Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They were the correct age on June 1st. Too bad for other kids. Summer birthdays win the day in summer swim!

Agree - every birth date has its pros and cons. It is what it is.

I think it annoys people because kids are named 11-12 year champion or whatever, but they are technically 13. Something about 13 year olds getting an award that has “12” written on it really rubs people the wrong way.

If you kept the June 1 cutoff and called the groups something other than 8u, 10u etc, it would help. Like Squirts, Junior I, Junior II, Senior I and Senior II, for example. Those names are kind of dumb, but you get the idea. Then you could have a Junior I champ and everyone would know that the kid was born between x and y dates and is possibly 11, but they wouldn’t get so irate that they are called a 10u champ.

Pp. Just adding that I guess I’m sympathetic to parents of summer born kids asking “can my kid have one small thing”, but I think having a rule that is consistent and convenient for a short summer league trumps all that. I like the age rule for club swim but it would be too hard for beleaguered summer volunteers to keep track of. June 1 makes sense to me.

I agree with you that I think what rubs people the wrong way is calling a 13 year old an 11-12 record holder or whatever. Summer swim is so short that keeping a cutoff is not that big of a deal. The best kids rise to the top regardless of the age cutoff. Although I don’t think aging up on your birthday would have any impact on the volunteers.

Youth hockey used to call their players mites, squirts etc. but a few years ago decided to change the names to 8u, 10u. So technically in the spring there are kids who already turned 9 competing in the 8u division (because age cutoff is Jan 1 but the season goes Sep through March) but I never hear parents complaining about that

I think a difference is in team sports, you usually don’t know details of the opposing players so you don’t have obsessive parents scrutinizing birth dates.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They were the correct age on June 1st. Too bad for other kids. Summer birthdays win the day in summer swim!

Agree - every birth date has its pros and cons. It is what it is.

I think it annoys people because kids are named 11-12 year champion or whatever, but they are technically 13. Something about 13 year olds getting an award that has “12” written on it really rubs people the wrong way.

If you kept the June 1 cutoff and called the groups something other than 8u, 10u etc, it would help. Like Squirts, Junior I, Junior II, Senior I and Senior II, for example. Those names are kind of dumb, but you get the idea. Then you could have a Junior I champ and everyone would know that the kid was born between x and y dates and is possibly 11, but they wouldn’t get so irate that they are called a 10u champ.

Pp. Just adding that I guess I’m sympathetic to parents of summer born kids asking “can my kid have one small thing”, but I think having a rule that is consistent and convenient for a short summer league trumps all that. I like the age rule for club swim but it would be too hard for beleaguered summer volunteers to keep track of. June 1 makes sense to me.

The summer birthday parents asking this are asking for the June 1 to stay the same.

I actually have an early spring and mid fall bday kids. Both do club swim and stopped summer swim to focus on long course a few years ago. The reason I think June 1 makes sense is because it’s easy for the people running the show. As a parent who volunteer and officiates a ton for swim, soccer, debate etc, I’m on the side of the parents!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They were the correct age on June 1st. Too bad for other kids. Summer birthdays win the day in summer swim!

Agree - every birth date has its pros and cons. It is what it is.

I think it annoys people because kids are named 11-12 year champion or whatever, but they are technically 13. Something about 13 year olds getting an award that has “12” written on it really rubs people the wrong way.

If you kept the June 1 cutoff and called the groups something other than 8u, 10u etc, it would help. Like Squirts, Junior I, Junior II, Senior I and Senior II, for example. Those names are kind of dumb, but you get the idea. Then you could have a Junior I champ and everyone would know that the kid was born between x and y dates and is possibly 11, but they wouldn’t get so irate that they are called a 10u champ.

Pp. Just adding that I guess I’m sympathetic to parents of summer born kids asking “can my kid have one small thing”, but I think having a rule that is consistent and convenient for a short summer league trumps all that. I like the age rule for club swim but it would be too hard for beleaguered summer volunteers to keep track of. June 1 makes sense to me.

I agree with you that I think what rubs people the wrong way is calling a 13 year old an 11-12 record holder or whatever. Summer swim is so short that keeping a cutoff is not that big of a deal. The best kids rise to the top regardless of the age cutoff. Although I don’t think aging up on your birthday would have any impact on the volunteers.

Youth hockey used to call their players mites, squirts etc. but a few years ago decided to change the names to 8u, 10u. So technically in the spring there are kids who already turned 9 competing in the 8u division (because age cutoff is Jan 1 but the season goes Sep through March) but I never hear parents complaining about that

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They were the correct age on June 1st. Too bad for other kids. Summer birthdays win the day in summer swim!

Agree - every birth date has its pros and cons. It is what it is.

I think it annoys people because kids are named 11-12 year champion or whatever, but they are technically 13. Something about 13 year olds getting an award that has “12” written on it really rubs people the wrong way.

