Anonymous
Post 08/16/2023 07:44     Subject: algebra 1 - which year?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why the need to take Calculus in high school? I didn't take it until college, and I was a Mathematics major.

The US is the only industrialized country that teaches (single variable) calculus in college. Everywhere else it's considered a prerequisite for attending a university.

Soon we'll teach precalculus in college - not a trend we should be proud of.

Calculus (based on the level of intellectual capacity displayed if you pass it by the age of 18) is a good gatekeeper to decide who should pursue more education after HS.


Something most people will never use should be the gatekeeper for post-secondary education. Got it. Signed, math major.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2023 03:11     Subject: algebra 1 - which year?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do most FCPS kids take algebra 1 in 8th or 9th? If 8th, do they first have to take honors math in 7th?


It depends on what you child is going to pursue in college and what level of school you wish them to attend. If STEM then 7th, if not STEM then either 8th or 9th is fine, unless seeking a top 30-40 college then the answer is back to 7th.


This is not true. It's an opinion. My kid went from "Gen Ed" math in ES, to Math 7 HN, to ALG 1 HN. Kid is in 11th this year. She's taking AP Pre-Calc/Trig. She's doing STEM and will be FINE.

Some parents (and maybe their kids, but lbh, it's the parents) push advanced math way to soon. I know lots of kids that failed doing this and had to take Alg 1 over or flamed out of math. Sure, I know a few geniuses doing well but they are well overshadowed by those that did not.


What class will she take next year? This looks like a bad course selection. AP Precalculus should be limited to 12th grade, because it is intended for students who take it as their last math class in high school. It is not a proper prerequisite for calculus. Loudoun will not let you take Calculus BC after this class, but does allow AB(but shouldn't).
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2023 03:06     Subject: algebra 1 - which year?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do most FCPS kids take algebra 1 in 8th or 9th? If 8th, do they first have to take honors math in 7th?


It depends on what you child is going to pursue in college and what level of school you wish them to attend. If STEM then 7th, if not STEM then either 8th or 9th is fine, unless seeking a top 30-40 college then the answer is back to 7th.
This is not true. You can take Algebra 1 in 8th grade and absolutely still major in a STEM field if you wanted to… You could even take Calculus 1 in college if you had to. Calc1 is offered in college. This big push for rapid acceleration is not necessary. Kids are born at all times of the year. So, a kid whose birthday falls at the end of grade and who was not red-listed could still major in a STEM field. This is not a one and done opportunity in middle school. The sky is not falling if your kid took Algebra 1 in 8th grade. In fact, in the 90’s, taking Algebra 1 in 8th grade was considered Advanced. It’s much better for your kid to build a very solid math foundation rather than rushing to a higher course. Your child’s brain is developing far into their 20’s and this isn’t a race. It’s a sequential journey of additional learned concepts and it’s much better to have a clear understanding at each step. I’m flabbergasted at how little math the college students have actually retained. —college professor


MIT has Calculus 1 and Calculus 2 with hundreds of students.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2023 03:05     Subject: algebra 1 - which year?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do most FCPS kids take algebra 1 in 8th or 9th? If 8th, do they first have to take honors math in 7th?

You can approximate this information from the numbers of FCPS students who took the SOL in Algebra I (assuming most parents don't opt their children out). In 2021/22, most students would have completed Algebra I by the end of 8th grade, but it's barely above 50%.
The actual numbers are:

6th grade: 0.15%
7th grade: 10.28%
8th grade: 41.37%
9th grade: 38.29%
10th grade: 6.15%
11th grade: 3.15%
12th grade: 0.60%

That means 51.8% completed it before 9th grade, and 90.10% by 9th grade. In 2021/22.
In my personal opinion, this is a healthy distribution that reflects the span of ability and motivation you would expect to find across these age groups.



Is there a breakdown by school? I know in some schools half take algebra by 7th grade.


I seriously doubt that. Only 20% of the County is in 6th grade AAP LIV. A smaller percentage of the kids take Advanced Math in 6th grade. Even assuming that 50% of the kids in 6th grade take the IAAT, a significant percentage do not meet the threshold for Algebra 1 Honors in 7th grade.

A Center MS, like Carson, probably has a higher percentage of kids in Algebra 1 Honors in 7th grade but I would be surprised to find it was half the school. Maybe 25% of the school.


I was told this by the principal around 2020 prior to the VMPI changes, and am under the impression that some nearby schools had even more acceleration. One school had multiple classes in school for Algebra 2 in 8th grade.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 22:04     Subject: algebra 1 - which year?
Anonymous wrote:Why the need to take Calculus in high school? I didn't take it until college, and I was a Mathematics major.

The US is the only industrialized country that teaches (single variable) calculus in college. Everywhere else it's considered a prerequisite for attending a university.

Soon we'll teach precalculus in college - not a trend we should be proud of.

Calculus (based on the level of intellectual capacity displayed if you pass it by the age of 18) is a good gatekeeper to decide who should pursue more education after HS.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 17:41     Subject: algebra 1 - which year?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why the need to take Calculus in high school? I didn't take it until college, and I was a Mathematics major.


Exactly. And taking algebra 1 in 8th grade puts you in Calculus in 12th grade. And many parents push for their kids to do Alegbra 1 in 7th grade, doing calculus in 11th. It's not necessary. It works for some kids, but a lot of them that do this accelerated track fail.


