I think mean kids and mean adults are most happy when they are being mean. The reasons are many and varied.

I also think that what typically makes most of us happy doesn't typically make them happy.

A good friend of mine’s DD is a mean girl. I’ve known her since she was a baby and the tendency was always there but her parents really contribute to it by giving a ton of positive feedback and attention for external “achievements” (looks, sports, anything where they can point out that she’s better than someone else). I have never heard them compliment her being kind, or acknowledge when she’s less than the best. It has given me a new understanding of how some people become mean girls. They believe they are only valuable in comparison to someone else. It’s a sad way to live.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dd is on the receiving end of mean girl behavior in high school from a former friend. My dd is a sweet, empathetic kid and didn't do anything to deserve it. I know that people say there's always two sides of a story, but other people who know my kid and this situation say the same. And my dd isn't the only target of this particular girl. One parent commented to me that their daughter who is still friends with this girl is afraid to essentially be unfriended by said queen bee so she walks on eggshells around her.

So while I'm not happy that my dd is targeted, I'm relieved that they're no longer friends. I sometimes wonder about this queen bee mean girl in particular but also other mean kids. Is she happy because she is at the top of the social totem pole? Is she happy because she has this control and other people know it? Or is she deep down sad and insecure? Does she feel remorse for the way she's acting or does she justify it? Are bullies bullies because they are hiding something?

There are many sides to every story. Just because you think your DD is an angel and that those girls are bullies doesn’t mean that that’s even close to the case.

You are likely a bully yourself. You don’t have self-awareness so you wouldn’t realize it. Only a narcissist would say “just because you think your daughter is an angel…”
(1) you contorted and manipulated her comments
And then “there are many sides to every story…”
(2) you’re trying to sow doubt. Perhaps you have a child who is a bully and people have complained about him/her and so your defenses are up.

Anonymous wrote:You would never know how mean some kids & teens really are by chatting with them at a family gathering or any setting where there’s adults watching. They’re charming and hide their meanness VERY well!

This is something that drives me nuts sometimes. This is what differentiates "mean girl" behavior (or "relational aggression", which is what we should call it since boys can do it to) from bullying or just being a mean person.

A "mean girl" is rarely actually unpleasant, rude, or openly cruel to someone. Their cruelty is all done as subterfuge, often with plausible deniability ("oh I had not idea Larla was even there -- I certainly wasn't trying to exclude her"), and they are usually extremely good at working the refs. Meaning they can be very charming, helpful, even kind to parents, teachers, other popular kids, etc.

One of the meanest people I've ever encountered is best known in my home town for donating a kidney to a kid we went to school with. And while I'm really glad that kid got her kidney and don't deny that was a very kind thing to do, I also 100% believe she did it in part because she knew it would buy her a ton of goodwill to cover up for her incredibly controlling and nasty behavior. And it worked -- a few years later there was this huge problem with a team she was coaching and rampant bullying and harassment of the kids by the coaching staff, and there was no way she wasn't involved but she wound up being the only one not fired. I think people just couldn't reconcile the accusations with her image as just an incredibly kind and generous person, an image she carefully cultivated specifically to cover up what a terrible person she could be.

Anonymous wrote:Not happy. But may not be self aware enough to know they’re unhappy.

This. I think mean people have zero self awareness. They don’t question or doubt themselves. Everyone is against them blah blah. Best to move past them. I do think many end up lonely late in life.

You would never know how mean some kids & teens really are by chatting with them at a family gathering or any setting where there’s adults watching. They’re charming and hide their meanness VERY well!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dd is on the receiving end of mean girl behavior in high school from a former friend. My dd is a sweet, empathetic kid and didn't do anything to deserve it. I know that people say there's always two sides of a story, but other people who know my kid and this situation say the same. And my dd isn't the only target of this particular girl. One parent commented to me that their daughter who is still friends with this girl is afraid to essentially be unfriended by said queen bee so she walks on eggshells around her.

So while I'm not happy that my dd is targeted, I'm relieved that they're no longer friends. I sometimes wonder about this queen bee mean girl in particular but also other mean kids. Is she happy because she is at the top of the social totem pole? Is she happy because she has this control and other people know it? Or is she deep down sad and insecure? Does she feel remorse for the way she's acting or does she justify it? Are bullies bullies because they are hiding something?

