuinely close too. But I know it's always a danger to meet through kids - though I thought our friendship transcended this. I was maybe naive.

My DD has begun pulling away from one of the girls in the group. It is not personal. They have different interests. However, my DD is seen as a "cool" girl because she is sporty, and the other girl is more artsy and creative. Well apparently, there was a text spat between the girls - or some kind of misunderstanding - where the former friend wanted to hang out with DD and her new friends and my DD said no. The girl became incredibly upset, left school early, came come in tears, and the mom -- my friend -- got mad at me for allowing my DD to "drop" and bully her child.

I saw the texts and immediately talked to my own DD. My DD should have and could have been kinder in declining hanging out. But she wasn't bullying. She was excluding. But they just don't have anything in common and she does not really like this girl. But now the other mom is asking our friends to pick sides, complaining about my DD to our mutual friends, and wants to invite me to drinks to discuss what to do going into the new year.

I just feel sick over this whole thing and have zero desire to get involved in my child's social life in this way. I also do not want to raise a mean girl, but I think my kid should be able to drift from friends as a relationship ages out without repercussions. Anyone BTDT? I do still like the mother but this is putting a strain on our longtime circle.


You already did.


Genuinely curious: How so? Are people supposed to meet in K and remain friends for life?


OP said her daughter was being exclusionary, and unkind in the process. OP also attributes the separation between the girls and the resulting exclusion to her daughter being more "cool" than the artsy girl (what kind of a 90's movie are we in, btw?). So her daughter is unkindly excluding people for not being cool according to the standard at their particular school - that's pretty much the definition of a mean girl.

Of course OP also says "it's nothing personal" and then a few lines later says her daughter doesn't like the girl. She's all over the place.


+1


No, it is to illustrate why the other mom might be defensive - one kid is "cool" etc. It's a dynamic most people can relate to, a shorthand to explain the situation - cool friend moves on from fringe friend, mom gets hurt, how does other mom handle it.


I don't think "other mom" got hurt by the cool friend moving on. I think it's because her kid came home early from school in tears because the "cool kid" was mean to her and socially excluding her. "Cool mom" seems really hung up on pointing out how her kid's meanness doesn't meet the technical definition of bullying when it comes to this alternative, fringe kid who shouldn't really expect to be included or even treated kindly by someone she's known for years, but somehow that doesn't feel like A-1 parenting to me. But hey, I'm not campaigning for homecoming queen on behalf of my daughter, what do I know.


I don't think homecoming queens have been a thing since 1988.
Anonymous
Post 08/18/2023 13:46     Subject: Friend group is blowing up due to rift between teen girls
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Social exclusion is absolutely considered bullying.



Do you also believe that decline to date someone is bullying?

The girl isn't a service provider, she's entitled to choose her friends.

I was just replying to this part: "But she wasn't bullying. She was excluding."
OPs own words are showing that she was bullying. And she follows up with she was unkind, doesnt like her, etc. It definitely sounds like a mean girl bullying the artsy nerd.

Yes people can choose their own friends, doesnt mean they have to be dicks about it. That makes them a bully.


Anonymous
Post 08/18/2023 13:45     Subject: Friend group is blowing up due to rift between teen girls
I went through this with my tween. Initially I tried to mediate and the other mom would want to call and compare notes, but eventually I just told her, firmly but kindly, that I liked her kid and was sorry to see our kids drifting apart, but it was time to step back and let them navigate this themselves, and who knows, maybe they'd find themselves more in sync in the future. That was effectively the end of our "mom friendship" but thems the breaks when your friendship is based on that of your kids.
Anonymous
Post 08/18/2023 13:42     Subject: Friend group is blowing up due to rift between teen girls
Drop the drama llamas. You aren't married to them.