Anonymous
06/16/2023 20:36
Subject: Different approach to solve math problem
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If the kid really understands the math they should be able to do it both ways no problem.
The problem is when kid is good at math but slow terrible at writing, should they get bad math grades / lose all that time to writing?
They don't get extra points in English class for their math prowess.
If the kid already knows the math, then using the time to develop their weakness (writing) seems like a win/win. Hyperfocusing on the grade, which doesn't matter a whit in elementary school, rather than on learning is ridiculous.
I realize that it's gauche to suggest in this modern age, but the time could be spent working on more math. There's plenty to learn.
Like writing proofs?
Proving that every odd square number is equal to 1 modulo 4 is a worthwhile exercise. "Proving" some arithmetic you did in your head by writing out all the arithmetic you did in your head...is not. If you'd extract your head from your butt, you'd understand that.
Anonymous
06/16/2023 19:50
Subject: Different approach to solve math problem
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If the kid really understands the math they should be able to do it both ways no problem.
The problem is when kid is good at math but slow terrible at writing, should they get bad math grades / lose all that time to writing?
They don't get extra points in English class for their math prowess.
If the kid already knows the math, then using the time to develop their weakness (writing) seems like a win/win. Hyperfocusing on the grade, which doesn't matter a whit in elementary school, rather than on learning is ridiculous.
I realize that it's gauche to suggest in this modern age, but the time could be spent working on more math. There's plenty to learn.
Like writing proofs?
Anonymous
06/16/2023 19:45
Subject: Different approach to solve math problem
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If the kid really understands the math they should be able to do it both ways no problem.
The problem is when kid is good at math but slow terrible at writing, should they get bad math grades / lose all that time to writing?
They don't get extra points in English class for their math prowess.
If the kid already knows the math, then using the time to develop their weakness (writing) seems like a win/win. Hyperfocusing on the grade, which doesn't matter a whit in elementary school, rather than on learning is ridiculous.
I realize that it's gauche to suggest in this modern age, but the time could be spent working on more math. There's plenty to learn.
The fact is the kid could spend his time that way. The parent won’t let him, because the parent is absolutely stuck on whether the teacher gives him a gold star on a second grade worksheet that doesn’t count for anything.
How?
"You see Ms. X, despite what you might think, showing my work has limited pedagogical value relative to the time cost it incurs, therefore I will not do it. I will also magically force you to give me extra challenging work once I finish early and magically prevent you from labeling me as insubordinate or immature, even in your own head, thus ensuring an excellent GBRS score"
I don't think that's reasonable to expect from a 2nd grader.
As I implied above - the gold star does count for something - it reinforces the teacher's belief in the obed- erc, intelligence of the child, which makes a big different for 3rd grade AAP placement given how important GBRS is.
I have no idea what “GBRS” or “AAP” are, but goodness, what a difficult position to put a child in.
Anonymous
06/16/2023 16:32
Subject: Different approach to solve math problem
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If the kid really understands the math they should be able to do it both ways no problem.
The problem is when kid is good at math but slow terrible at writing, should they get bad math grades / lose all that time to writing?
They don't get extra points in English class for their math prowess.
If the kid already knows the math, then using the time to develop their weakness (writing) seems like a win/win. Hyperfocusing on the grade, which doesn't matter a whit in elementary school, rather than on learning is ridiculous.
I realize that it's gauche to suggest in this modern age, but the time could be spent working on more math. There's plenty to learn.
The fact is the kid could spend his time that way. The parent won’t let him, because the parent is absolutely stuck on whether the teacher gives him a gold star on a second grade worksheet that doesn’t count for anything.
How?
"You see Ms. X, despite what you might think, showing my work has limited pedagogical value relative to the time cost it incurs, therefore I will not do it. I will also magically force you to give me extra challenging work once I finish early and magically prevent you from labeling me as insubordinate or immature, even in your own head, thus ensuring an excellent GBRS score"
I don't think that's reasonable to expect from a 2nd grader.
