Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The shirts probably say “girls rule” or “girl power” or “run like a girl”, etc. Your boys are likely being overly sensitive. I doubt a girl has a shirt that says “girls are better than boys”.

op - i think you're probably right that it's some version of 'girls rule'.
but my 7 year old is definitely getting this msg and he is not generally oversensitive at all (if anything the opposite!). So I do need some language to frame it around.

Ds would point out those things at that age and eventually learned the word "sexist" and called everything that would limit one sex, sexist. I get annoyed that he pays it any mind because I am all for others tooting their own horn. I don't get why he sees it as an attack. I usually tell him his concerns are baseless or I'm dismissive since it seems silly to care about. Maybe I should talk it out with him more but with age, he is moving on to pointing out many gender norms as sexist if it leaves the other sex ostracized for doing the same things. To me these social issue discussions are exhausting and I feel "over it" at my age but it is obviously good for them, in the grand scheme, to talk this out.

It’s a good age for them to wrestle with cognitive dissonance and learn how not to internalize messages like this.

There are grown-ass adults who never did that and now are all out stamping their feet in school board meetings because they imagine CRT is being taught and they are tired of all this race talk all of a sudden. I mean, hell, some of them even sit on the highest court in the land.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 2 sons (7 and 10) have been asking me about this a lot. At school and camp a lot of girls have shirts that say various versions of like 'girls are better than boys' (i'm not sure exact wording bc the kids are telling me this second hand, but am vaguely aware through culture ofc). My kids ask 'why would they say this?' Thus far my tactic has been to explain that as yet we have had NO female president in US (I am from the UK so can talk about how we have had female leaders at home) and talk about what kind of message that sends to girls. But my kids are not dumb and their answer is - yes 100% we need a female president but that messaging is still like - girls are BETTER than boys. Any tips on how to talk about this to them? I am failing.

It sounds like your boys are internalizing female empowerment messages. No shirts say things like “girls are better.” They do have positive messages or are sardonic rejections of old stereotypes (a popular shirt in the softball world is something like “you wish you could throw like a girl.”

So maybe tell your sons to stop internalizing things so much — it isn’t about them. Girls have historically been denied opportunities and suffered from lower expectations for roles in society. And so we rightfully encourage them to achieve. Boys don’t really need that same encouragement because they have not been bombarded with messaging throughout history like a boy’s place is in the kitchen, a boy shouldn’t get a formal education, etc etc.

Yes of course they do. Boys live today, not 50 years ago.

*reasoning

Anonymous wrote:My 2 sons (7 and 10) have been asking me about this a lot. At school and camp a lot of girls have shirts that say various versions of like 'girls are better than boys' (i'm not sure exact wording bc the kids are telling me this second hand, but am vaguely aware through culture ofc). My kids ask 'why would they say this?' Thus far my tactic has been to explain that as yet we have had NO female president in US (I am from the UK so can talk about how we have had female leaders at home) and talk about what kind of message that sends to girls. But my kids are not dumb and their answer is - yes 100% we need a female president but that messaging is still like - girls are BETTER than boys. Any tips on how to talk about this to them? I am failing.

It sounds like your boys are internalizing female empowerment messages. No shirts say things like “girls are better.” They do have positive messages or are sardonic rejections of old stereotypes (a popular shirt in the softball world is something like “you wish you could throw like a girl.”

So maybe tell your sons to stop internalizing things so much — it isn’t about them. Girls have historically been denied opportunities and suffered from lower expectations for roles in society. And so we rightfully encourage them to achieve. Boys don’t really need that same encouragement because they have not been bombarded with messaging throughout history like a boy’s place is in the kitchen, a boy shouldn’t get a formal education, etc etc.

You could say boys on average are better at sports, physics and spacious, and girls are better at not violently raping, murdering or assaulting women and children. Oops no that might be sexist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think your example about presidents is great; maybe add the 80 cents on the dollar salary figure. I'd tell your boys that these shirts are fighting against negative messaging that girls constantly get. They are not saying boys are bad, they are emphasizing that girls are strong and worthwhile which unfortunately not everybody believes yet. And because our society tends to elevate boys over girls, an equivalent shirt saying "boy power" would be inappropriate.

