Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone can do one of these jobs. It doesn’t take a lot of intelligence to understand financial markets and work on PowerPoints. I once was an intern. It’s kind of like how there are millions of kids who would do perfectly fine at Princeton.

The ones who don’t have what it takes won’t get offers after the summer.

Not true

How is this not true? Have you ever been an investment banking analyst? Half of your time is spent waiting for feedback on decks and working on excel models. It’s not very challenging work. I met many analysts who disliked the lifestyle but don’t recall meeting anyone who thought it was too intellectually challenging. It’s just not.

What majors do you think lead to intellectually challenging work on a routine basis to freshly minted college graduates? I am asking this question as a Ph.D. in engineering and a MBA finance graduate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s clear that your kid doesn’t understand how to get these jobs. It’s not as simple as applying. It’s also not as simple as “nepo baby.” Unfortunately, career services at even better privates are oftentimes almost useless and don’t help students plan their future and act accordingly.

+1 not speaking about bucknell, but at my DS’s school, certain frats basically control the “best” investment clubs, and kids work for each other’s dad’s firm in summers (so you can’t check linkedin and see family connects). My DS is pre med. We don’t have the connects for IB.

OP here. I find it awful how boys club the finance world continues to be in a country that is all about “equality” and the American dream anyone can achieve if they work hard. It’s a quite socialist mentality how these kdis are born into a certain class where they will be guaranteed admission to a decent school as long as parents have the money and can float through 4 years of undergrad by getting cheat sheets from frat brothers and inevitable summer internships every year. Both husband and I are from a different country and are not used to this whole frat, athlete dominated society of Wall Street who get these high paying jobs from their dad’s friends not from actually working hard. In Ireland where we’re from, you either have the smarts or you don’t to get into these universities and obtain these jobs. For example, a 3.0 kid at a rich kid school like bucknell would never be able to get into the most sought after Irish colleges like trinity and university college Dublin. The kids in the finance majors at the mentioned schools are there for their high Leaving Cert marks(Irish version of a levels).

You’re kid presumably wasn’t able to get into the best colleges either. Bucknell is for rich kids and it does a good job of educating them. IB is all about networking and connections. If you want a finance job based on knowledge and skill, be a quant (if your kid is capable)

+1 I can’t confirm the “old boys club” because I avoided finance like the plague but if you’re so convinced it’s really why are you pushing your kid into that field? There are any number of fields that don’t require any networking at all and pay well. I’m a computer scientist, and have never bothered to intentionally network beyond maintaining good relations with my colleagues. Well paid, and I’ve never had an issue getting jobs by cold applying, including internships in college.

+1 ppl say biglaw is bad bc it's elitist about school pedigree etc but that's more of a meritocracy than what OP is describing.

Agree, because you need certain grades in law school to get the interview and you need certain undergrad grades and LSAT to get into a top law school. Will they go "deeper in the class" for a kid with the right connections? Definitely, but you still need to meet certain standards.

Yup. I was connected up the wazoo but it didn’t help me get a big law job when I was in law school after the dot com crash because my gpa was too mediocre.

OP you are missing the point of how these jobs are hired and what traits make good bankers. I worked in banking on wall at for years and was involved in the analyst (summer and full-time) hiring process. Good resumes and GPAs were a dime a dozen. We tossed more 4.0a than we chose to move to the second round. For the most part anyone can do the actual analyst work. The training is rigorous enough that it can all be learned. What we couldn’t teach were social skills, drive, and stamina. Even the interns can end up on a project with tight deadlines and long, long hours. Do we want the whiney kid who can’t function on little sleep? Or do we want the athlete who in the interview talks about two a day practices and powering through something on little sleep? The teams on these projects are often little so even the intern analyst will have contact with senior people (think CEOs, CFOs, etc at clients where it has taken years to build relationships). You are seeing these kids as just connected frat brothers. In interviews they were generally the ones who were most comfortable and good in any type of situation. Why do you think we often did an interview over a meal? We wanted to see what these candidates would be like in any type of situation. I’d hire the 3.0 who was flexible in any situation over the rigid 4.0 who had spent all of her time studying anyway. On the surface I’m sure some of the groups looked like they had unfair hiring but current hires got input and of course they would vouch for the kid they knew from their lacrosse team if they knew he had the stamina and personality they wanted vs an unknown. Bonuses are dependent on the group revenue. Good junior hires also lighten the load for everyone in the group.