There are many sides to every story. Just because you think your DD is an angel and that those girls are bullies doesn’t mean that that’s even close to the case.

+1000 your perception is very unlikely to be accurate. Especially since you seem to be looking to validate that your DD’s frenimy is unhappy/miserable so as to make your DD superior, which is really pathetic. They are still kids. Lots of growth for all still to come.

Op here. I'm not trying to create a narrative that they're unhappy. My dd mentioned that ex friend is always happy because she appears to in school. That's what triggered my question, it made me wonder if she truly is happy, and if mean kids are secure or insecure. I've mentioned before my dd is not her only "victim".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dd is on the receiving end of mean girl behavior in high school from a former friend. My dd is a sweet, empathetic kid and didn't do anything to deserve it. I know that people say there's always two sides of a story, but other people who know my kid and this situation say the same. And my dd isn't the only target of this particular girl. One parent commented to me that their daughter who is still friends with this girl is afraid to essentially be unfriended by said queen bee so she walks on eggshells around her.

So while I'm not happy that my dd is targeted, I'm relieved that they're no longer friends. I sometimes wonder about this queen bee mean girl in particular but also other mean kids. Is she happy because she is at the top of the social totem pole? Is she happy because she has this control and other people know it? Or is she deep down sad and insecure? Does she feel remorse for the way she's acting or does she justify it? Are bullies bullies because they are hiding something?

There are many sides to every story. Just because you think your DD is an angel and that those girls are bullies doesn’t mean that that’s even close to the case.

Sometimes it's just literally one kid. School mean girl decide to taunt DS out of the blue about his height, even though they haven't even been together in a class since KG. Many times, there are not 2 side to every instance, even though some parents like to comfort themselves with the emotional growth their kids will have.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone notice how the mean girl’s friends are never as pretty or as rich as her? She purposefully selects her entourage to be people who appear inferior to her in some way.

This is definitely a real phenomenon and also reminds me of something else.

The stereotype of the "mean girl" is that they bully the shy, nerdy, unpopular kids. And that does happen sometimes. But what seems to be more common is that mean girls will go after peers they view to be threats. The new girl with nice hair who is good at volleyball, or the kid in class who gets straight As, wants to go to med school, and seems sure of herself. I have noticed that mean girls are more likely to express dislike for, spread rumors about, or attempt to exclude someone like that. And as an outsider, it seems pretty obvious that it stems from insecurity -- they view those people as threats and seek to undermine their potential power.

Another phenomenon I've seen is how easily someone becomes what they are accused of being in these social dynamics. I coached a popular recreational activity for middle-school age kids for a while, and I remember watching this happen sometimes. A kid would get singled out for being "weird" even though, from my perspective, all the kids are at least a little weird in some way or another (puberty does that to you). And it's like the more kids said this about someone, the more weird they appeared. They'd just withdraw into themselves. This age makes it especially easy to apply labels to someone and have them stick, or just intimidate them into being what you insist they are. It's really frustrating.

This is what we've seen. The ones at DD's school mostly bully the girls on their radar because they may be smarter or prettier or "better" in different ways.

+1

Mean girls of any age are mean girls because you make them look bad - which is not difficult.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone notice how the mean girl’s friends are never as pretty or as rich as her? She purposefully selects her entourage to be people who appear inferior to her in some way.

This is definitely a real phenomenon and also reminds me of something else.

The stereotype of the "mean girl" is that they bully the shy, nerdy, unpopular kids. And that does happen sometimes. But what seems to be more common is that mean girls will go after peers they view to be threats. The new girl with nice hair who is good at volleyball, or the kid in class who gets straight As, wants to go to med school, and seems sure of herself. I have noticed that mean girls are more likely to express dislike for, spread rumors about, or attempt to exclude someone like that. And as an outsider, it seems pretty obvious that it stems from insecurity -- they view those people as threats and seek to undermine their potential power.

Another phenomenon I've seen is how easily someone becomes what they are accused of being in these social dynamics. I coached a popular recreational activity for middle-school age kids for a while, and I remember watching this happen sometimes. A kid would get singled out for being "weird" even though, from my perspective, all the kids are at least a little weird in some way or another (puberty does that to you). And it's like the more kids said this about someone, the more weird they appeared. They'd just withdraw into themselves. This age makes it especially easy to apply labels to someone and have them stick, or just intimidate them into being what you insist they are. It's really frustrating.

