Anonymous wrote:Lol. Bad decision making isn’t genetic. JFC.

Of course it is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Most men don’t have that option so they date who they can. The idea of romantic relationships and traditional roles in a relationship are no longer the norm or desire for women. So why should men stick to traditional roles (provider, breadwinner, protector, handyman) whey overall western society has told them they don’t want it?

Studies show by 2030 54% of women over 38 will be single and childless. Thing is…most women want to have kids. But the system is stacked against men in terms of the traditional marriage contract. Guys realize it’s a losing bet for them and opt out. 65% if single men under the age of 35 aren’t even looking for relationships let alone in one. So they’ve decided to just stay home instead of playing a game that intentionally has no path to victory

you are clearly a very rational and well-adjusted person and i cannot imagine why you’re having trouble dating

You seriously don't get it do you?
We don't want the minuscule, little bit of value (vs. risk) you have to offer.
We find it laughable that you even would overestimate yourself that way.

Who the hell is “we”? Wealthy, educated millennial men are marrying (it’s lower income people who aren’t marrying). And then they aren’t divorcing (millennials are far less likely to divorce than boomers at the same stages of life/years of marriage). Marriage is working out great for high income young men.

You’re relying on data (and anecdotes) about low income men. Sorry, biglaw associates are not going to be ruined by divorce and end up eating ramen. Nice try.

Lol. Bad decision making isn’t genetic. JFC.

Anonymous wrote:Most rich men want the social standing that a high quality wife brings. This feels like a question only a man from a lower class/lower middle class background would ask.

+1
Also, the quality of the genes of the mother. Do you want you kids to inherent bad decision making from their parents?

I suppose if a man chose this and a woman went along this would be a double whammy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Most men don’t have that option so they date who they can. The idea of romantic relationships and traditional roles in a relationship are no longer the norm or desire for women. So why should men stick to traditional roles (provider, breadwinner, protector, handyman) whey overall western society has told them they don’t want it?

Studies show by 2030 54% of women over 38 will be single and childless. Thing is…most women want to have kids. But the system is stacked against men in terms of the traditional marriage contract. Guys realize it’s a losing bet for them and opt out. 65% if single men under the age of 35 aren’t even looking for relationships let alone in one. So they’ve decided to just stay home instead of playing a game that intentionally has no path to victory

you are clearly a very rational and well-adjusted person and i cannot imagine why you’re having trouble dating

You seriously don't get it do you?
We don't want the minuscule, little bit of value (vs. risk) you have to offer.
We find it laughable that you even would overestimate yourself that way.

The divorce rate is quite low for couples who are both college-educated and married after age 25. Citing to risk of divorce based on the general population is not relevant to the typical DCUM couple.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The math just doesn’t seem to work. Why not just have kids with your girlfriend and never get married?

What quality woman would sign up for that?

In the US, 40% of all children born these days are born to unwed mothers:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/276025/us-percentage-of-births-to-unmarried-women/

And what is their socio-economic status? I’d venture to guess that it’s poor.

Studies show kids do best when the parents are married, kids in home with single fathers have similar statistics.

For example, studies have found that children that from single-mother households are 5 times more likely to commit suicide than children from both unbroken households and single-father households, 9 times more likely to drop out of high school, 10 times more likely to abuse chemical substances, 14 times more likely to commit rape, 20 times more likely to end up in prison and 32 times more likely to run away from home.
The list does not stop there, single-mother households also account for 70% of all teen pregnancies, 70% of all child murders, and they account for the majority of filicide cases, which means yes, a child living in a single-mother household is the most likely to be murdered by their parent.
Most at this point will probably think that the stepfather is the main killer and reason; however, studies have found this to be false and that stepparents are no more likely to kill children than their biological counterparts.

This means inevitably, that single mothers are on average the biggest killers of children, some studies even show that mothers are the biggest killers of children overall.

https://www.breakingthescience.org/SimplifiedDataFromDHHS.php

Studies show single-father households are on par with two-parent households.

As for those with coparenting situations - the less a father is in the life of a child the more likely they are to engage in riskier behaviors which include taking drugs and teen pregnancy. I’m a lot of cases custody is denied to the father. Fathers are granted custody only 18.3% of the time. Mothers are awarded child support nearly 2 times as often as fathers are. Fathers are awarded nearly 10% less, on average, in child support.