We did hire many first generation immigrants. Who we did not generally hire were the kids where we had not heard their names or anything other than seeing them on a stack of summer intern applications. You would be surprised how (appropriately) aggressive some of these kids were in applying. Personalized emails, letters and calls to everyone on the group they wanted to work in. Sample pitches tailored specifically to an MD in a group. Letters commenting on recent transactions with ideas of add-one to pursue. These kids generally would go to their career center and filter out all of the alums in their specific finance roll they wanted and then send specific emails. They’d look up what their majors were or fraternities or sports. Then send a tailored letter that i, too, am in xyz the same as you. I am going to be in nyc the week of x. Would you have time for an informational interview, etc. These are the kids who know how to pursue a goal and are hired.
I am not saying your child didn’t do all of this, but you sound bitter and don’t seem to have things to back it up. I’d look at how far your child got in the process. Did he make it to the first round of interviews? If not then he didn’t pursue applying hard enough. Did he get a bunch of first rounds and go no further? Ok then he needs to rethink how he interviews. Did he make it past the phone interviews and no offers after in person? Dissect it like that.

We did hire from European universities, although most applied to London over nyc. We had analysts from trinity, ucd, etc. The issue is a lot of them didn’t have the social skills that made them good front office candidates. Most weren’t given full time offers. One went on to be very successful, but he was the exception. Many went on to do more back office, accounting type rolls.

Sadly, anyone can do these jobs and it's not like your DS is any more qualified. I used to work at Goldman Sachs in London and I will say anyone who got a job due to obvious connections (China's number 2's DC got a job on the floor when I was there) nobody respects them and you really have to work extra hard to prove yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s clear that your kid doesn’t understand how to get these jobs. It’s not as simple as applying. It’s also not as simple as “nepo baby.” Unfortunately, career services at even better privates are oftentimes almost useless and don’t help students plan their future and act accordingly.

+1 not speaking about bucknell, but at my DS’s school, certain frats basically control the “best” investment clubs, and kids work for each other’s dad’s firm in summers (so you can’t check linkedin and see family connects). My DS is pre med. We don’t have the connects for IB.

OP here. I find it awful how boys club the finance world continues to be in a country that is all about “equality” and the American dream anyone can achieve if they work hard. It’s a quite socialist mentality how these kdis are born into a certain class where they will be guaranteed admission to a decent school as long as parents have the money and can float through 4 years of undergrad by getting cheat sheets from frat brothers and inevitable summer internships every year. Both husband and I are from a different country and are not used to this whole frat, athlete dominated society of Wall Street who get these high paying jobs from their dad’s friends not from actually working hard. In Ireland where we’re from, you either have the smarts or you don’t to get into these universities and obtain these jobs. For example, a 3.0 kid at a rich kid school like bucknell would never be able to get into the most sought after Irish colleges like trinity and university college Dublin. The kids in the finance majors at the mentioned schools are there for their high Leaving Cert marks(Irish version of a levels).

You’re kid presumably wasn’t able to get into the best colleges either. Bucknell is for rich kids and it does a good job of educating them. IB is all about networking and connections. If you want a finance job based on knowledge and skill, be a quant (if your kid is capable)

+1 I can’t confirm the “old boys club” because I avoided finance like the plague but if you’re so convinced it’s really why are you pushing your kid into that field? There are any number of fields that don’t require any networking at all and pay well. I’m a computer scientist, and have never bothered to intentionally network beyond maintaining good relations with my colleagues. Well paid, and I’ve never had an issue getting jobs by cold applying, including internships in college.

+1 ppl say biglaw is bad bc it's elitist about school pedigree etc but that's more of a meritocracy than what OP is describing.

Agree, because you need certain grades in law school to get the interview and you need certain undergrad grades and LSAT to get into a top law school. Will they go "deeper in the class" for a kid with the right connections? Definitely, but you still need to meet certain standards.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s clear that your kid doesn’t understand how to get these jobs. It’s not as simple as applying. It’s also not as simple as “nepo baby.” Unfortunately, career services at even better privates are oftentimes almost useless and don’t help students plan their future and act accordingly.

+1 not speaking about bucknell, but at my DS’s school, certain frats basically control the “best” investment clubs, and kids work for each other’s dad’s firm in summers (so you can’t check linkedin and see family connects). My DS is pre med. We don’t have the connects for IB.

OP here. I find it awful how boys club the finance world continues to be in a country that is all about “equality” and the American dream anyone can achieve if they work hard. It’s a quite socialist mentality how these kdis are born into a certain class where they will be guaranteed admission to a decent school as long as parents have the money and can float through 4 years of undergrad by getting cheat sheets from frat brothers and inevitable summer internships every year. Both husband and I are from a different country and are not used to this whole frat, athlete dominated society of Wall Street who get these high paying jobs from their dad’s friends not from actually working hard. In Ireland where we’re from, you either have the smarts or you don’t to get into these universities and obtain these jobs. For example, a 3.0 kid at a rich kid school like bucknell would never be able to get into the most sought after Irish colleges like trinity and university college Dublin. The kids in the finance majors at the mentioned schools are there for their high Leaving Cert marks(Irish version of a levels).

