How is she sleeping? Is she going to bed at the same time/with the same routines as at home? Does she nap at home? Is she able to nap at the campsite?

I am not discounting the PPs—they have excellent ideas and advice—but I know everything is heightened for me (and DS) when I am exhausted. And maintaining a sleep routine for DS was critical to having an enjoyable experience when he was young (and if we’re being honest, it still is).

Is there any way you could adjust things to get her better sleep?

As others have chimed in, when I read your post it felt like your child is having sensory and self regulation issues. Could be nothing, but could be worth exploring further. My DD with ASD is like this. But we’ve learned and she’s learned how to be more flexible with situations and how to regulate better when things upset her routine or order.

Might be worthwhile getting evaluated. That can take time so maybe OT in the meantime can work on these skills.

So happy with some of these other nuanced responses! OP, I also have had my moments of “what am I doing wrong, it must be everything!!” with my oldest. I didn’t realize until around 4 how different she was from other kids; the preschool teachers clued me in and I eventually also realized we had been accommodating more than ideal. But you have to ease off it and also, to some extent, ask yourself which accommodations are problematic. My kids have never been camping and probably never will because we all all crap sleepers and I don’t want to have to deal with the suffering after a night in a tent. I think that’s fine. But getting used to being a tiny bit wet, or helping her figure out how to deal with being wet on her own before kindergarten is a good idea. Just survive this trip and think about it at home when you are calm.

FWIW my kid ended up with ADHD and anxiety diagnoses. But therapy and medication (and maturity!) have helped so much. Today someone referred to her as “such an easy kid” and I nearly fell out of my chair. It’s always good to get professional help when you need it. Good luck!

OP, you are not a bad parent. But it does sound like your 4 yo might be struggling. I have a 4 yo that has similar struggles. She has been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder and doing therapy for that. She also does OT to help with emotional regulation and frustration tolerance. You could consider doing an OT evaluation.

Anonymous wrote:OP one thing I am learning to detangle for myself is that:

“You’re too indulgent and the child is spoiled” isn’t really helpful.

But “your child may be anxious and the accommodations you’re providing to avoid meltdowns can make the problem worse in the long run” might be true.

And the behaviors involved overlap. The solutions are different. Your child doesn’t need a spanking. Your child might need you to remove some of these accommodations and learn in order to learn to live through their painful emotions, and you can support them while they do that in other ways without feeling like you’re a failure because the painful emotions are happening.

Super smart comment, so glad someone said this.

I have a similar sort of child, OP. I have been there, and definitely went through a period of accommodation at 3/4 because the rigidity and sensitivity was so intense and to a great degree I was just trying to get through the day. But over time I did have to figure out other strategies, learn to set limits, and force independence and some resilience. I think a lot of this is person specific (what works for one child or one parent might not suit another child/parent duo due to personality or family dynamics), but here are a couple things that I learned that helped me a lot:

1) Radical acceptance of her feelings. A lot of the accommodation happens because of my OWN anxiety at seeing my child distressed. So I'm accommodating because she is so reactive and so sensitive and those reactions are literally painful to bear and I need them to stop. So I had to really work on my own tolerance for just accepting her feelings, including all the negative ones. She's mad, she's annoyed, she hates me, she feels like no one loves her, she thinks no one listens, etc. etc. I just learn to accept them so that seeing her express these feelings does not immediately lead to that panicky feeling inside like "what can I do to make it stop?" I can just say, "ok, you're mad, I see that. You can be mad. But then you can either change your clothes or be okay with wearing damp clothes because we don't have a dryer here. Let me know what you decided. Accepting her feelings allowed me to be the parent instead of just trying to make the feelings stop.

2) No more standoffs. Ever. Ok, I lied -- she's six and we still sometimes have standoffs. But I work hard to avoid them, walk away from them, find a third way out, whatever I can. Arguing/negotiating with a 4 year old SUCKS -- they have nothing to lose and are not beholden to things like etiquette or logic. So I don't do it. When I find myself getting drawn in, I step back and think if there's a way to sidestep the argument ("we don't have to decide right now -- let's figure it out in the morning") or to just let her win (I do this when the consequences will be hers, like when she doesn't want to wear shorts on a hot day) or to turn it into a joke or something (there is a Bluey episode about "squabbling" and sometimes I reference it to stop the "squabble"). But I don't just engage in these back and forth with her because it's miserable and gets us nowhere.

