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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all. To clarify, I’m looking at options for students with high stats and an in-state budget who still may get rejected from W&M/UVA, but the student is not that excited about Tech/JMU as alternative schools. I understand to get merit they won’t be as highly ranked at WM/UVA. Where else should we look? Thanks to those who already answered.

OP here. Should add that we want DC to be within a 6-8 hour drive. Don’t want to deal with airfare and such. So probably places like Grinnell are out, although I’m sure it’s lovely.

Do they find UVA more appealing or W&M? That preference would tend to lead to different target/safety schools.

Within your distance limit, I know kids who wanted UVA who are now at U of SC, U Mass, Rochester although more ended up at JMU, VT, or VCU (the pre-meds at VCU)
Those who liked W&M are at schools like Dickinson, Mount Holyoke, SMCM.

Right now they think W&M but DH and I went there so they are probably biased although we’ve really tried to remain neutral (and we truly don’t care!) Our main fear is they get shut out of both. Not that excited about either Tech or JMU.

I get it. I have one kid at VT who really didn't like W&M while my other liked W&M but not UVA or VT. She applied to a range of LACs. I still insisted on an in-state safety so she applied to UMW, which is the closest in Virginia in size/style to W&M. I'd recommend you start visiting some LACs that have potential to come in similar to or less than the cost of W&M (generally rank in the 50-80 range on the USNWR list). Also, Jesuit schools tend to be similar in size to W&M so some of the less-selective ones might be good options too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all. To clarify, I’m looking at options for students with high stats and an in-state budget who still may get rejected from W&M/UVA, but the student is not that excited about Tech/JMU as alternative schools. I understand to get merit they won’t be as highly ranked at WM/UVA. Where else should we look? Thanks to those who already answered.

OP here. Should add that we want DC to be within a 6-8 hour drive. Don’t want to deal with airfare and such. So probably places like Grinnell are out, although I’m sure it’s lovely.

Do they find UVA more appealing or W&M? That preference would tend to lead to different target/safety schools.

Within your distance limit, I know kids who wanted UVA who are now at U of SC, U Mass, Rochester although more ended up at JMU, VT, or VCU (the pre-meds at VCU)
Those who liked W&M are at schools like Dickinson, Mount Holyoke, SMCM.

Right now they think W&M but DH and I went there so they are probably biased although we’ve really tried to remain neutral (and we truly don’t care!) Our main fear is they get shut out of both. Not that excited about either Tech or JMU.

Just a note - total cost of attendance has been rising rapidly at private schools, and most are shifting merit $ to need-based grants.

That means schools that would come down after merit to $40K five years ago now come down to $55-60K.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all. To clarify, I’m looking at options for students with high stats and an in-state budget who still may get rejected from W&M/UVA, but the student is not that excited about Tech/JMU as alternative schools. I understand to get merit they won’t be as highly ranked at WM/UVA. Where else should we look? Thanks to those who already answered.

OP here. Should add that we want DC to be within a 6-8 hour drive. Don’t want to deal with airfare and such. So probably places like Grinnell are out, although I’m sure it’s lovely.

Do they find UVA more appealing or W&M? That preference would tend to lead to different target/safety schools.

Within your distance limit, I know kids who wanted UVA who are now at U of SC, U Mass, Rochester although more ended up at JMU, VT, or VCU (the pre-meds at VCU)
Those who liked W&M are at schools like Dickinson, Mount Holyoke, SMCM.

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS thought U Del and Miami U both felt similar in style to UVA while being a lot less selective. DS got merit from both to bring the cost down to be in range,, $35-40k

My DD who preferred W&M mainly also applied to LACs (in the 50-80 rank range) + UMW, which is the most similar school in VA to W&M. With merit UMW would only have cost us $17k. The LACs generally came in around $30k with a couple higher ranked ones only getting the price down to $50k.

Your DS’s experience is irrelevant because the schools involved don’t have nearly as good a reputation as UVA or W&M regardless of their “vibe.” If he turned either down to attend U Del or Miami he’d be nuts.

Of course they don't. But OP wants "similar" schools that will provide merit to match UVAs price. To get that you obviously have to go down in reputation tier. Same tier schools don't give merit. FWIW, DS was never going to be admitted to UVA (not most rigorous classes at his HS). He's now at Virginia Tech.

So, you have confirmed as I suspected: your son was not in the running for UVA or William and Mary. The OP’s question was, what if your kid IS in the running?

The only way you get "merit" from a highly ranked school is a small number of highly competitive scholarships. Which go to students for whom UVA/W&M is a safety because the school wants them to go there vs an Ivy.

If you are looking for schools that offer merit that can match the price of UVA/W&M it is because you are, reasonably, trying to build a good list with options because UVA/W&M are not a sure thing. Which they are not if you are just "in the running" vs thinking they are safeties.

So what are your brilliant suggestions?

You are very snarky, which is quite ugly.

OP never said, "highly ranked."