I agree. The European education system is way more meritocratic and fair

No, it isn't. I work with a lot of people in finance in Europe and my DH works in a leadership role for a European company. The system clearly isn't that meritocratic when you find out what people's fathers did and which boarding schools (and yes, most execs attended boarding schools) in Switzerland and the UK everyone attended.

Anonymous wrote:Never heard of Bucknell. Does this school generally place on Wall street?

Yes

Never heard of Bucknell. Does this school generally place on Wall street?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS is a D1 athlete and also a talented musician at a well known state school. All the frat bros want to be his friends and convince their father to hire DS for financial consulting internship after DS freshman year. The key here is networking and have something that people want. My DS is dating one of the frat bros’ younger sister whose dad is a CEO of a bank. His future is looking up.

OP is wasting money at Bicknell if your DS can’t network there.

What does DS have that makes people "convince their father to hire" him?

About dating a nepo baby, that may or may not pay off.

Frat bros want to hang out with D1 athletes because they want access to beautiful college females. They also want to hang out with musicians, and DS has both of them.

The frat bros arranged DS to meet their fathers and DS was hired after five minutes with a handshake.

They like to hire D1 athletes because they are hard workers, work will with others, are determined, and good with time management. It has nothing to do with access to females.

Frat bros want to hang out with D1 athletes because they want access to beautiful college females. They also want to hang out with musicians, and DS has both of them.

The frat bros arranged DS to meet their fathers and DS was hired after five minutes with a handshake

This is so, so gross and sounds like it was written by a “frat bro” who never grew up or a dad who was never popular in college and is proud of the fact that his kid is. “Beautiful college females” are not things that exist for your son to trade on, they are actual people with agency. Is your wife there just as your adornment, too?

I have three kids who were D1 athletes, two work in finance, and none of them had this experience at all. My finance kids networked to get their jobs, but they did it by reaching out to the alumni networks at target banks AND they had the grades to back up their credentials.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s clear that your kid doesn’t understand how to get these jobs. It’s not as simple as applying. It’s also not as simple as “nepo baby.” Unfortunately, career services at even better privates are oftentimes almost useless and don’t help students plan their future and act accordingly.

+1 not speaking about bucknell, but at my DS’s school, certain frats basically control the “best” investment clubs, and kids work for each other’s dad’s firm in summers (so you can’t check linkedin and see family connects). My DS is pre med. We don’t have the connects for IB.

OP here. I find it awful how boys club the finance world continues to be in a country that is all about “equality” and the American dream anyone can achieve if they work hard. It’s a quite socialist mentality how these kdis are born into a certain class where they will be guaranteed admission to a decent school as long as parents have the money and can float through 4 years of undergrad by getting cheat sheets from frat brothers and inevitable summer internships every year. Both husband and I are from a different country and are not used to this whole frat, athlete dominated society of Wall Street who get these high paying jobs from their dad’s friends not from actually working hard. In Ireland where we’re from, you either have the smarts or you don’t to get into these universities and obtain these jobs. For example, a 3.0 kid at a rich kid school like bucknell would never be able to get into the most sought after Irish colleges like trinity and university college Dublin. The kids in the finance majors at the mentioned schools are there for their high Leaving Cert marks(Irish version of a levels).

You’re kid presumably wasn’t able to get into the best colleges either. Bucknell is for rich kids and it does a good job of educating them. IB is all about networking and connections. If you want a finance job based on knowledge and skill, be a quant (if your kid is capable)

+1 I can’t confirm the “old boys club” because I avoided finance like the plague but if you’re so convinced it’s really why are you pushing your kid into that field? There are any number of fields that don’t require any networking at all and pay well. I’m a computer scientist, and have never bothered to intentionally network beyond maintaining good relations with my colleagues. Well paid, and I’ve never had an issue getting jobs by cold applying, including internships in college.

+1 ppl say biglaw is bad bc it's elitist about school pedigree etc but that's more of a meritocracy than what OP is describing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS is a D1 athlete and also a talented musician at a well known state school. All the frat bros want to be his friends and convince their father to hire DS for financial consulting internship after DS freshman year. The key here is networking and have something that people want. My DS is dating one of the frat bros’ younger sister whose dad is a CEO of a bank. His future is looking up.

OP is wasting money at Bicknell if your DS can’t network there.