Op - ok yes this is helpful!
I guess on some level I’ve been reluctant to say ‘society elevates boys over girls’ bc I don’t even want to put the idea in their head. But obv I guess I have to acknowledge out loud at some point.

Op similar to how you need to actively teach your kids about racism, you need to actively teach them about sexism. It isnt putting the idea in their head - if you don’t, someone else/society will in a way that is likely much more fraught. If you don’t teach your kids especially boys that sexism exists and some of that important history when they witness people treating boys differently then girls, or more men as lawyers, more men in congress etc, they will come up with their own reasons for why that is. Usually that will be well there must be something inherent or, maybe they worked harder! Kids are trying to understand. Don’t be afraid to tell them, you want to be the one explaining.

Same with racism. Your kids need to know from you that it exists, why, why it is wrong, and how it impacts people with darker skin. So when they notice that more homeless people they see our black they don’t come up with their own explanation for that (which they will, if not given one).

Kids can understand this. My 5 year old has a basic understanding that women and people of color (and others) have been treated cruelly and unfairly through much of our history and that means they sometimes weren’t able to have the same jobs, or buy a house etc. Then we’ll keep building on that basic foundation as he gets older.

When they witness boys getting in trouble at school and girls getting the good grades and all the leadership positions, they will draw conclusions from that no matter what mom tells them.

You sound so out of touch and you're not helping your child.

Are*

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think your example about presidents is great; maybe add the 80 cents on the dollar salary figure. I'd tell your boys that these shirts are fighting against negative messaging that girls constantly get. They are not saying boys are bad, they are emphasizing that girls are strong and worthwhile which unfortunately not everybody believes yet. And because our society tends to elevate boys over girls, an equivalent shirt saying "boy power" would be inappropriate.

Op - ok yes this is helpful!
I guess on some level I’ve been reluctant to say ‘society elevates boys over girls’ bc I don’t even want to put the idea in their head. But obv I guess I have to acknowledge out loud at some point.

Op similar to how you need to actively teach your kids about racism, you need to actively teach them about sexism. It isnt putting the idea in their head - if you don’t, someone else/society will in a way that is likely much more fraught. If you don’t teach your kids especially boys that sexism exists and some of that important history when they witness people treating boys differently then girls, or more men as lawyers, more men in congress etc, they will come up with their own reasons for why that is. Usually that will be well there must be something inherent or, maybe they worked harder! Kids are trying to understand. Don’t be afraid to tell them, you want to be the one explaining.

Same with racism. Your kids need to know from you that it exists, why, why it is wrong, and how it impacts people with darker skin. So when they notice that more homeless people they see our black they don’t come up with their own explanation for that (which they will, if not given one).

Kids can understand this. My 5 year old has a basic understanding that women and people of color (and others) have been treated cruelly and unfairly through much of our history and that means they sometimes weren’t able to have the same jobs, or buy a house etc. Then we’ll keep building on that basic foundation as he gets older.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think your example about presidents is great; maybe add the 80 cents on the dollar salary figure. I'd tell your boys that these shirts are fighting against negative messaging that girls constantly get. They are not saying boys are bad, they are emphasizing that girls are strong and worthwhile which unfortunately not everybody believes yet. And because our society tends to elevate boys over girls, an equivalent shirt saying "boy power" would be inappropriate.

Op - ok yes this is helpful!
I guess on some level I’ve been reluctant to say ‘society elevates boys over girls’ bc I don’t even want to put the idea in their head. But obv I guess I have to acknowledge out loud at some point.

My DS would absolutely reject the assertion that “society elevated girls.” He would need more specific facts. Because that’s not what boys see/experience these days.

Nobody in a majority group thinks they are benefiting from it. That's why it's a parent's job to talk about this, with specific facts.

And talk about how these stereotypes hurt boys too. Eg, would they get teased if they wore a girl power shirt? Why? If they wore pink? Cried? Is that right or fair? Is it OK for boys to hit each other but not girls: if so, why is it OK to hit anybody / why should boys tolerate getting hit?