As I implied above - the gold star does count for something - it reinforces the teacher's belief in the obed- erc, intelligence of the child, which makes a big different for 3rd grade AAP placement given how important GBRS is.
Anonymous
06/16/2023 16:25
Subject: Different approach to solve math problem
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If the kid really understands the math they should be able to do it both ways no problem.
The problem is when kid is good at math but slow terrible at writing, should they get bad math grades / lose all that time to writing?
They don't get extra points in English class for their math prowess.
If the kid already knows the math, then using the time to develop their weakness (writing) seems like a win/win. Hyperfocusing on the grade, which doesn't matter a whit in elementary school, rather than on learning is ridiculous.
Writing out a math problem won't improve a student's composition skill. Punishing students who are good at math by preventing them from doing math is not a good solution.
Should kids who finish their essays early start doing math worksheets?
Anonymous
06/15/2023 23:35
Subject: Different approach to solve math problem
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:the answer is all that matters.
Anybody who tells you differently is selling you something.
Does it? I can teach a parrot to say multiplication tables correctly, does that mean the parrot understands multiplication?
It means that when you teach the parrot math concepts and associations they’ll see it better and use it faster and not count on their fingers.
Isn’t map test give you as many problems as you can handle? A concept kid doing 10 problems correctly won’t get as high of a score as a math fact + concept kid doing 20 problems correctly.
It's the opposite. MAP is 40 questions untimed, and adaptive. Inquisitive problem-solvers scores far above grade level because they can take time to solve problems they've never been taught how to do (as long as they understand the vocab and symbols in the question).
If you have the reps and the concepts you get through the tougher questions correctly.
Private school kids don’t prep for erb or map, and their scores are always less than top public districts who do prep and cover more material.
Anonymous
06/15/2023 23:33
Subject: Different approach to solve math problem
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:the answer is all that matters.
Anybody who tells you differently is selling you something.
Does it? I can teach a parrot to say multiplication tables correctly, does that mean the parrot understands multiplication?
It means that when you teach the parrot math concepts and associations they’ll see it better and use it faster and not count on their fingers.
Isn’t map test give you as many problems as you can handle? A concept kid doing 10 problems correctly won’t get as high of a score as a math fact + concept kid doing 20 problems correctly.
Is the map test timed? I didn't think so.
I also don't think the map score should be the goal. It's a tool that educators use to help them guide kids towards the goal which is being able to use math functionally.
I'm a DP and I do think there is a place for fact fluency, but I also think that when parents push it too early it can interfere with kids' understanding of the operations.
No worries then, k-8 education in American stopped math facts, times tables, phonics and spelling years ago.
Have you seen a kumon office yet? It be hoppin’.
Anonymous
06/15/2023 22:45
Subject: Different approach to solve math problem
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If the kid really understands the math they should be able to do it both ways no problem.
The problem is when kid is good at math but slow terrible at writing, should they get bad math grades / lose all that time to writing?
They don't get extra points in English class for their math prowess.
If the kid already knows the math, then using the time to develop their weakness (writing) seems like a win/win. Hyperfocusing on the grade, which doesn't matter a whit in elementary school, rather than on learning is ridiculous.
I realize that it's gauche to suggest in this modern age, but the time could be spent working on more math. There's plenty to learn.
The fact is the kid could spend his time that way. The parent won’t let him, because the parent is absolutely stuck on whether the teacher gives him a gold star on a second grade worksheet that doesn’t count for anything.
Anonymous
06/15/2023 20:07
Subject: Different approach to solve math problem
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If the kid really understands the math they should be able to do it both ways no problem.
The problem is when kid is good at math but slow terrible at writing, should they get bad math grades / lose all that time to writing?
They don't get extra points in English class for their math prowess.
If the kid already knows the math, then using the time to develop their weakness (writing) seems like a win/win. Hyperfocusing on the grade, which doesn't matter a whit in elementary school, rather than on learning is ridiculous.
