Because 4 is far, far rarer than three in today's society, too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who grew up in a family of four-- I think people who say that adding additional kids after 3 is "easy" do not think of their kids as individuals (or at least not all of them), probably rely on a good bit of childcare from their eldest, and better pray none of their kids has special needs in any way. Not just something like ADHD, ASD, or a learning disorder, but even subclinical issues like being slow to warm, mild sensory processing issues, etc.

Look, love is not a finite resource and kids need a lot less space and material goods than modern American consumerist culture currently dictates. But time and energy ARE finite, and the idea that adding a while other person to your family, a child who will be at peak "need," is no big deal is deranged.

I don't trust people who treat that cavalierly.

This may be the most sane post I've ever read on this website. I am one of six, and I firmly believe that no one needs more children than two. I don't care how much you want a big family. There is no way to take care of a child's emotional well being when there is so much need. It's batshit crazy to me that in this time of climate crisis (and when most children make it to adulthood) anyone should be having large families. Just don't do it.

It sounds like you need some therapy for your childhood. I came from a large family (7) as did my DH (6) and we have 4 kids. We are low producers out of our siblings. There is a lot of love and time and the 50+ cousins are all doing well with college, just starting careers, etc. There are definitely some special needs which will be continually worked on/with for life. But when you have an amazing childhood in a large family that is exactly what you want to give your own kids.

I'm not talking about material well-being as an indicator of happiness. There is no way that all of those 50+ cousins or your combined 11 siblings are doing well, as defined by their emotional health. And having special needs is definitely not something you can discount from the equation. Have you asked those relatives how happy and wonderful they feel their lives are? Do you know how hard it is to be a sibling of a kid with a disability? And what about all of your siblings? Are you close with each or close enough that they tell you about their inner lives? Or perhaps, like most kids in large families, they learn to keep their mouths shut so as not to rock the boat and just keep doing whatever the hell needs to be done to get by (obviously, some of that is subconscious). Do you know that being raised in a family of 5+ children is considered an Adverse Childhood Experience? Besides, the world doesn't need us to keep making so many humans!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had 3 under 3 when Covid hit. Spaced my 4th out and the oldest will she 7 when she’s born. Always wanted 4 and having 3 bigger kids and one baby doesn’t seem that daunting. Logistically I have to be very on the ball though.

OP here - I always thought I would have 4. First two kids are 19 months apart, then 3rd kid is 3.5 years younger than middle. So kids were baby, 3 and 5 when COVID hit. We thought we would then try for baby #4 when kid 3 was 10 months old (like we did with second kid) but COVID was still super in your face and I was traumatized by having 3 kids at home during my maternity leave.

Now I am close to 40 and worried about starting over. Kids are now 3, 6 and 8. Would love another one but also love being able to travel and not having to deal with naps and bottles and diaper. Wonder if I will regret it later on though.

The older my three kids get, the happier I am that I don’t have four, and I was only 34 when I stopped…40 would definitely have been a no go for me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who grew up in a family of four-- I think people who say that adding additional kids after 3 is "easy" do not think of their kids as individuals (or at least not all of them), probably rely on a good bit of childcare from their eldest, and better pray none of their kids has special needs in any way. Not just something like ADHD, ASD, or a learning disorder, but even subclinical issues like being slow to warm, mild sensory processing issues, etc.

Look, love is not a finite resource and kids need a lot less space and material goods than modern American consumerist culture currently dictates. But time and energy ARE finite, and the idea that adding a while other person to your family, a child who will be at peak "need," is no big deal is deranged.

I don't trust people who treat that cavalierly.

This may be the most sane post I've ever read on this website. I am one of six, and I firmly believe that no one needs more children than two. I don't care how much you want a big family. There is no way to take care of a child's emotional well being when there is so much need. It's batshit crazy to me that in this time of climate crisis (and when most children make it to adulthood) anyone should be having large families. Just don't do it.

I am one of two. My DH is one of seven. We both had wonderful childhoods. All of our siblings talk about what a wonderful childhood they had. It’s not family size that matters when it comes to how your childhood is. Perhaps you need therapy to deal with your issues.

Regarding your comment on the climate crisis, please move on. Google fertility rate and you will see all these articles about how dangerous a declining fertility rate it and how all these governments including ours are freaking out. The economist devoted an entire issue on the subject.

Anonymous wrote:Mom of 4 here.
I think it depends on your parenting style - more kids with more intensive parenting styles mean you either need to hire help or drop standards.
So, I have never sat with a child while they fell asleep, meal times and snack times were set times of day and they ate what was served or didn't eat (until they could get their own food), kids do chores to help out, teens walk/take the bus to some of their activities, etc.

But you were lucky not to have a kid with food allergies who needed special meals, a kid with autism who couldn't sleep, etc.

Anonymous wrote:I have 3 kids - for some reason when somebody tells me they have 4 kids it seems exponentially more than my 3. Is it truly that more difficult? I cannot fathom adding an additional child to my already insane life but maybe that’s just me. Or maybe people spread their kids out more? I had 3 kids in under 5 years.

All the posts that say after 3 kids adding another is easy seems wild.

You realize that people are different right? Maybe you can’t handle a fourth kid while others can. Both my SILs have four kids. They seem to be doing just fine. On the other hand I have three kids and there is no way I can handle one more. People differ when it comes to temperament, their lifestyle, the flexibility of their jobs and how much money they have. Both my SILs live in the Midwest and don’t work. They have in laws to help. I live in the DC metro area and my job is super stressful. Also things are more expensive here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who grew up in a family of four-- I think people who say that adding additional kids after 3 is "easy" do not think of their kids as individuals (or at least not all of them), probably rely on a good bit of childcare from their eldest, and better pray none of their kids has special needs in any way. Not just something like ADHD, ASD, or a learning disorder, but even subclinical issues like being slow to warm, mild sensory processing issues, etc.