We are grown ups so we all y sweat and that but it’s not as easy as you think to convey that to a 6 year old when the shirts say “girls rule, boys drool” rather than “girl power.” I completely understand the shirts, am a feminist, and can still understand op’s question! It’s a big job to address these issues with little kids (but I will say it gets much easier as they get to be teens.)

Anonymous wrote:ugh I hate those shirts. they are seriously going to turn a generation of boys into Andrew Tates. I’m exaggerating obviously, but boys reasonably wonder why it’s ok and what it means. Especially by upper elementary when it becomes pretty obvious that girls function on the whole better than boys in school.

I tell my son: “girls rule just means girls are equal to boys, not better. it’s meant to correct past inequality. and even though you can’t see it, there is still sexism. it doesn’t mean you are bad or boys are bad.”

He generally gets it, although at 10 he is now VERY cynical about any official messaging or advertising about identity groups. He thinks it’s all exploitation to make money.

Absolutely in shambles over your characterization of your 10 year old son’s identity politics and economic theses lmfao

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think your example about presidents is great; maybe add the 80 cents on the dollar salary figure. I'd tell your boys that these shirts are fighting against negative messaging that girls constantly get. They are not saying boys are bad, they are emphasizing that girls are strong and worthwhile which unfortunately not everybody believes yet. And because our society tends to elevate boys over girls, an equivalent shirt saying "boy power" would be inappropriate.

Op - ok yes this is helpful!
I guess on some level I’ve been reluctant to say ‘society elevates boys over girls’ bc I don’t even want to put the idea in their head. But obv I guess I have to acknowledge out loud at some point.

My DS would absolutely reject the assertion that “society elevated girls.” He would need more specific facts. Because that’s not what boys see/experience these days.

Nobody in a majority group thinks they are benefiting from it. That's why it's a parent's job to talk about this, with specific facts.

And talk about how these stereotypes hurt boys too. Eg, would they get teased if they wore a girl power shirt? Why? If they wore pink? Cried? Is that right or fair? Is it OK for boys to hit each other but not girls: if so, why is it OK to hit anybody / why should boys tolerate getting hit?

Oops, submitted when trying to fix that typo ^^

You don't want to introduce the idea to the boys, but they will experience it eventually. Better to do it now and explain it properly than let the internet do it for you later.

Op, I get it. My DS asked me the same thing. I don't think the boys feel *hurt* by it, so all the people insulting OP and her kids can take a hike. But to the kids who were raised that boys and girls are equal, it seems strange to then see lots of "Girl Power" and "Girls Rock" merchandise.

I think the PPs who say to address it historically and intellectually have the right idea. Yes, on one hand you don't want to indtroduce this idea to the boys

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think your example about presidents is great; maybe add the 80 cents on the dollar salary figure. I'd tell your boys that these shirts are fighting against negative messaging that girls constantly get. They are not saying boys are bad, they are emphasizing that girls are strong and worthwhile which unfortunately not everybody believes yet. And because our society tends to elevate boys over girls, an equivalent shirt saying "boy power" would be inappropriate.

Op - ok yes this is helpful!
I guess on some level I’ve been reluctant to say ‘society elevates boys over girls’ bc I don’t even want to put the idea in their head. But obv I guess I have to acknowledge out loud at some point.

My DS would absolutely reject the assertion that “society elevated girls.” He would need more specific facts. Because that’s not what boys see/experience these days.

ugh I hate those shirts. they are seriously going to turn a generation of boys into Andrew Tates. I’m exaggerating obviously, but boys reasonably wonder why it’s ok and what it means. Especially by upper elementary when it becomes pretty obvious that girls function on the whole better than boys in school.

I tell my son: “girls rule just means girls are equal to boys, not better. it’s meant to correct past inequality. and even though you can’t see it, there is still sexism. it doesn’t mean you are bad or boys are bad.”

He generally gets it, although at 10 he is now VERY cynical about any official messaging or advertising about identity groups. He thinks it’s all exploitation to make money.