Good luck, having been through this over the last few years, I definitely understand the level of exhaustion you are at with it. It's so hard. But it really does get better, though I do think you'll need to find some new approaches to resolving issues with her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is very clearly anxiety, but at such a high level, and demonstrated for so long (prior to the trip) that I would request an evaluation from a developmental pediatrician, OP.

Inflexibility and anxiety are red flags for autism. Please don't be scared by that diagnosis! I have lots of high-functioning autistic people in my family, and around me. The adults are successful individuals with families, and the kids I know, including my own, are good students with perfectly fine career potential.

But it takes a lot more parenting to get them to that point, and that's why you need professional help and services. Bear in mind that you will probably face a diagnosis of anxiety, first, since that it the most obvious symptom. High-functioning autism can take years to diagnose.

Good luck. THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT.

Terrible take. She’s an indulged only child. At home they cater everything to her needs and whims but on this trip she didn’t get that and she didn’t like it.

PP you replied to. The indulged child scenario would really be the best case one, people. I did not address it because PPs had already done so. I am addressing the other possibility - the one where parents are FORCED to indulge an inflexible child's demands because otherwise the child will sabotage all outings, and all activities, due to their particular mental make-up. That profile is an autistic one. Parents in that scenario are unfairly blamed by people like you, and on top of struggling to find help, they are also shamed by their community. It can lead to a delay in diagnosis, since people around them distract them with another option, and it lead to child abuse, when the frantic parent, desperate to "control their child", as their relatives or friends or teachers demand, start implementing extreme measures to ensure compliance. And it alienates autistic children even further in the process.

I wish I didn't know all this, PP. You're lucky, and other posters are lucky, that you can just gaily zero in on "oh, you're just a lax parent, get your act together!". Because some parents try that for years and then realize their child has autism. And all the while you're on your merry way, judging all the parents of children with special needs.

Lucky you.

+1 ah to be the parents who think their flexible, go with the flow kid who does well in school with minimal support is mostly because of their great parenting!! If I only had one of my kids, I may think the same. He’s flexible, chill, just does what he needs to do without much issue most of the time. My other child has ADHD and it’s a whole other ballgame. My son’s struggles are different than op but boy do I empathize.

It’s really easy to judge when you aren’t parenting a neurodivergent child. And it’s really nice to feel like everything you do is why your kid is so great. We all want to feel like that because this gig is hard and dang if we don’t hope what we’re doing matters! And it does. But so does temperament and often the parents parenting neurodivergent kids are working 5x as hard just to get to decent functioning. Good luck op, I’m sure your daughter is wonderful and with your support will do great.

Anonymous wrote:OP one thing I am learning to detangle for myself is that:

“You’re too indulgent and the child is spoiled” isn’t really helpful.

But “your child may be anxious and the accommodations you’re providing to avoid meltdowns can make the problem worse in the long run” might be true.

And the behaviors involved overlap. The solutions are different. Your child doesn’t need a spanking. Your child might need you to remove some of these accommodations and learn in order to learn to live through their painful emotions, and you can support them while they do that in other ways without feeling like you’re a failure because the painful emotions are happening.

I agree with this post. I am so encouraged by many of these responses. The PPs who only say "your child is over-indulged" clearly have never parented an anxious, ADHD, autistic etc. child but those of us who are/have are well-served to keep exploring ways to navigate this. And seeking support.

And it can be really hard, but sometimes you have to let your kid go through those painful emotions.

Good luck, OP.

I would say she’s probably neurodivergent and you just haven’t realized it yet. Kids with extreme sensitivities and emotional “outbursts” aren’t just being “spoiled” or catered to, they’re often somewhere on the spectrum. It’s not anything you did! You parented the child you had

4 yos need routines. Vacations are routine disruptors. This will pass

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is very clearly anxiety, but at such a high level, and demonstrated for so long (prior to the trip) that I would request an evaluation from a developmental pediatrician, OP.