These are all risk factors to weigh if you’re a single man looking to get married. There is no reason as a man ti engage in a risky contract that has at least a 1 in 2 chance of failure with you losing not only your wealth but your family. Keep in mind the suicide rate for males is already 3-4 times higher than women and jumps to 9 times if you’re a divorced male. Given these risks it’s better for men ti not engage in marriage until the laws change

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely it is.

Whenever I hear people lost benefits on why people should get married I point to how they’re outweighed by the HUGE risk of divorce. All of those "benefits" are a moot point as once you're divorced you will end up paying CS and in some cases alimony.

In a lot of cases the government makes money off of your CS so it encourages them to hit you with the highest possible amount as possible.

Child support is cheaper than actually raising your kids so if you can get your ex to do it all on the state’s child support calculation you’re winning.

Top that off by the fact 80% of divorces are initiated by women (90% of college educated) there is too much risk. If you're a man who has built his empire and worked hard, it's put at risk as soon as you marry.

Well first men should marry before the “empire building” phase of life, but in any case, your divorce statistics don’t take into consideration the fact that risk of divorce is much much lower when both parties are college-educated and married after 25.

I've seen men lose their businesses, livelihoods and in some cases built a house for their wife, (who cheated on him) and he lost it. I have friends that have lived out of a box eating Ramen for years because of being taken to the cleaners. You're 3-4 times more likely to commit suicide as a man, it jumps up to 9 times if you're a divorced man. You lose access to you home, your kids and get your income stolen from you.

You’re not talking about rich men here, obviously.

There is no "traditional" women anymore. At the end of the day the state encourages them to divorce and these women are just using the tools put in front of them to take advantage of it. Only 11 or 12 states have 50/50 by default for custody. It should be 50

Divorce rates have gone down. And in the vast majority of cases men don’t have more custody because they either don’t ask for it or don’t take what they’re ordered.

At the end of the day - as a man - no one will help you, no one cares about you or will have any empathy for you. You have to look out for yourself and the best way to do that is to take minimal risks that will destroy your livelihood. Society has shown it has utter disdain for men; best thing you can do for yourselves is to not play a game where the odds are not in your favor. Not only are they stacked against you, you have people actively looking to make you lose everything. I've had friends where their ex-wives divorce lawyers put restraining orders and make false claims of abuse to just to ensure they win. And I say had, because at least one of them ended his life based on these allegations and think is ex-wife gives a shit the actions she pulled led to him unaliving himself? Nope, she gets his life insurance and will be banging a new guy in a month.

What about all the men who murder their wives for threatening to divorce them? Happens all the time. Far more often than your anecdote.

Oh boy, lots to unpack here and so much disinformation.

First, divorce rates are not actually decreasing, fewer people are getting married overall so it will show a decrease when the marriage rate itself is declining. Over the last 50 years, the marriage rate in the U.S. has dropped by nearly 60%. Divorces amongst people aged 50+ years are rising. This means you get people aren’t getting married, they merely break up. The best thing to do for a man now is to break up.

In fact, studies show that 70% of divorces are initiated by women. When accounting for just college-educated women, that figure jumps up to 90%. The main reason is that while women have a lot at risk after a divorce, such as less money and fewer assets, they tend to be happier. Many women feel a great degree of satisfaction after divorce. So as the numbers show, a huge decline in marriage will equal less divorces. The fact remains that older people who die value marriage- or at least considered it the norm - are getting divorced at higher rates. Top that off with most men aren’t even looking for relationships right now according to polls drives the numbers down

Men don’t marry before the “empire building phase” because traditionally women don’t want men who are struggling or building, they pick the ones who are already there. Statistics show out he dating market women only find 5-10 percent of men attractive. Even lesser when it comes to actually going on dates. Women typically choose men who have resources and can already take care of themselves and potentially them. Women don’t date men who earn less or have less education than them. Even if a blue collar man makes more money polls show women don’t want ti date then anyways. But with women graduating college at much higher rates than men now, they field of men to choose from is shrinking even more.

Your statement about 50/50 custody is plain false. In fact studies show fathers are more involved now than in the past. A study by a team of sociologists at Brigham Young and Ball State universities indicates that fathers today are more engaged with their kids than previous generations. Men want more time with kids, but are also in average working much more in terms of hours or in jobs that are dangerous and require them to be engaged fully in their job for safety reasons.