Look, love is not a finite resource and kids need a lot less space and material goods than modern American consumerist culture currently dictates. But time and energy ARE finite, and the idea that adding a while other person to your family, a child who will be at peak "need," is no big deal is deranged.

I don't trust people who treat that cavalierly.

This may be the most sane post I've ever read on this website. I am one of six, and I firmly believe that no one needs more children than two. I don't care how much you want a big family. There is no way to take care of a child's emotional well being when there is so much need. It's batshit crazy to me that in this time of climate crisis (and when most children make it to adulthood) anyone should be having large families. Just don't do it.

It sounds like you need some therapy for your childhood. I came from a large family (7) as did my DH (6) and we have 4 kids. We are low producers out of our siblings. There is a lot of love and time and the 50+ cousins are all doing well with college, just starting careers, etc. There are definitely some special needs which will be continually worked on/with for life. But when you have an amazing childhood in a large family that is exactly what you want to give your own kids.

Anonymous wrote:As someone who grew up in a family of four-- I think people who say that adding additional kids after 3 is "easy" do not think of their kids as individuals (or at least not all of them), probably rely on a good bit of childcare from their eldest, and better pray none of their kids has special needs in any way. Not just something like ADHD, ASD, or a learning disorder, but even subclinical issues like being slow to warm, mild sensory processing issues, etc.

Look, love is not a finite resource and kids need a lot less space and material goods than modern American consumerist culture currently dictates. But time and energy ARE finite, and the idea that adding a while other person to your family, a child who will be at peak "need," is no big deal is deranged.

I don't trust people who treat that cavalierly.

This may be the most sane post I've ever read on this website. I am one of six, and I firmly believe that no one needs more children than two. I don't care how much you want a big family. There is no way to take care of a child's emotional well being when there is so much need. It's batshit crazy to me that in this time of climate crisis (and when most children make it to adulthood) anyone should be having large families. Just don't do it.

Four is not that hard. I don’t feel like I’m more stressed out than my friends with 3 kids.

Anonymous wrote:I had 3 under 3 when Covid hit. Spaced my 4th out and the oldest will she 7 when she’s born. Always wanted 4 and having 3 bigger kids and one baby doesn’t seem that daunting. Logistically I have to be very on the ball though.

Wow. You had 3 under 3 during Covid? Blew you.

3 can fit across the backseat of most standard vehicles, assuming not all in full carseats at the same time. 4 cannot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had 3 under 3 when Covid hit. Spaced my 4th out and the oldest will she 7 when she’s born. Always wanted 4 and having 3 bigger kids and one baby doesn’t seem that daunting. Logistically I have to be very on the ball though.

OP here - I always thought I would have 4. First two kids are 19 months apart, then 3rd kid is 3.5 years younger than middle. So kids were baby, 3 and 5 when COVID hit. We thought we would then try for baby #4 when kid 3 was 10 months old (like we did with second kid) but COVID was still super in your face and I was traumatized by having 3 kids at home during my maternity leave.

Now I am close to 40 and worried about starting over. Kids are now 3, 6 and 8. Would love another one but also love being able to travel and not having to deal with naps and bottles and diaper. Wonder if I will regret it later on though.

Completely understand this! We’ve been taking some fun trips this summer and enjoying not having to deal with strollers, diapers, bottles and naps. The whole time I’m thinking how different it will be next year. I’ll be 38 when the 4th is born so I knew it was basically now or never and wasn’t even sure I’d get and stay pregnant so threw caution to the wind said what happens happens. Also, when you have three already, you know how quickly those first couple years go by in the grand scheme of things. For me it was worth it to go through that again. And seeing how excited my older 3 are is beautiful. I think a 4th brings a lot of love and joy.

Anonymous wrote:4 kids are exponentially harder than 3.

I found 3 kids to be exponentially harder than 2.

I LOVED being pregnant and the baby stage, but afterwards I couldn't deal with a 4th kid. They all want my attention all the time and it wouldn't be fair to my existing 3 kids. Currrently I have a ton of guilt because I can't play legos with DS, calico critters with DD and also little people with the baby at the same time. The baby wrecks a lot of the older kids' stuff. It's just hard. And how can I teach one math at the same time I'm teaching another to read.

Being pregnant and the baby stage is what stopped me from having a third, and my pregnancies and babies weren't even particularly difficult. If my third (or fourth) could be dropped into my life as a potty-trained 2.5 year old, I'd happily raise more.

That said, my family is happy and complete with the two kids we have.

I haven't found four to be that different from three. Granted, our kids have no major special needs.

When I think of whether to have a fifth, it's not the adding of another person that is the most daunting, but rather the prolonging of having a baby or toddler in the family. We will probably stop at four because we want to be completely past the baby and toddler stages. If I could give birth to a five year old, then I think I'd definitely have one or two more.

Anonymous wrote:I had 3 under 3 when Covid hit. Spaced my 4th out and the oldest will she 7 when she’s born. Always wanted 4 and having 3 bigger kids and one baby doesn’t seem that daunting. Logistically I have to be very on the ball though.

OP here - I always thought I would have 4. First two kids are 19 months apart, then 3rd kid is 3.5 years younger than middle. So kids were baby, 3 and 5 when COVID hit. We thought we would then try for baby #4 when kid 3 was 10 months old (like we did with second kid) but COVID was still super in your face and I was traumatized by having 3 kids at home during my maternity leave.

Now I am close to 40 and worried about starting over. Kids are now 3, 6 and 8. Would love another one but also love being able to travel and not having to deal with naps and bottles and diaper. Wonder if I will regret it later on though.