Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what about the cost of replacement battery? do you guys factor that in?

I’m the one with the thesis. It’s covered for 8 years and unlimited miles with my CPO extended warranty and I can actually cover it for 2 extra years as part of an add on extended warranty from the manufacture that I am considering.

It’s a risk, but my parents have a very old Prius that has over 200k miles on it and the mpg is going strong.

The degradation of the battery has so many factors, several of them are within the owners control. The warranty took a lot of risk out of the equation. There’s still the risk of rapid depreciation in a few years if all these new EVs do have major battery problems. The whole system is changing and we don’t know what’s next. We also don’t know how long the batteries will last. You can’t eliminate risk, you just have to do take reasonable steps to anticipate and mitigate.

But the basic answer on the battery is, we just don’t know. The down side risks get a ton of hype, but it’s far from certain that the batteries won’t last 150-200k miles. We wont know the lifecycle till 10s of thousands of units have aged and by then, the next generation tech won’t have aged either.

ICE cars have been tested for 100 years. The risks are far more predictable, but it’s certain there will be significant repair and service costs over the life cycle of even very reliable cars like Toyotas.

Extended warranty is almost always a bad deal.

It’s like saying home owners insurance is a bad deal because you didn’t use it.

And, this extended warranty will be a bad deal for the manufacturer bc it includes unlimited miles. Parts will undoubtedly need repair before the end of the warranty. It also transfers with a sale, so if I need to sell and someone is squeamish about the age of the battery, it’s covered.

And, I explained in some detail why the extended warranty makes particular sense in the case of new EV tech, particularly with all the electronics in the cabin. You could easily spend half as much as my extended warranty tracking down an electrical issue.

Extended warranties that are marketed and accepted by the manufacturer should be considered for many high priced imports, especially with a lot of sensors and electronics. Even in ICE cars where the engine and transmission can reasonably be expected to go 150k without repair, there are a ton of things that can go wrong. The entry point, even at my local trusted mechanic, to get anything of substance done is $500 with many moderately simple repairs upwards of 1000-1500. $3k on a warranty that goes unlimited miles in todays dollars to pay for repairs 6-7 years from now is a fair deal. You can usually pay for it by not getting some upgraded features or getting a slightly more used car.

Plus, it reduces the fully loaded cost per mile if you’re not having to build in the cost of unexpected failures. The wear and tear calculation now only applies to routine service and energy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keep drinking from the EV juice tub.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-truck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times

Did this guy do ANY research before he dropped 85K (in USD) on that F-150???

He thought he could go camping way off road in it? Did he plan to bring a 5 gallon container of electricity to refuel the truck?

He decided to road trip through vast western states where charging is very limited? Did he even look at a charging map?

Now, he thinks it's a 'scam'...because he can't figure it out.

It's not a scam. It's just not for everyone's situation at this moment in time. I did my research (before spending about 50k LESS than he did ) and got the right (used) vehicle for me. I have a PHEV, a 2017 Chevy Volt, which I charge at home. I am using about 2/3 less gas on my long commute (I get about 45-50 miles on the battery on my 75 mile RT commute). I did some basic research before I got this.

Of course, some Fox watcher at work, first day I drove it, said 'aren't you worried its going to catch fire?' I'm like dude you have never seen a ICE on fire? They do that, no I'm not worried.

I think he had reasonable expectations
What is so wrong with going on a road trip?
Obviously he was not told everything he needed to know
I

Clearly, he did no research. I'm the pp and like I said, I did research on my daily commute and realize that I couldn't charge enough so I chose a phev. He didn't do any research on a major road trip before purchasing a $85,000 vehicle. It's very easy to Google a map of charging stations and he would have seen that there were few to none along his route he wanted to take.

He did do his research
Read the article
What took him by surprise is that the refueling stations did not work as expected

I read it. He didn't do his research! He literally said that he 'can't take it camping off grid' well duh, off grid means you are off electrical lines (unless you have an extensive solar array). And he didn't know it would cost so much to install a charger at home and work? He didn't check with an electrician before he had to spend $6k at home for that? His system had to be an antique because I don't know anyone who has spent anywhere near that. And why did he 'have' to put in a charger at work?

He didn't do his research, made a huge $$$ purchase that wasn't right for him, and calls it a 'scam'. It's not a scam, at all.