Try reading carefully and being helpful for a change.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all. To clarify, I’m looking at options for students with high stats and an in-state budget who still may get rejected from W&M/UVA, but the student is not that excited about Tech/JMU as alternative schools. I understand to get merit they won’t be as highly ranked at WM/UVA. Where else should we look? Thanks to those who already answered.

OP here. Should add that we want DC to be within a 6-8 hour drive. Don’t want to deal with airfare and such. So probably places like Grinnell are out, although I’m sure it’s lovely.

OP here. Thanks all. To clarify, I’m looking at options for students with high stats and an in-state budget who still may get rejected from W&M/UVA, but the student is not that excited about Tech/JMU as alternative schools. I understand to get merit they won’t be as highly ranked at WM/UVA. Where else should we look? Thanks to those who already answered.

When you want the highest ranked school possible (with little weight to size or other culture aspects of fit), your budget is state-school price, and you are an "average excellent" student (not a super star who might be competitive for top scholarships a highly selective schools), the approach should be...

1. ED to UVA
2. ED2 to W&M (since UVA doesn't have ED2)

And, EA to either...
(if really prefer UVA to W&M) OOS flagships that give merit, e.g. U of South Carolina, U Mass Amherst, Alabama, Delaware, Arizona, etc.
OR
(if really prefer W&M) EA/RD to LACs that give merit. As mentioned up-thread Grinnell is probably the highest ranked LAC that consistently gives merit. Other than that look to the USNews 50 and lower.

Plus, as budget safeties, apply to a few other VA publics (but understand JMU and VT have been unpredictable lately so don't say VT is your safety).

Anonymous wrote:My current UVA students applied to and received significant merit at College of Wooster and St Lawrence U. Those were their safeties and both offered enough to bring the cost down to about what we pay for UVA. Obviously a step or two down in rank and prestige, but that's the point, they want the higher stats students so they offer more aid.

If we are talking merit on step down colleges for kid that got into UVA & W&M:
Fordham
Syracuse
Miami U Ohio
VCU (plus honors college)

However those are quite different in size and feel from UVA/W&M

My current UVA students applied to and received significant merit at College of Wooster and St Lawrence U. Those were their safeties and both offered enough to bring the cost down to about what we pay for UVA. Obviously a step or two down in rank and prestige, but that's the point, they want the higher stats students so they offer more aid.

PP here.

I get it, it is overwhelming and feels like information overload, with no idea where to begin.

As a parent who never went to college it felt exhausting and confusing often. I started to do some research already during the summer of my rising Jr. in order to be able to answer some questions and help my kid by asking them questions to better guide them. My kid was utterly clueless too at the start.

It was only when the process was well underway that they actually started to formulize their likes/dislikes better. It was also after a lot, I mean a lot of research and online sessions.

Just spend the $50 go to USNews and play around with the Tuition$ and Enrollment buttons. That will give you a list of colleges fitting your input as a point to start from.

Nobody here can tell you where your kid might get merit. Just know, the higher ranked the more any scholarships get. Look at the CDS (common data set) of the schools to see where your kid fits in, in addition to how they fare in its HS.

Is this a lot of leg work? You bet, but any of this will tell you more than anecdotes from a message board.

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Anonymous wrote:My DS thought U Del and Miami U both felt similar in style to UVA while being a lot less selective. DS got merit from both to bring the cost down to be in range,, $35-40k

My DD who preferred W&M mainly also applied to LACs (in the 50-80 rank range) + UMW, which is the most similar school in VA to W&M. With merit UMW would only have cost us $17k. The LACs generally came in around $30k with a couple higher ranked ones only getting the price down to $50k.

Your DS’s experience is irrelevant because the schools involved don’t have nearly as good a reputation as UVA or W&M regardless of their “vibe.” If he turned either down to attend U Del or Miami he’d be nuts.

Of course they don't. But OP wants "similar" schools that will provide merit to match UVAs price. To get that you obviously have to go down in reputation tier. Same tier schools don't give merit. FWIW, DS was never going to be admitted to UVA (not most rigorous classes at his HS). He's now at Virginia Tech.

So, you have confirmed as I suspected: your son was not in the running for UVA or William and Mary. The OP’s question was, what if your kid IS in the running?

Different PP here - I think OP is saying even tho their kid is in the running for the two mentioned, are there good alternatives that would provide good merit. Didn’t say alternatives have to be on a par. Often a very good school will offer great merit to attract a kid like that - but often, that school is less selective than the top 50-100. For many people, that is a great alternative - to still receive a quality education at a terrific place, at a great price. To each his own. OP, come back and let us know how it went, it would honestly be great info to hear. Good luck!

Also, in the running doesn't mean they will get in, and they may be priced out of similar level options. A kid competitive for UVA and W&M who ultimately doesn't get in and can only afford in state tuition probably can't attend a comparable school.

I don’t even know what a comparable school would be to William and Mary because it’s such an odd duck in terms of size and state school status. All I can think of is sort of Wake Forest, but that’s a private school.