What does DS have that makes people "convince their father to hire" him?

About dating a nepo baby, that may or may not pay off.

Frat bros want to hang out with D1 athletes because they want access to beautiful college females. They also want to hang out with musicians, and DS has both of them.

The frat bros arranged DS to meet their fathers and DS was hired after five minutes with a handshake.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s clear that your kid doesn’t understand how to get these jobs. It’s not as simple as applying. It’s also not as simple as “nepo baby.” Unfortunately, career services at even better privates are oftentimes almost useless and don’t help students plan their future and act accordingly.

+1 not speaking about bucknell, but at my DS’s school, certain frats basically control the “best” investment clubs, and kids work for each other’s dad’s firm in summers (so you can’t check linkedin and see family connects). My DS is pre med. We don’t have the connects for IB.

OP here. I find it awful how boys club the finance world continues to be in a country that is all about “equality” and the American dream anyone can achieve if they work hard. It’s a quite socialist mentality how these kdis are born into a certain class where they will be guaranteed admission to a decent school as long as parents have the money and can float through 4 years of undergrad by getting cheat sheets from frat brothers and inevitable summer internships every year. Both husband and I are from a different country and are not used to this whole frat, athlete dominated society of Wall Street who get these high paying jobs from their dad’s friends not from actually working hard. In Ireland where we’re from, you either have the smarts or you don’t to get into these universities and obtain these jobs. For example, a 3.0 kid at a rich kid school like bucknell would never be able to get into the most sought after Irish colleges like trinity and university college Dublin. The kids in the finance majors at the mentioned schools are there for their high Leaving Cert marks(Irish version of a levels).

You’re kid presumably wasn’t able to get into the best colleges either. Bucknell is for rich kids and it does a good job of educating them. IB is all about networking and connections. If you want a finance job based on knowledge and skill, be a quant (if your kid is capable)

+1 I can’t confirm the “old boys club” because I avoided finance like the plague but if you’re so convinced it’s really why are you pushing your kid into that field? There are any number of fields that don’t require any networking at all and pay well. I’m a computer scientist, and have never bothered to intentionally network beyond maintaining good relations with my colleagues. Well paid, and I’ve never had an issue getting jobs by cold applying, including internships in college.

I am a CS major and my job is to support the technology sales team. My salary is 200K, a good salary, but it is four times less than the lowest salary of the person on the sales team. “Well paid” is relative.

Anonymous wrote:Anyone can do one of these jobs. It doesn’t take a lot of intelligence to understand financial markets and work on PowerPoints. I once was an intern. It’s kind of like how there are millions of kids who would do perfectly fine at Princeton.

The ones who don’t have what it takes won’t get offers after the summer.

The bolder part is 100% true. It’s not rocket science.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s clear that your kid doesn’t understand how to get these jobs. It’s not as simple as applying. It’s also not as simple as “nepo baby.” Unfortunately, career services at even better privates are oftentimes almost useless and don’t help students plan their future and act accordingly.

+1 not speaking about bucknell, but at my DS’s school, certain frats basically control the “best” investment clubs, and kids work for each other’s dad’s firm in summers (so you can’t check linkedin and see family connects). My DS is pre med. We don’t have the connects for IB.

OP here. I find it awful how boys club the finance world continues to be in a country that is all about “equality” and the American dream anyone can achieve if they work hard. It’s a quite socialist mentality how these kdis are born into a certain class where they will be guaranteed admission to a decent school as long as parents have the money and can float through 4 years of undergrad by getting cheat sheets from frat brothers and inevitable summer internships every year. Both husband and I are from a different country and are not used to this whole frat, athlete dominated society of Wall Street who get these high paying jobs from their dad’s friends not from actually working hard. In Ireland where we’re from, you either have the smarts or you don’t to get into these universities and obtain these jobs. For example, a 3.0 kid at a rich kid school like bucknell would never be able to get into the most sought after Irish colleges like trinity and university college Dublin. The kids in the finance majors at the mentioned schools are there for their high Leaving Cert marks(Irish version of a levels).

You’re kid presumably wasn’t able to get into the best colleges either. Bucknell is for rich kids and it does a good job of educating them. IB is all about networking and connections. If you want a finance job based on knowledge and skill, be a quant (if your kid is capable)

+1 I can’t confirm the “old boys club” because I avoided finance like the plague but if you’re so convinced it’s really why are you pushing your kid into that field? There are any number of fields that don’t require any networking at all and pay well. I’m a computer scientist, and have never bothered to intentionally network beyond maintaining good relations with my colleagues. Well paid, and I’ve never had an issue getting jobs by cold applying, including internships in college.