On the contrary, based on my recent experience at a dealership when I was looking to purchase an ev, the sales person and the manager assured me that I would not need to install a charger at home because an ordinary outlet was fine. And he is correct, installing a charger for an ev costs a lot of money

As for installing one at his work, I would need to know more about his work to comment further.

No it doesn’t. At least not if you have an electrical panel that’s been the standard for 40ish years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keep drinking from the EV juice tub.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-truck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times

Did this guy do ANY research before he dropped 85K (in USD) on that F-150???

He thought he could go camping way off road in it? Did he plan to bring a 5 gallon container of electricity to refuel the truck?

He decided to road trip through vast western states where charging is very limited? Did he even look at a charging map?

Now, he thinks it's a 'scam'...because he can't figure it out.

It's not a scam. It's just not for everyone's situation at this moment in time. I did my research (before spending about 50k LESS than he did ) and got the right (used) vehicle for me. I have a PHEV, a 2017 Chevy Volt, which I charge at home. I am using about 2/3 less gas on my long commute (I get about 45-50 miles on the battery on my 75 mile RT commute). I did some basic research before I got this.

Of course, some Fox watcher at work, first day I drove it, said 'aren't you worried its going to catch fire?' I'm like dude you have never seen a ICE on fire? They do that, no I'm not worried.

I think he had reasonable expectations
What is so wrong with going on a road trip?
Obviously he was not told everything he needed to know
I

Clearly, he did no research. I'm the pp and like I said, I did research on my daily commute and realize that I couldn't charge enough so I chose a phev. He didn't do any research on a major road trip before purchasing a $85,000 vehicle. It's very easy to Google a map of charging stations and he would have seen that there were few to none along his route he wanted to take.

He did do his research
Read the article
What took him by surprise is that the refueling stations did not work as expected

I read it. He didn't do his research! He literally said that he 'can't take it camping off grid' well duh, off grid means you are off electrical lines (unless you have an extensive solar array). And he didn't know it would cost so much to install a charger at home and work? He didn't check with an electrician before he had to spend $6k at home for that? His system had to be an antique because I don't know anyone who has spent anywhere near that. And why did he 'have' to put in a charger at work?

He didn't do his research, made a huge $$$ purchase that wasn't right for him, and calls it a 'scam'. It's not a scam, at all.

On the contrary, based on my recent experience at a dealership when I was looking to purchase an ev, the sales person and the manager assured me that I would not need to install a charger at home because an ordinary outlet was fine. And he is correct, installing a charger for an ev costs a lot of money

As for installing one at his work, I would need to know more about his work to comment further.

To the extent any of his complaints are "this is too expensive," he almost definitely didn't need to get the most expensive F-150 Lightning, no matter what his work is. They have models that start at $50,000. To get to $115,000, even including the two level 2 chargers he paid for and the heavy-up at his house, he must have bought the Platinum trim, which starts at $91,500.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what about the cost of replacement battery? do you guys factor that in?

I’m the one with the thesis. It’s covered for 8 years and unlimited miles with my CPO extended warranty and I can actually cover it for 2 extra years as part of an add on extended warranty from the manufacture that I am considering.

It’s a risk, but my parents have a very old Prius that has over 200k miles on it and the mpg is going strong.

The degradation of the battery has so many factors, several of them are within the owners control. The warranty took a lot of risk out of the equation. There’s still the risk of rapid depreciation in a few years if all these new EVs do have major battery problems. The whole system is changing and we don’t know what’s next. We also don’t know how long the batteries will last. You can’t eliminate risk, you just have to do take reasonable steps to anticipate and mitigate.

But the basic answer on the battery is, we just don’t know. The down side risks get a ton of hype, but it’s far from certain that the batteries won’t last 150-200k miles. We wont know the lifecycle till 10s of thousands of units have aged and by then, the next generation tech won’t have aged either.

ICE cars have been tested for 100 years. The risks are far more predictable, but it’s certain there will be significant repair and service costs over the life cycle of even very reliable cars like Toyotas.

Extended warranty is almost always a bad deal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keep drinking from the EV juice tub.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-truck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times

Did this guy do ANY research before he dropped 85K (in USD) on that F-150???

He thought he could go camping way off road in it? Did he plan to bring a 5 gallon container of electricity to refuel the truck?

He decided to road trip through vast western states where charging is very limited? Did he even look at a charging map?

Now, he thinks it's a 'scam'...because he can't figure it out.