Inflexibility and anxiety are red flags for autism. Please don't be scared by that diagnosis! I have lots of high-functioning autistic people in my family, and around me. The adults are successful individuals with families, and the kids I know, including my own, are good students with perfectly fine career potential.

But it takes a lot more parenting to get them to that point, and that's why you need professional help and services. Bear in mind that you will probably face a diagnosis of anxiety, first, since that it the most obvious symptom. High-functioning autism can take years to diagnose.

Good luck. THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT.

Terrible take. She’s an indulged only child. At home they cater everything to her needs and whims but on this trip she didn’t get that and she didn’t like it.

PP you replied to. The indulged child scenario would really be the best case one, people. I did not address it because PPs had already done so. I am addressing the other possibility - the one where parents are FORCED to indulge an inflexible child's demands because otherwise the child will sabotage all outings, and all activities, due to their particular mental make-up. That profile is an autistic one. Parents in that scenario are unfairly blamed by people like you, and on top of struggling to find help, they are also shamed by their community. It can lead to a delay in diagnosis, since people around them distract them with another option, and it lead to child abuse, when the frantic parent, desperate to "control their child", as their relatives or friends or teachers demand, start implementing extreme measures to ensure compliance. And it alienates autistic children even further in the process.

I wish I didn't know all this, PP. You're lucky, and other posters are lucky, that you can just gaily zero in on "oh, you're just a lax parent, get your act together!". Because some parents try that for years and then realize their child has autism. And all the while you're on your merry way, judging all the parents of children with special needs.

Lucky you.

Thank you for posting this. Solidarity.

OP, you're kid is really young and it's great you are asking these questions. Take the shame right out of it. You are responding to the kid in front of you. If you've been too accommodating, you can start to shift that. She's only 4! Good job asking the question now and not when she's 10!

But this is not your fault. I would ask teachers and other adults she works with to get more of an idea of where she fits in among her peers.

Anonymous wrote:We're on a weekend camping trip with DH's family (grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins) and my 4-year-old is not handling it well. At all. Like, tantrum about not being able to wear a specific pair of underwear we left at home-level not handling it. I am seriously the one with that kid who is screaming in a campground because her bathing suit got a little wet. The bouncy-house slide has a sprinkler, which is scary, but the playground is hot, because it's summertime. She won't wear shoes because it's fun to go barefoot except the rocks hurt her feet OH MY GOD DO NOT TRY TO PUT SHOES ON ME. Meanwhile her cousins are playing on the bouncy slide and playground and having fun like normal kids on a fun camping trip.

Have I just indulged her and catered to her needs too much? She's always been very strong-willed and super-sensitive to changes in her schedule/routine and so we've always been strict with mealtimes, nap/bedtimes, etc so we don't get into meltdown territory, even (especially!) while traveling. On this trip we're totally off her normal schedule, but I feel like at 4 she should be able to handle a little more flexibility. She's also always been incredible specific about her clothing so we've let her pick her own clothes for the last year or so and she's so inflexible about it that she can't handle any suggestions about what she wears, or if it's weather-appropriate, or what the best shoes would be or whatever. If she picks out an outfit for the day she will NOT change it, ever, for any reason. But she also can't stand it when her clothes get wet or dirty and so at home we just run them through the dryer so she can put them back on (but of course we don't have a dryer while camping). Anyways, this trip is just highlighting how incapable of being flexible this kid is and I'm wondering if our efforts to let her make her so many of her own choices have backfired. Maybe we just need to lay some more boundaries down about clothing?? Disrupt her routine more often so she can go with the flow more often?? 4 is so tough! She was difficult at 2 and 3 but these screaming tantrums have been a fun new addition at 4.