It isn’t a parent pushing when your kid is automatically enrolled in the class. That would be the school recommending. That said I did Algebra in 7th and took a year off from math in high school and was able to take an extra elective and ended in Calc in 12th. I never took another math class and loved that.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 17:13     Subject: algebra 1 - which year?
Anonymous wrote:Why the need to take Calculus in high school? I didn't take it until college, and I was a Mathematics major.

Having seen calculus in high school is helpful when taking calculus in college. Given that many kids have taken high school calculus, college instructors often assume students have some familiarity and move quickly through earlier material.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 16:51     Subject: algebra 1 - which year?
Anonymous wrote:Why the need to take Calculus in high school? I didn't take it until college, and I was a Mathematics major.

Kids have been taking Calc in high school for ever. For some, its appropriate. For others, not so much. Its good to be able to provide different levels.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 16:46     Subject: algebra 1 - which year?
Anonymous wrote:Why the need to take Calculus in high school? I didn't take it until college, and I was a Mathematics major.


Exactly. And taking algebra 1 in 8th grade puts you in Calculus in 12th grade. And many parents push for their kids to do Alegbra 1 in 7th grade, doing calculus in 11th. It's not necessary. It works for some kids, but a lot of them that do this accelerated track fail.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 16:46     Subject: algebra 1 - which year?
Anonymous wrote:Why the need to take Calculus in high school? I didn't take it until college, and I was a Mathematics major.


Because we live in a competitive world and the US is far behind in math and other high tech fields. We shouldn’t be holding people back if they have the aptitude and desire to advance quickly.

In many countries kids are taking Calculus in middle school. It really isn’t that hard of a subject.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 16:24     Subject: algebra 1 - which year?
Why the need to take Calculus in high school? I didn't take it until college, and I was a Mathematics major.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 14:52     Subject: Re:algebra 1 - which year?
My son did advanced math in elementary school and qualified for Algebra 1 in 7th grade based on the IOWA and his SOL scores - but only barely. We decided to do Math 7 honors instead. He'll do Algebra 1 honors in 8th grade. We decided there just wasn't a rush, and even though he really enjoys math, we weren't sure how hard the transition to middle school would be generally. We also heard from many families whose kids had done well in Algebra 1 but then had a really hard time in geometry and Algebra 2 and sort of flamed out from there. Just too many gaps in foundational knowledge if you move too quickly.

I think he will be interested in a STEM college degree, but getting through calc in high school should be sufficient, I would think.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 14:03     Subject: algebra 1 - which year?
Anonymous wrote:This topic comes up in different discussion groups all the time. The correct answer varies from family to family and student to student.

Can you get into a STEM program or a “top college”, however you define that, if you take Algebra 1 in 8th grade or later, yes you can.

If the child has the aptitude and desire to take Algebra 1 in 7th grade and does well, thereby setting up AP Calculus or higher math Senior year will they improve their chances of admission to a STEM program or “top college” then yes they will, but not guarantee admission.

Tens of thousands of kids take AP Calc or higher math, have outstanding AP test scores and SAT/AP scores so you have given yourself a chance to compete with other highly qualified kids for a small amount of available seats.

Do what is best for your child and your piece of mind based on teacher recommendations and child’s interests.


I don't even think there's evidence that this improves their chances.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 10:54     Subject: algebra 1 - which year?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do most FCPS kids take algebra 1 in 8th or 9th? If 8th, do they first have to take honors math in 7th?


It depends on what you child is going to pursue in college and what level of school you wish them to attend. If STEM then 7th, if not STEM then either 8th or 9th is fine, unless seeking a top 30-40 college then the answer is back to 7th.
This is not true. You can take Algebra 1 in 8th grade and absolutely still major in a STEM field if you wanted to… You could even take Calculus 1 in college if you had to. Calc1 is offered in college. This big push for rapid acceleration is not necessary. Kids are born at all times of the year. So, a kid whose birthday falls at the end of grade and who was not red-listed could still major in a STEM field. This is not a one and done opportunity in middle school. The sky is not falling if your kid took Algebra 1 in 8th grade. In fact, in the 90’s, taking Algebra 1 in 8th grade was considered Advanced. It’s much better for your kid to build a very solid math foundation rather than rushing to a higher course. Your child’s brain is developing far into their 20’s and this isn’t a race. It’s a sequential journey of additional learned concepts and it’s much better to have a clear understanding at each step. I’m flabbergasted at how little math the college students have actually retained. —college professor



1000000000% agree with this.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 10:52     Subject: algebra 1 - which year?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do most FCPS kids take algebra 1 in 8th or 9th? If 8th, do they first have to take honors math in 7th?


It depends on what you child is going to pursue in college and what level of school you wish them to attend. If STEM then 7th, if not STEM then either 8th or 9th is fine, unless seeking a top 30-40 college then the answer is back to 7th.


This is not true. It's an opinion. My kid went from "Gen Ed" math in ES, to Math 7 HN, to ALG 1 HN. Kid is in 11th this year. She's taking AP Pre-Calc/Trig. She's doing STEM and will be FINE.

Some parents (and maybe their kids, but lbh, it's the parents) push advanced math way to soon. I know lots of kids that failed doing this and had to take Alg 1 over or flamed out of math. Sure, I know a few geniuses doing well but they are well overshadowed by those that did not.