Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, if I'm driving by a church or looking on a website, what do I look for to tell me they are okay with LGBTQ?

Is United Methodist Church the one going conservative, or going progressive?

It’s the one that is exhibiting God’s command to love ALL people. Yes, they are affirming of LQBTQ as we should all be.

All PEOPLE. Not all behaviors.
The myth that you are compelled/bound to act on your impulses of attraction falls apart if you attempt to hold it up to any scrutiny.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, if I'm driving by a church or looking on a website, what do I look for to tell me they are okay with LGBTQ?

Is United Methodist Church the one going conservative, or going progressive?

It’s the one that is exhibiting God’s command to love ALL people. Yes, they are affirming of LQBTQ as we should all be.

NP. Are you asserting that Christians that oppose same sex marriage because they interpret the Bible's passages on marriage and homosexuality differently than you are violating God's command to love all people? Seems like a pretty bold statement considering that the "progressive" stance is not the norm globally and was a minority stance even in the US and Europe less than 20 years ago.

I'm a different poster, but I agree with this poster. Just because many churches have embraced homophobia over the centuries doesn't make it God's will.

I would love to believe this but I can’t find any (not one) passage on the Bible that defines marriage as anything other than one woman joining in union with one man.
A man shall leave his parents and cleave to his wife and the two shall become one flesh.
In the Bible, this is marriage.

To pretend otherwise is just imposing your own definition and making it something it just….isn’t.

I think the homosexual issue is a tricky one for most Christians.
Most didn’t have an issue with gays in the church in general.
But Ordination of ministers/bishops who want to engage in the practice of same-sex relationships themselves (which, outside of marriage, sex of any kind is named as a sin in the Bible….and Biblical marriage itself is defined as the union between one man and one woman)— it becomes a little trickier to get around. For many believers, a clergy member as a practicing homosexual means that he is engaging in an ongoing act of sin , is unrepentant of that sin, is making no offort to turn from it or cease doing it—so how can he be expected to counsel others to turn away from their own sin??.
To most Bible believing Christians, this would be like a minister being in an adulterous relationship and saying “yeah—so what? Get over it!” rather than confessing that the behavior is sinful, repenting, and asking for forgiveness….and making every effort to stop behaving in an adulterous way. (And for the record, the Bible says that marrying a woman who has been divorced IS adultery, so this even applies to ministers/clergy who remarry to women who are divorced from someone else. It’s a sin.) And the issue is not the sin itself.
We are ALL sinners in need of a savior.
The issue is in claiming that the sin is NOT sinful, refusing to confess the sin, and denying the need to ask for forgiveness, and declining to “go and sin no more.”

I’m all for being embraced by God and the church in spite of ALL my many sins.
But once a church or clergy start re-writing what is actually sinful….and they start calling evil “good” and good “evil”—then we have lost our way.
When a minister embraces sin and refuses to guide people OUT of it….when he espouses a gospel of “live how you want” rather than “live how Christ wants,” then it becomes an issue worthy of reflection. Are we pursuing truth and seeking out Gods desire or are we creating a church that is based on our own desires and calling it Godly?

Anonymous wrote:Disagreement over supporting same sex marriage. Conservative “wing” is leaving.

It’s too bad. We need more denominations that support ALL people.

This is a half truth.

There are many theological changes that progressives are pushing in the United Methodist seminaries that are concerning.
Chief among them is the trend in denying the DIVINITY of CHRIST as a central tenant of Christianity.

The gay thing is a sticking point for many as well—but of my specific UMC starts to espouse that the divinity of Christ is questionable or a matter of personal opinion or some sort of wishy washy stance, that’s when I will decide it’s time to find a new church.

Time will tell.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, if I'm driving by a church or looking on a website, what do I look for to tell me they are okay with LGBTQ?

Is United Methodist Church the one going conservative, or going progressive?

It’s the one that is exhibiting God’s command to love ALL people. Yes, they are affirming of LQBTQ as we should all be.

NP. Are you asserting that Christians that oppose same sex marriage because they interpret the Bible's passages on marriage and homosexuality differently than you are violating God's command to love all people? Seems like a pretty bold statement considering that the "progressive" stance is not the norm globally and was a minority stance even in the US and Europe less than 20 years ago.

I'm a different poster, but I agree with this poster. Just because many churches have embraced homophobia over the centuries doesn't make it God's will.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn’t the same thing just happen with Presbyterians?

No.

That’s not correct. This indeed happened with the Presbyterians (more than a decade ago?). PCA is non-affirming (split from the mainline denomination for a more conservative branch). PC-USA is more liberal/ generally affirming but does leave it up to each individual church.

But, it didn't "just" happen. It happened more than a decade ago.

The UMC looks pretty regressive in only allowing gay clergy now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, if I'm driving by a church or looking on a website, what do I look for to tell me they are okay with LGBTQ?

Is United Methodist Church the one going conservative, or going progressive?

It’s the one that is exhibiting God’s command to love ALL people. Yes, they are affirming of LQBTQ as we should all be.