It's not a scam. It's just not for everyone's situation at this moment in time. I did my research (before spending about 50k LESS than he did ) and got the right (used) vehicle for me. I have a PHEV, a 2017 Chevy Volt, which I charge at home. I am using about 2/3 less gas on my long commute (I get about 45-50 miles on the battery on my 75 mile RT commute). I did some basic research before I got this.

Of course, some Fox watcher at work, first day I drove it, said 'aren't you worried its going to catch fire?' I'm like dude you have never seen a ICE on fire? They do that, no I'm not worried.

I think he had reasonable expectations
What is so wrong with going on a road trip?
Obviously he was not told everything he needed to know
I

Clearly, he did no research. I'm the pp and like I said, I did research on my daily commute and realize that I couldn't charge enough so I chose a phev. He didn't do any research on a major road trip before purchasing a $85,000 vehicle. It's very easy to Google a map of charging stations and he would have seen that there were few to none along his route he wanted to take.

He did do his research
Read the article
What took him by surprise is that the refueling stations did not work as expected

I read it. He didn't do his research! He literally said that he 'can't take it camping off grid' well duh, off grid means you are off electrical lines (unless you have an extensive solar array). And he didn't know it would cost so much to install a charger at home and work? He didn't check with an electrician before he had to spend $6k at home for that? His system had to be an antique because I don't know anyone who has spent anywhere near that. And why did he 'have' to put in a charger at work?

He didn't do his research, made a huge $$$ purchase that wasn't right for him, and calls it a 'scam'. It's not a scam, at all.

On the contrary, based on my recent experience at a dealership when I was looking to purchase an ev, the sales person and the manager assured me that I would not need to install a charger at home because an ordinary outlet was fine. And he is correct, installing a charger for an ev costs a lot of money

As for installing one at his work, I would need to know more about his work to comment further.

Taking what a salesperson says at face value is not research. And, you 'can' charge an EV in an ordinary outlet (I do) but they charge at about 4 miles an hour so you need to figure if that's enough for you based on how much you might drive. Research...and no, it's not usually anywhere near $6k to install a home level 2 charger. It's usually under 2k, but again he didn't research first. I still don't know why he 'needed' a charger at work. With a range of 230-320 miles (depending on option) you'd think he'd be able to get to work and back.

So, he clearly didn't do his research and now calls it a 'scam'. It's not a scam, it's a him problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keep drinking from the EV juice tub.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-truck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times

Did this guy do ANY research before he dropped 85K (in USD) on that F-150???

He thought he could go camping way off road in it? Did he plan to bring a 5 gallon container of electricity to refuel the truck?

He decided to road trip through vast western states where charging is very limited? Did he even look at a charging map?

Now, he thinks it's a 'scam'...because he can't figure it out.

It's not a scam. It's just not for everyone's situation at this moment in time. I did my research (before spending about 50k LESS than he did ) and got the right (used) vehicle for me. I have a PHEV, a 2017 Chevy Volt, which I charge at home. I am using about 2/3 less gas on my long commute (I get about 45-50 miles on the battery on my 75 mile RT commute). I did some basic research before I got this.

Of course, some Fox watcher at work, first day I drove it, said 'aren't you worried its going to catch fire?' I'm like dude you have never seen a ICE on fire? They do that, no I'm not worried.

I think he had reasonable expectations
What is so wrong with going on a road trip?
Obviously he was not told everything he needed to know
I

Clearly, he did no research. I'm the pp and like I said, I did research on my daily commute and realize that I couldn't charge enough so I chose a phev. He didn't do any research on a major road trip before purchasing a $85,000 vehicle. It's very easy to Google a map of charging stations and he would have seen that there were few to none along his route he wanted to take.

He did do his research
Read the article
What took him by surprise is that the refueling stations did not work as expected

I read it. He didn't do his research! He literally said that he 'can't take it camping off grid' well duh, off grid means you are off electrical lines (unless you have an extensive solar array). And he didn't know it would cost so much to install a charger at home and work? He didn't check with an electrician before he had to spend $6k at home for that? His system had to be an antique because I don't know anyone who has spent anywhere near that. And why did he 'have' to put in a charger at work?

He didn't do his research, made a huge $$$ purchase that wasn't right for him, and calls it a 'scam'. It's not a scam, at all.