I would be considered pretty high standard of living and while not super rich, definitely doing very well. Most if my friends are too. Those experiences I mentioned were within a circle of friends who are either at a high level in government of business owners. They’re rich by normal standards


Then amount if Ken who actually murder their wives is ah outlier and not something that commonly happens statistically speaking in terms of the amount of men and women who are higher. In fact statistically lesbian couples are at higher rates of DV than heterosexual couples. It seems as a women, you’re more in danger of marrying another women than a man

Anonymous wrote:Divorce used to be illegal unless infidelity now it's too easy

This kind of rhetoric is more common these days and it’s worrying. Men see that women are divorcing in higher numbers and instead of wanting to understand why that is and see if they can make staying in a marriage more attractive to women, they decide that the better solution would to make it hard for women to leave. I think we will see a push to get rid of no-fault divorce. Yikes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The math just doesn’t seem to work. Why not just have kids with your girlfriend and never get married?

What quality woman would sign up for that?

In the US, 40% of all children born these days are born to unwed mothers:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/276025/us-percentage-of-births-to-unmarried-women/

And what is their socio-economic status? I’d venture to guess that it’s poor.

Divorce used to be illegal unless infidelity now it's too easy

Anonymous wrote:Top that off by the fact 80% of divorces are initiated by women (90% of college educated) there is too much risk. If you're a man who has built his empire and worked hard, it's put at risk as soon as you marry.

People need to understand that women do this to protect themselves. That it isn't they who often want the divorces, but they and their children have the most to lose whether staying married or divorcing. It's a means of protection. A few thousand to make sure you and your children are cared for is the better deal. People take this statistic to mean that they want out more or don't enjoy marriage as much but that is rarely the case.

It's like saying men initiate the first date the most so they want the relationship more as if women don't advertise themselves for it.

Often these divorces are legally “initiated” by women who have already been abandoned but whose husbands won’t do them the favor of handling the paperwork. That’s why they file. And you actually already know that but are lying to make a point.

Anonymous wrote:

Most men don’t have that option so they date who they can. The idea of romantic relationships and traditional roles in a relationship are no longer the norm or desire for women. So why should men stick to traditional roles (provider, breadwinner, protector, handyman) whey overall western society has told them they don’t want it?

Studies show by 2030 54% of women over 38 will be single and childless. Thing is…most women want to have kids. But the system is stacked against men in terms of the traditional marriage contract. Guys realize it’s a losing bet for them and opt out. 65% if single men under the age of 35 aren’t even looking for relationships let alone in one. So they’ve decided to just stay home instead of playing a game that intentionally has no path to victory

you are clearly a very rational and well-adjusted person and i cannot imagine why you’re having trouble dating

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds like you are all discussing a business deal and not an actual in-love relationship. If you aren’t deeply in love, don’t get married or have kids.

Love is a fleeting emotion and in reality marriage means nothing. When such a high rate if marriages (almost half) end in divorce and 70-90% are initiated by women it shows love is never enough.

For the most part only one of the two genders is loved unconditionally and not usually expected to suffer for the betterment of the collective. Traditionally it’s men who go to war, pick up the sewage, mine for oil and coal, expected to deal with dangerous criminals, pick up downed power lines, roofing, construction work, ranchers and farming…etc. all of these things are expected of men. When men don’t add value they’re discarded.

The idea of romantic love is purely transactional. Women love men who can provide. Even though they say they’re independent men are still expected to pay for dates and take initiative into asking and planning. Women just need to be available and get asked out and taken care of.

What a bunch of driveling nonsense. You are unmoored from reality.

Top that off by the fact 80% of divorces are initiated by women (90% of college educated) there is too much risk. If you're a man who has built his empire and worked hard, it's put at risk as soon as you marry.

People need to understand that women do this to protect themselves. That it isn't they who often want the divorces, but they and their children have the most to lose whether staying married or divorcing. It's a means of protection. A few thousand to make sure you and your children are cared for is the better deal. People take this statistic to mean that they want out more or don't enjoy marriage as much but that is rarely the case.

It's like saying men initiate the first date the most so they want the relationship more as if women don't advertise themselves for it.