NP. Are you asserting that Christians that oppose same sex marriage because they interpret the Bible's passages on marriage and homosexuality differently than you are violating God's command to love all people? Seems like a pretty bold statement considering that the "progressive" stance is not the norm globally and was a minority stance even in the US and Europe less than 20 years ago.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, if I'm driving by a church or looking on a website, what do I look for to tell me they are okay with LGBTQ?

Is United Methodist Church the one going conservative, or going progressive?

It’s the one that is exhibiting God’s command to love ALL people. Yes, they are affirming of LQBTQ as we should all be.

Church isn’t about affirmation. It’s about a relationship with God in His house.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn’t the same thing just happen with Presbyterians?

No.

That’s not correct. This indeed happened with the Presbyterians (more than a decade ago?). PCA is non-affirming (split from the mainline denomination for a more conservative branch). PC-USA is more liberal/ generally affirming but does leave it up to each individual church.

Anonymous wrote:So, if I'm driving by a church or looking on a website, what do I look for to tell me they are okay with LGBTQ?

Is United Methodist Church the one going conservative, or going progressive?

It’s the one that is exhibiting God’s command to love ALL people. Yes, they are affirming of LQBTQ as we should all be.

It will be interesting to see how both UMC and GMC grow/shrink over time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A little more info (I am Methodist). The two sects are the traditional which want to bar LGBTQ+ clergy and LGBTQ+ marriages and unions vs the reconciling which allows both. Worldwide the UMC leans slightly traditionalist. Europe is about half-half. Africa is very strongly traditional. However, in the US, about 85-90% of the UMC is reconciling.

In the US, the ruling conferences decided that in the US, UMC will be reconciling. But due to the pandemic and other issues, the ruling body has not formally adopted the reconciling position and will not be meeting again until spring 2024. But many of the conservative congregations want to move on, so in 2023, several of them petitions to withdraw from the UMC and have started a new organization called the Global Methodist Church (GMC). And some of the regional conferences have given permission for local congregations to withdraw from UMC. However, the congregations cannot take their church property with them as that belongs to the national organization. Right now, congregations that withdraw will be given a certain sum of money to support their activities and services in lieu of taking church property.

Across the US, about 3500-4000 congregations have withdrawn from the UMC. A small fraction have remained independent, but the majority are joining the GMC. That's out of about 30K congregations nationwide.

This is interesting, thank you for posting. I didn't realize there were any Protestant denominations where a central body owned the church property (instead of the local congregation owning it).

Not all church property is owned by the UMC and some land that is has mortgage debt. Our congregation discussed leaving over gay marriage being banned and when we ran the numbers, it would have been cheaper to just abandon the church and build a new one than to buy it back.

Anonymous wrote:A little more info (I am Methodist). The two sects are the traditional which want to bar LGBTQ+ clergy and LGBTQ+ marriages and unions vs the reconciling which allows both. Worldwide the UMC leans slightly traditionalist. Europe is about half-half. Africa is very strongly traditional. However, in the US, about 85-90% of the UMC is reconciling.

In the US, the ruling conferences decided that in the US, UMC will be reconciling. But due to the pandemic and other issues, the ruling body has not formally adopted the reconciling position and will not be meeting again until spring 2024. But many of the conservative congregations want to move on, so in 2023, several of them petitions to withdraw from the UMC and have started a new organization called the Global Methodist Church (GMC). And some of the regional conferences have given permission for local congregations to withdraw from UMC. However, the congregations cannot take their church property with them as that belongs to the national organization. Right now, congregations that withdraw will be given a certain sum of money to support their activities and services in lieu of taking church property.

Across the US, about 3500-4000 congregations have withdrawn from the UMC. A small fraction have remained independent, but the majority are joining the GMC. That's out of about 30K congregations nationwide.

This is interesting, thank you for posting. I didn't realize there were any Protestant denominations where a central body owned the church property (instead of the local congregation owning it).

Anonymous wrote:Chesterbook UMC in Fairfax County reportedly is being sold and converted into a school.

I am guessing the current church members and leadership could not buy the church building and land from the UMC and no longer wanted to be a part of the UMC. Not for sure but that’s possible.

At long last, the UMC had held a general conference for the first time in 5 years and they have finally decided that the UMC will no longer forbid the ordination or appointment of practicing homosexuals. This doesn't mean that the church must ordain them or appoint them, but that candidates who are openly gay can no longer be barred from ordination or appointment merely by virtue of their sexual orientation.

Additionally, there are no proscriptions on performing gay weddings. UMC clergy are not mandated to perform such ceremonies, but are no longer barred or sanctioned for performing such ceremonies. So gay clergy and gay marriages are allowed, but not mandated. This definitely fits in with the Methodist motto of "all are welcomed to the table".

During the period from 2019-2023, more conservative churches were allowed to leave the UMC and approximately 7600 churches, or approximately one quarter of the churches, did voluntarily leave the UMC. Some joined the new umbrella organization Global Methodist Church (GMC) and others remained independent. But the remaining congregations and organizations voted 692-51 for the above changes. That's pretty decisive for those that chose to remain within the UMC.

https://apnews.com/article/united-methodist-lgbtq-clergy-general-conference-acabe18fe22b6838e3005ad8895534fa