On the contrary, based on my recent experience at a dealership when I was looking to purchase an ev, the sales person and the manager assured me that I would not need to install a charger at home because an ordinary outlet was fine. And he is correct, installing a charger for an ev costs a lot of money

As for installing one at his work, I would need to know more about his work to comment further.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keep drinking from the EV juice tub.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-truck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times

Did this guy do ANY research before he dropped 85K (in USD) on that F-150???

He thought he could go camping way off road in it? Did he plan to bring a 5 gallon container of electricity to refuel the truck?

He decided to road trip through vast western states where charging is very limited? Did he even look at a charging map?

Now, he thinks it's a 'scam'...because he can't figure it out.

It's not a scam. It's just not for everyone's situation at this moment in time. I did my research (before spending about 50k LESS than he did ) and got the right (used) vehicle for me. I have a PHEV, a 2017 Chevy Volt, which I charge at home. I am using about 2/3 less gas on my long commute (I get about 45-50 miles on the battery on my 75 mile RT commute). I did some basic research before I got this.

Of course, some Fox watcher at work, first day I drove it, said 'aren't you worried its going to catch fire?' I'm like dude you have never seen a ICE on fire? They do that, no I'm not worried.

I think he had reasonable expectations
What is so wrong with going on a road trip?
Obviously he was not told everything he needed to know
I

Clearly, he did no research. I'm the pp and like I said, I did research on my daily commute and realize that I couldn't charge enough so I chose a phev. He didn't do any research on a major road trip before purchasing a $85,000 vehicle. It's very easy to Google a map of charging stations and he would have seen that there were few to none along his route he wanted to take.

He did do his research
Read the article
What took him by surprise is that the refueling stations did not work as expected

I read it. He didn't do his research! He literally said that he 'can't take it camping off grid' well duh, off grid means you are off electrical lines (unless you have an extensive solar array). And he didn't know it would cost so much to install a charger at home and work? He didn't check with an electrician before he had to spend $6k at home for that? His system had to be an antique because I don't know anyone who has spent anywhere near that. And why did he 'have' to put in a charger at work?

He didn't do his research, made a huge $$$ purchase that wasn't right for him, and calls it a 'scam'. It's not a scam, at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keep drinking from the EV juice tub.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-truck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times

Did this guy do ANY research before he dropped 85K (in USD) on that F-150???

He thought he could go camping way off road in it? Did he plan to bring a 5 gallon container of electricity to refuel the truck?

He decided to road trip through vast western states where charging is very limited? Did he even look at a charging map?

Now, he thinks it's a 'scam'...because he can't figure it out.

It's not a scam. It's just not for everyone's situation at this moment in time. I did my research (before spending about 50k LESS than he did ) and got the right (used) vehicle for me. I have a PHEV, a 2017 Chevy Volt, which I charge at home. I am using about 2/3 less gas on my long commute (I get about 45-50 miles on the battery on my 75 mile RT commute). I did some basic research before I got this.

Of course, some Fox watcher at work, first day I drove it, said 'aren't you worried its going to catch fire?' I'm like dude you have never seen a ICE on fire? They do that, no I'm not worried.

I think he had reasonable expectations
What is so wrong with going on a road trip?
Obviously he was not told everything he needed to know
I

Clearly, he did no research. I'm the pp and like I said, I did research on my daily commute and realize that I couldn't charge enough so I chose a phev. He didn't do any research on a major road trip before purchasing a $85,000 vehicle. It's very easy to Google a map of charging stations and he would have seen that there were few to none along his route he wanted to take.

He did do his research
Read the article
What took him by surprise is that the refueling stations did not work as expected

Ford is losing 60K+ for every EV it sells.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2023/05/13/ford-loses-this-whopping-amount-of-money-on-each-e/

Volt owner PP here, the volts been around for some time and have a good track record with the batteries, but yes of course it's a risk. However, my mom's car is a 2017 kia, so same age as my car, and last summer her engine blew! It's one of the ones involved in the recall and lawsuit. So things happen to ice cars too.

Anonymous wrote:what about the cost of replacement battery? do you guys factor that in?

I’m the one with the thesis. It’s covered for 8 years and unlimited miles with my CPO extended warranty and I can actually cover it for 2 extra years as part of an add on extended warranty from the manufacture that I am considering.

It’s a risk, but my parents have a very old Prius that has over 200k miles on it and the mpg is going strong.