If you kept the June 1 cutoff and called the groups something other than 8u, 10u etc, it would help. Like Squirts, Junior I, Junior II, Senior I and Senior II, for example. Those names are kind of dumb, but you get the idea. Then you could have a Junior I champ and everyone would know that the kid was born between x and y dates and is possibly 11, but they wouldn’t get so irate that they are called a 10u champ.

Pp. Just adding that I guess I’m sympathetic to parents of summer born kids asking “can my kid have one small thing”, but I think having a rule that is consistent and convenient for a short summer league trumps all that. I like the age rule for club swim but it would be too hard for beleaguered summer volunteers to keep track of. June 1 makes sense to me.

I agree with you that I think what rubs people the wrong way is calling a 13 year old an 11-12 record holder or whatever. Summer swim is so short that keeping a cutoff is not that big of a deal. The best kids rise to the top regardless of the age cutoff. Although I don’t think aging up on your birthday would have any impact on the volunteers.

Oh, I was under the impression it would cause mass chaos! Ha. Well, my kids’ club team isn’t huge and aging up can makes relays tricky, so there’s also that issue for summer swim. Unless they are mixed age.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They were the correct age on June 1st. Too bad for other kids. Summer birthdays win the day in summer swim!

Agree - every birth date has its pros and cons. It is what it is.

I think it annoys people because kids are named 11-12 year champion or whatever, but they are technically 13. Something about 13 year olds getting an award that has “12” written on it really rubs people the wrong way.

If you kept the June 1 cutoff and called the groups something other than 8u, 10u etc, it would help. Like Squirts, Junior I, Junior II, Senior I and Senior II, for example. Those names are kind of dumb, but you get the idea. Then you could have a Junior I champ and everyone would know that the kid was born between x and y dates and is possibly 11, but they wouldn’t get so irate that they are called a 10u champ.

Pp. Just adding that I guess I’m sympathetic to parents of summer born kids asking “can my kid have one small thing”, but I think having a rule that is consistent and convenient for a short summer league trumps all that. I like the age rule for club swim but it would be too hard for beleaguered summer volunteers to keep track of. June 1 makes sense to me.

The summer birthday parents asking this are asking for the June 1 to stay the same.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They were the correct age on June 1st. Too bad for other kids. Summer birthdays win the day in summer swim!

Agree - every birth date has its pros and cons. It is what it is.

I think it annoys people because kids are named 11-12 year champion or whatever, but they are technically 13. Something about 13 year olds getting an award that has “12” written on it really rubs people the wrong way.

If you kept the June 1 cutoff and called the groups something other than 8u, 10u etc, it would help. Like Squirts, Junior I, Junior II, Senior I and Senior II, for example. Those names are kind of dumb, but you get the idea. Then you could have a Junior I champ and everyone would know that the kid was born between x and y dates and is possibly 11, but they wouldn’t get so irate that they are called a 10u champ.

I don't think that's it. The vast majority of the kids on my son's U13 soccer team were 13 at the tournaments at the end of the year. No no one complains about this. It's just parents whose kid happens to be disadvantaged by this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They were the correct age on June 1st. Too bad for other kids. Summer birthdays win the day in summer swim!

Agree - every birth date has its pros and cons. It is what it is.

I think it annoys people because kids are named 11-12 year champion or whatever, but they are technically 13. Something about 13 year olds getting an award that has “12” written on it really rubs people the wrong way.

If you kept the June 1 cutoff and called the groups something other than 8u, 10u etc, it would help. Like Squirts, Junior I, Junior II, Senior I and Senior II, for example. Those names are kind of dumb, but you get the idea. Then you could have a Junior I champ and everyone would know that the kid was born between x and y dates and is possibly 11, but they wouldn’t get so irate that they are called a 10u champ.

Pp. Just adding that I guess I’m sympathetic to parents of summer born kids asking “can my kid have one small thing”, but I think having a rule that is consistent and convenient for a short summer league trumps all that. I like the age rule for club swim but it would be too hard for beleaguered summer volunteers to keep track of. June 1 makes sense to me.

I agree with you that I think what rubs people the wrong way is calling a 13 year old an 11-12 record holder or whatever. Summer swim is so short that keeping a cutoff is not that big of a deal. The best kids rise to the top regardless of the age cutoff. Although I don’t think aging up on your birthday would have any impact on the volunteers.

Just to expose you to another side of age group chaos: in girls’ gymnastics kids compete by level with placement determined within their age group. Except that at every meet (other than elite or elite qualifiers), girls are in different age groups. The take the amount of competitors in an entire level and divide it into groups so that it is relatively even compared to other levels. Each group is a span of birthdates. So in one meet my daughter might compete against girls who are within 2 weeks of her birthdate, but depending on the number entrants at another meet, she might be competing within an 18 month-2 year age span. She has several rivals with close birthdays, so sometimes she happens to be in a different age group and can easily win, and other times they’re all together and are scoring within very close margins of one another. Girls who advance quickly/slowly and are young/old for their level might win a ton just because their level is atypical for their age even with scores that are far less competitive than other age divisions. It’s so arbitrary and dependent on luck that she focuses on skills and improvement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They were the correct age on June 1st. Too bad for other kids. Summer birthdays win the day in summer swim!