If one looks at private and public alike, focusing on the student body size, the following come to mind. The settings might be very different though:

WUSTL
Carnegie Mellon
Wake Forrest
Tufts
URochester
Tulane
CWRU
Lehigh
Villanova
Rensselaer
Worcester Polytech
Gonzaga
Elon

As others have pointed out. The higher the more competitive the scholarships.

The the budget is W&M in state, then you haven't listed any schools

This list seems just look at size only which is maybe a secondary concern for OP, as finances will be more important?
Finances will always bring up a quite different list then other aspects.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS thought U Del and Miami U both felt similar in style to UVA while being a lot less selective. DS got merit from both to bring the cost down to be in range,, $35-40k

My DD who preferred W&M mainly also applied to LACs (in the 50-80 rank range) + UMW, which is the most similar school in VA to W&M. With merit UMW would only have cost us $17k. The LACs generally came in around $30k with a couple higher ranked ones only getting the price down to $50k.

Your DS’s experience is irrelevant because the schools involved don’t have nearly as good a reputation as UVA or W&M regardless of their “vibe.” If he turned either down to attend U Del or Miami he’d be nuts.

Of course they don't. But OP wants "similar" schools that will provide merit to match UVAs price. To get that you obviously have to go down in reputation tier. Same tier schools don't give merit. FWIW, DS was never going to be admitted to UVA (not most rigorous classes at his HS). He's now at Virginia Tech.

So, you have confirmed as I suspected: your son was not in the running for UVA or William and Mary. The OP’s question was, what if your kid IS in the running?

Different PP here - I think OP is saying even tho their kid is in the running for the two mentioned, are there good alternatives that would provide good merit. Didn’t say alternatives have to be on a par. Often a very good school will offer great merit to attract a kid like that - but often, that school is less selective than the top 50-100. For many people, that is a great alternative - to still receive a quality education at a terrific place, at a great price. To each his own. OP, come back and let us know how it went, it would honestly be great info to hear. Good luck!

Also, in the running doesn't mean they will get in, and they may be priced out of similar level options. A kid competitive for UVA and W&M who ultimately doesn't get in and can only afford in state tuition probably can't attend a comparable school.

I don’t even know what a comparable school would be to William and Mary because it’s such an odd duck in terms of size and state school status. All I can think of is sort of Wake Forest, but that’s a private school.

If one looks at private and public alike, focusing on the student body size, the following come to mind. The settings might be very different though:

WUSTL
Carnegie Mellon
Wake Forrest
Tufts
URochester
Tulane
CWRU
Lehigh
Villanova
Rensselaer
Worcester Polytech
Gonzaga
Elon

As others have pointed out. The higher the more competitive the scholarships.

The the budget is W&M in state, then you haven't listed any schools

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS thought U Del and Miami U both felt similar in style to UVA while being a lot less selective. DS got merit from both to bring the cost down to be in range,, $35-40k

My DD who preferred W&M mainly also applied to LACs (in the 50-80 rank range) + UMW, which is the most similar school in VA to W&M. With merit UMW would only have cost us $17k. The LACs generally came in around $30k with a couple higher ranked ones only getting the price down to $50k.

Your DS’s experience is irrelevant because the schools involved don’t have nearly as good a reputation as UVA or W&M regardless of their “vibe.” If he turned either down to attend U Del or Miami he’d be nuts.

Of course they don't. But OP wants "similar" schools that will provide merit to match UVAs price. To get that you obviously have to go down in reputation tier. Same tier schools don't give merit. FWIW, DS was never going to be admitted to UVA (not most rigorous classes at his HS). He's now at Virginia Tech.

So, you have confirmed as I suspected: your son was not in the running for UVA or William and Mary. The OP’s question was, what if your kid IS in the running?

Different PP here - I think OP is saying even tho their kid is in the running for the two mentioned, are there good alternatives that would provide good merit. Didn’t say alternatives have to be on a par. Often a very good school will offer great merit to attract a kid like that - but often, that school is less selective than the top 50-100. For many people, that is a great alternative - to still receive a quality education at a terrific place, at a great price. To each his own. OP, come back and let us know how it went, it would honestly be great info to hear. Good luck!

Also, in the running doesn't mean they will get in, and they may be priced out of similar level options. A kid competitive for UVA and W&M who ultimately doesn't get in and can only afford in state tuition probably can't attend a comparable school.

I don’t even know what a comparable school would be to William and Mary because it’s such an odd duck in terms of size and state school status. All I can think of is sort of Wake Forest, but that’s a private school.

If one looks at private and public alike, focusing on the student body size, the following come to mind. The settings might be very different though:

WUSTL
Carnegie Mellon
Wake Forrest
Tufts
URochester
Tulane
CWRU
Lehigh
Villanova
Rensselaer
Worcester Polytech
Gonzaga
Elon

As others have pointed out. The higher the more competitive the scholarships.

I don’t get this list.