My 4- year old is exactly like this and she is high-functioning autistic.

sounds like you have a rigid kid-- perhaps anxiety, or adhd, or asd, or just no limited practice having to be flexible, who knows-- and that rigidity probably elicited a different parenting response. it's not your fault. That said you can definitely teach and help reinforce flexibility- and practice small moments of it, and even make a game of it- let's go run through our clothes in the sprinkler(model it and do it too) and keep them on after, let's practice a fashion show where we change out outfits, let's try a new restaurant, new food, etc...

i'm a child psychologist and treat lots of rigid kids- i like to gamify it as much as possible.

agree with recommendation re space/lebowitz book, but this also is a good book (ignore the title, helpful even if your kid is not on the spectrum)https://www.amazon.com/Solving-Executive-Function-Challenges-Unstuck/dp/1598576038/ref=pd_lpo_sccl_2/131-9512920-4284607?pd_rd_w=exM48&content-id=amzn1.sym.116f529c-aa4d-4763-b2b6-4d614ec7dc00&pf_rd_p=116f529c-aa4d-4763-b2b6-4d614ec7dc00&pf_rd_r=9AN6YFNFXQ5F6HWWYV9M&pd_rd_wg=W0KQQ&pd_rd_r=161df4dd-2688-4428-b815-ea73f9e8b548&pd_rd_i=1598576038&psc=1

Anonymous wrote:Yes I think you have been to indulgent. Sometimes you have to let the tantrum happen. Do not give in and do not indulge it. Yes it sucks but they need to learn boundaries and how to control their emotions. I have a stubborn kid but unfortunately for her she got stubborn parents. You should also know that it sometimes sucks traveling with young kids. They get tired and cranky and even flexible kids have a limit to how much they can handle. But you should not be drying your kids clothes in the middle of the day or allowing them to not be dressed appropriately for the weather or conditions. Are you still planning to be tiptoeing around your daughter when she's 10? 15? 20? If the answer is no, then stop it now.

I agree with this and I think if you are asking if you are indulgent it’s because you know you are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is very clearly anxiety, but at such a high level, and demonstrated for so long (prior to the trip) that I would request an evaluation from a developmental pediatrician, OP.

Inflexibility and anxiety are red flags for autism. Please don't be scared by that diagnosis! I have lots of high-functioning autistic people in my family, and around me. The adults are successful individuals with families, and the kids I know, including my own, are good students with perfectly fine career potential.

But it takes a lot more parenting to get them to that point, and that's why you need professional help and services. Bear in mind that you will probably face a diagnosis of anxiety, first, since that it the most obvious symptom. High-functioning autism can take years to diagnose.

Good luck. THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT.

Terrible take. She’s an indulged only child. At home they cater everything to her needs and whims but on this trip she didn’t get that and she didn’t like it.

PP you replied to. The indulged child scenario would really be the best case one, people. I did not address it because PPs had already done so. I am addressing the other possibility - the one where parents are FORCED to indulge an inflexible child's demands because otherwise the child will sabotage all outings, and all activities, due to their particular mental make-up. That profile is an autistic one. Parents in that scenario are unfairly blamed by people like you, and on top of struggling to find help, they are also shamed by their community. It can lead to a delay in diagnosis, since people around them distract them with another option, and it lead to child abuse, when the frantic parent, desperate to "control their child", as their relatives or friends or teachers demand, start implementing extreme measures to ensure compliance. And it alienates autistic children even further in the process.

I wish I didn't know all this, PP. You're lucky, and other posters are lucky, that you can just gaily zero in on "oh, you're just a lax parent, get your act together!". Because some parents try that for years and then realize their child has autism. And all the while you're on your merry way, judging all the parents of children with special needs.

Lucky you.

Well said.
My 4- year old DD with ASD is exactly like this, and we are likely trending towards an ADHD diagnosis too.

Anonymous wrote:Tbh this sounds like my kid growing up — sensitive to certain things, having a tough time with things other kids are just doing, etc, and she was later diagnosed with (mild) autism. I would consider testing, it would have helped us find effective solutions for her anxiety to know earlier rather that when she was 12.

I will say this popped into my mind too since it can be harder to notice a milder case in girls. The rigidity, specifications with clothing, etc CAN be symptoms but also could be plenty of other things op. Probably just worth having on your radar.