The degradation of the battery has so many factors, several of them are within the owners control. The warranty took a lot of risk out of the equation. There’s still the risk of rapid depreciation in a few years if all these new EVs do have major battery problems. The whole system is changing and we don’t know what’s next. We also don’t know how long the batteries will last. You can’t eliminate risk, you just have to do take reasonable steps to anticipate and mitigate.

But the basic answer on the battery is, we just don’t know. The down side risks get a ton of hype, but it’s far from certain that the batteries won’t last 150-200k miles. We wont know the lifecycle till 10s of thousands of units have aged and by then, the next generation tech won’t have aged either.

ICE cars have been tested for 100 years. The risks are far more predictable, but it’s certain there will be significant repair and service costs over the life cycle of even very reliable cars like Toyotas.

what about the cost of replacement battery? do you guys factor that in?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keep drinking from the EV juice tub.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-truck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times

Did this guy do ANY research before he dropped 85K (in USD) on that F-150???

He thought he could go camping way off road in it? Did he plan to bring a 5 gallon container of electricity to refuel the truck?

He decided to road trip through vast western states where charging is very limited? Did he even look at a charging map?

Now, he thinks it's a 'scam'...because he can't figure it out.

It's not a scam. It's just not for everyone's situation at this moment in time. I did my research (before spending about 50k LESS than he did ) and got the right (used) vehicle for me. I have a PHEV, a 2017 Chevy Volt, which I charge at home. I am using about 2/3 less gas on my long commute (I get about 45-50 miles on the battery on my 75 mile RT commute). I did some basic research before I got this.

Of course, some Fox watcher at work, first day I drove it, said 'aren't you worried its going to catch fire?' I'm like dude you have never seen a ICE on fire? They do that, no I'm not worried.

I think he had reasonable expectations
What is so wrong with going on a road trip?
Obviously he was not told everything he needed to know
I

Clearly, he did no research. I'm the pp and like I said, I did research on my daily commute and realize that I couldn't charge enough so I chose a phev. He didn't do any research on a major road trip before purchasing a $85,000 vehicle. It's very easy to Google a map of charging stations and he would have seen that there were few to none along his route he wanted to take.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keep drinking from the EV juice tub.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-truck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times

Did this guy do ANY research before he dropped 85K (in USD) on that F-150???

He thought he could go camping way off road in it? Did he plan to bring a 5 gallon container of electricity to refuel the truck?

He decided to road trip through vast western states where charging is very limited? Did he even look at a charging map?

Now, he thinks it's a 'scam'...because he can't figure it out.

It's not a scam. It's just not for everyone's situation at this moment in time. I did my research (before spending about 50k LESS than he did ) and got the right (used) vehicle for me. I have a PHEV, a 2017 Chevy Volt, which I charge at home. I am using about 2/3 less gas on my long commute (I get about 45-50 miles on the battery on my 75 mile RT commute). I did some basic research before I got this.

Of course, some Fox watcher at work, first day I drove it, said 'aren't you worried its going to catch fire?' I'm like dude you have never seen a ICE on fire? They do that, no I'm not worried.

I think he had reasonable expectations
What is so wrong with going on a road trip?
Obviously he was not told everything he needed to know
I

Don’t defend the guy. Any time you go on a road trip through sort of countryside you need to be prepared. Not planning for refueling was only one of his miscalculations.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keep drinking from the EV juice tub.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-truck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times

Did this guy do ANY research before he dropped 85K (in USD) on that F-150???

He thought he could go camping way off road in it? Did he plan to bring a 5 gallon container of electricity to refuel the truck?

He decided to road trip through vast western states where charging is very limited? Did he even look at a charging map?

Now, he thinks it's a 'scam'...because he can't figure it out.

It's not a scam. It's just not for everyone's situation at this moment in time. I did my research (before spending about 50k LESS than he did ) and got the right (used) vehicle for me. I have a PHEV, a 2017 Chevy Volt, which I charge at home. I am using about 2/3 less gas on my long commute (I get about 45-50 miles on the battery on my 75 mile RT commute). I did some basic research before I got this.

Of course, some Fox watcher at work, first day I drove it, said 'aren't you worried its going to catch fire?' I'm like dude you have never seen a ICE on fire? They do that, no I'm not worried.

I think he had reasonable expectations
What is so wrong with going on a road trip?
Obviously he was not told everything he needed to know
I