Agree - every birth date has its pros and cons. It is what it is.

I think it annoys people because kids are named 11-12 year champion or whatever, but they are technically 13. Something about 13 year olds getting an award that has “12” written on it really rubs people the wrong way.

If you kept the June 1 cutoff and called the groups something other than 8u, 10u etc, it would help. Like Squirts, Junior I, Junior II, Senior I and Senior II, for example. Those names are kind of dumb, but you get the idea. Then you could have a Junior I champ and everyone would know that the kid was born between x and y dates and is possibly 11, but they wouldn’t get so irate that they are called a 10u champ.

Pp. Just adding that I guess I’m sympathetic to parents of summer born kids asking “can my kid have one small thing”, but I think having a rule that is consistent and convenient for a short summer league trumps all that. I like the age rule for club swim but it would be too hard for beleaguered summer volunteers to keep track of. June 1 makes sense to me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They were the correct age on June 1st. Too bad for other kids. Summer birthdays win the day in summer swim!

Agree - every birth date has its pros and cons. It is what it is.

I think it annoys people because kids are named 11-12 year champion or whatever, but they are technically 13. Something about 13 year olds getting an award that has “12” written on it really rubs people the wrong way.

If you kept the June 1 cutoff and called the groups something other than 8u, 10u etc, it would help. Like Squirts, Junior I, Junior II, Senior I and Senior II, for example. Those names are kind of dumb, but you get the idea. Then you could have a Junior I champ and everyone would know that the kid was born between x and y dates and is possibly 11, but they wouldn’t get so irate that they are called a 10u champ.

The “50s in the middle of the season” argument is where you lose me. Our league added a couple of special distance meets this summer with 50s as the minimum distance for 8& unders. The kids figured out flip turns and 50s in a few days and had times that were competitive with 9-10 B swimmers. And this includes my late spring 8 year old who was in heats with “8 year olds” who are 11 months older than her.

Kids who can’t pull off one 50 in a meet probably should be doing minis and not 8 & unders.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two summer birthday kids and I can tell you that summer swim is literally the only world in which that is an advantageous birthdate. It sucks for everything else.

Read Malcolm Gladwell’s book - outliers - for some perspective. It’s not just summer swim.

In short, move on. Summer swim is like this nationwide.

+2 Summer swim is the only time my summer birthday kid has an advantage. School uses Sept 1 and many other sports use Jan 1. If you want to argue that there shouldn't be cutoffs at all, I don't know what to say to you. Cutoff dates are pretty standard in life. I agree with NVSL's disbanding of their aging up rule. MCSL uses a straight cutoff too.
'

+1. Please let my June 12 kid have one thing that is to his advantage.

Anonymous wrote:I have two summer birthday kids and I can tell you that summer swim is literally the only world in which that is an advantageous birthdate. It sucks for everything else.

Read Malcolm Gladwell’s book - outliers - for some perspective. It’s not just summer swim.

In short, move on. Summer swim is like this nationwide.

+2 Summer swim is the only time my summer birthday kid has an advantage. School uses Sept 1 and many other sports use Jan 1. If you want to argue that there shouldn't be cutoffs at all, I don't know what to say to you. Cutoff dates are pretty standard in life. I agree with NVSL's disbanding of their aging up rule. MCSL uses a straight cutoff too.
'

Anonymous wrote:I have two summer birthday kids and I can tell you that summer swim is literally the only world in which that is an advantageous birthdate. It sucks for everything else.

Read Malcolm Gladwell’s book - outliers - for some perspective. It’s not just summer swim.

In short, move on. Summer swim is like this nationwide.

As a parent of a summer birthday kid who was not redshirted for school, I agree.

Serious swimmers are not getting college scholarships based on NVSL times where there are no starting blocks and volunteers with stopwatches for timing.

For young kids, I think it’s pretty harsh to expect a 9yr old to switch from swimming 25s to 50s (with flip turns) in the middle of a 6 week season. Unlike club team where they know it’s coming and have been training for the transition.

I know of 0 other sports or activities where my child is advantaged by a July BD where he will graduate from HS at age 17. Beyond sports, every year there are camps his friends go to that he cannot because of the minimum age. There will be a summer when all his friends will be able to get jobs and earn money when he cannot. I had a late May BD in a district with a June 1 cutoff, so I know about being the youngest. I didn’t hold my kid back because he was ready and he runs circles around his grade level peers academically. Summer swim is short and fun. Let the June/July birthday kids have this one thing where they can feel like winners for a few Saturdays a year.

I have a kid with an end of May birthday and one with an August birthday. Guess who is swimming in Divisionals? My May birthday kid who is at the the very youngest end of her age bracket (i.e., she has another year before she moves up).