I realize that it's gauche to suggest in this modern age, but the time could be spent working on more math. There's plenty to learn.
+1
Anonymous
06/15/2023 19:47
Subject: Different approach to solve math problem
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If the kid really understands the math they should be able to do it both ways no problem.
The problem is when kid is good at math but slow terrible at writing, should they get bad math grades / lose all that time to writing?
They don't get extra points in English class for their math prowess.
If the kid already knows the math, then using the time to develop their weakness (writing) seems like a win/win. Hyperfocusing on the grade, which doesn't matter a whit in elementary school, rather than on learning is ridiculous.
I realize that it's gauche to suggest in this modern age, but the time could be spent working on more math. There's plenty to learn.
Anonymous
06/15/2023 19:46
Subject: Different approach to solve math problem
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:the answer is all that matters.
Anybody who tells you differently is selling you something.
Does it? I can teach a parrot to say multiplication tables correctly, does that mean the parrot understands multiplication?
It means that when you teach the parrot math concepts and associations they’ll see it better and use it faster and not count on their fingers.
Isn’t map test give you as many problems as you can handle? A concept kid doing 10 problems correctly won’t get as high of a score as a math fact + concept kid doing 20 problems correctly.
It's the opposite. MAP is 40 questions untimed, and adaptive. Inquisitive problem-solvers scores far above grade level because they can take time to solve problems they've never been taught how to do (as long as they understand the vocab and symbols in the question).
Anonymous
06/15/2023 19:02
Subject: Different approach to solve math problem
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:the answer is all that matters.
Anybody who tells you differently is selling you something.
Does it? I can teach a parrot to say multiplication tables correctly, does that mean the parrot understands multiplication?
It means that when you teach the parrot math concepts and associations they’ll see it better and use it faster and not count on their fingers.
Isn’t map test give you as many problems as you can handle? A concept kid doing 10 problems correctly won’t get as high of a score as a math fact + concept kid doing 20 problems correctly.
Is the map test timed? I didn't think so.
I also don't think the map score should be the goal. It's a tool that educators use to help them guide kids towards the goal which is being able to use math functionally.
I'm a DP and I do think there is a place for fact fluency, but I also think that when parents push it too early it can interfere with kids' understanding of the operations.
Anonymous
06/15/2023 18:59
Subject: Different approach to solve math problem
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:the answer is all that matters.
Anybody who tells you differently is selling you something.
Does it? I can teach a parrot to say multiplication tables correctly, does that mean the parrot understands multiplication?
It means that when you teach the parrot math concepts and associations they’ll see it better and use it faster and not count on their fingers.
Isn’t map test give you as many problems as you can handle? A concept kid doing 10 problems correctly won’t get as high of a score as a math fact + concept kid doing 20 problems correctly.
Anonymous
06/15/2023 18:49
Subject: Different approach to solve math problem
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:the answer is all that matters.
Anybody who tells you differently is selling you something.
Not true in STEM, but maybe that's not where you're aiming?
In stem why does it matter how I get my roots? Or how I multiply? I know that 9 x 5 is 45 and where the curve crosses the axis and that's what matters.
People and teachers get caught up on memorizing things and concepts not what matters. It's like these new math things that were supposed to revolutionize math but just left us all confused.
It matters that people can communicate their process, and prove their work is correct. Practicing it early, even though they aren't yet in situations where they need to use that skill makes sense because it's a difficult skill to master.
Anonymous
06/15/2023 18:47
Subject: Different approach to solve math problem
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If the kid really understands the math they should be able to do it both ways no problem.
The problem is when kid is good at math but slow terrible at writing, should they get bad math grades / lose all that time to writing?
They don't get extra points in English class for their math prowess.
If the kid already knows the math, then using the time to develop their weakness (writing) seems like a win/win. Hyperfocusing on the grade, which doesn't matter a whit in elementary school, rather than on learning is ridiculous.