This is what we've seen. The ones at DD's school mostly bully the girls on their radar because they may be smarter or prettier or "better" in different ways.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dd is on the receiving end of mean girl behavior in high school from a former friend. My dd is a sweet, empathetic kid and didn't do anything to deserve it. I know that people say there's always two sides of a story, but other people who know my kid and this situation say the same. And my dd isn't the only target of this particular girl. One parent commented to me that their daughter who is still friends with this girl is afraid to essentially be unfriended by said queen bee so she walks on eggshells around her.

So while I'm not happy that my dd is targeted, I'm relieved that they're no longer friends. I sometimes wonder about this queen bee mean girl in particular but also other mean kids. Is she happy because she is at the top of the social totem pole? Is she happy because she has this control and other people know it? Or is she deep down sad and insecure? Does she feel remorse for the way she's acting or does she justify it? Are bullies bullies because they are hiding something?

There are many sides to every story. Just because you think your DD is an angel and that those girls are bullies doesn’t mean that that’s even close to the case.

+1000 your perception is very unlikely to be accurate. Especially since you seem to be looking to validate that your DD’s frenimy is unhappy/miserable so as to make your DD superior, which is really pathetic. They are still kids. Lots of growth for all still to come.

Anonymous wrote:Anyone notice how the mean girl’s friends are never as pretty or as rich as her? She purposefully selects her entourage to be people who appear inferior to her in some way.

Mean girls are only "happy" (not really) when someone else is being targeted and/or excluded. Mean girls do not have much to offer, and targeting/excluding is what they see as their "superpower" - instead of of what everyone else sees (which is the mean girls downfall).

Mean girls do not have true friends, only people who try to publicly stay on the mean girls "good side", so as to avoid being next on the mean girls radar.

If you grew up in a normal, emotionally and intellectually and socially secure, inclusive, warm, caring, non-abusive and non-narcissistic family and community, you may not learn about man girls until you are an adult, which can be jarring.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone notice how the mean girl’s friends are never as pretty or as rich as her? She purposefully selects her entourage to be people who appear inferior to her in some way.

This is definitely a real phenomenon and also reminds me of something else.

The stereotype of the "mean girl" is that they bully the shy, nerdy, unpopular kids. And that does happen sometimes. But what seems to be more common is that mean girls will go after peers they view to be threats. The new girl with nice hair who is good at volleyball, or the kid in class who gets straight As, wants to go to med school, and seems sure of herself. I have noticed that mean girls are more likely to express dislike for, spread rumors about, or attempt to exclude someone like that. And as an outsider, it seems pretty obvious that it stems from insecurity -- they view those people as threats and seek to undermine their potential power.

Another phenomenon I've seen is how easily someone becomes what they are accused of being in these social dynamics. I coached a popular recreational activity for middle-school age kids for a while, and I remember watching this happen sometimes. A kid would get singled out for being "weird" even though, from my perspective, all the kids are at least a little weird in some way or another (puberty does that to you). And it's like the more kids said this about someone, the more weird they appeared. They'd just withdraw into themselves. This age makes it especially easy to apply labels to someone and have them stick, or just intimidate them into being what you insist they are. It's really frustrating.

X100000

Insecurity is an understatement. Mean girls' biggest fear is that they will be "found out" - all that matters is appearances, in almost every single aspect of the mean girls life.

Anonymous wrote:My child can be mean. We have been getting her therapy for a few years now. Her brain works differently. She has no filter or impulse control. She doesn’t seem to have a personal understanding of her impact. She is not diagnosed with a personality disorder or considered on the spectrum. I am not so sure.

We work with the school to ensure she has minimal impact on other students but I suspect at some point she will need a different learning environment.

I think we need a new therapist tbh

I’m sorry your child is being bullied. I don’t think bullies are happy, they are often detached/disassociated or victims themselves.

Personality disorders aren’t diagnosed before the age of 18 because the personality is still developing as a child goes through childhood/adolescence. This does not mean your child will be diagnosed with one eventually. There could be many reasons why your child is struggling with this. I wish you the best with her and hope she gets some good help going forward.