Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Service fees may not be tip. If you don’t like it go somewhere else.

But in some cases you don’t know there is a service fee until you have been seated, and are reading the menu. How many people do you really think are going to get up and walk out of the restaurant at that point? I would say almost none.

I also don’t tip if there is a 15-20% service fee is included.

Ask. It’s how you’ll know.

Again, you don’t know until you’re seated at the restaurant. Still, the service fee is not a problem on my part because I usually tip between 18 and 20% and I’m not paying a tip on top of a service fee.

I’m sorry are you not able to speak once you’re seated at the table? How do you order?

The whole "trust us because we're the experts" is part of this not so subtle shift in American culture in the last decade and which isn't playing out very well.

I've recently been tempted to cut back tipping from 20% to 15%. Really don't see why it should be any higher.

Anonymous wrote:The idea of paying 40% of your bill in tips is absurd. And I am one of those people who routinely pays at 25% when I get an excellent service or an am a regular. If my husband and I go out for a $200 meal, we are expected to cough up $80 in tips? What if the service was mediocre?

I agree that restaurants following various models, and not knowing what it is until you get the menu/bill is off-putting.

I wish they would build the cost into the food.

+1

The idea of paying 40% of your bill in tips is absurd. And I am one of those people who routinely pays at 25% when I get an excellent service or an am a regular. If my husband and I go out for a $200 meal, we are expected to cough up $80 in tips? What if the service was mediocre?

I agree that restaurants following various models, and not knowing what it is until you get the menu/bill is off-putting.

I wish they would build the cost into the food.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Restaurants should raise their prices enough to pay their employees a decent wage and do away with tips. Or they can set prices with the expectation of a tip that will allow the waitstaff to make the minimum wage. No bogus “service charges” and whatnot. Then the customer can decide whether they can afford to eat there or not.

Restaurants have raised prices and still added service charges. At this point it’s just price gouging.

They're turning into airlines. The meal lists on price, but the bill has a half dozen add ons.

That’s a good way to state it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most places are losing money on food costs. Many still haven’t recovered from covid shut downs.

then their business models are unsustainable. it's been three years. no more COVID excuses.

This. The truth is that a lot of restaurants operate on very narrow margins and there are a zillion reasons restaurants go out of business. It is a tough industry.

Also, it's interesting to me that restaurants are quick to blame customers for their financial woes. Is it the fault of customers if the don't want (or can't!) pay higher prices for food and service? That's just reality. But a lot of restaurants pay outrageous rents to landlords, who could afford to rent for less but choose not to because they don't have to, and I don't hear restaurants talking about usurious rents. Some food costs have increased due to inflation, but some are obviously distributors taking advantage and keeping prices high because they can. I don't hear restaurants complaining about price gouging from their suppliers.

But as a customer, I'm getting a lot of lectures about how I owe them more money and should always be HAPPY to pay it because of this supposedly irreplaceable service they are providing me. And also if the service is bad, I should just suck it up because it's not their fault they are understaffed or that their servers are rude (it actually is, being able to hire and train good staff is at the heart of ever customer service business).

Nope. I've got above-average cooking skills, some All-Clad, and a pantry full of spices. I'm good, thanks.

The truth is that there has always been massive churn in the restaurant industry. It's a very risky business and even successful ones slip or fall out of favor and go under.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Restaurants should raise their prices enough to pay their employees a decent wage and do away with tips. Or they can set prices with the expectation of a tip that will allow the waitstaff to make the minimum wage. No bogus “service charges” and whatnot. Then the customer can decide whether they can afford to eat there or not.

Restaurants have raised prices and still added service charges. At this point it’s just price gouging.

They're turning into airlines. The meal lists on price, but the bill has a half dozen add ons.

Good analogy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Restaurants should raise their prices enough to pay their employees a decent wage and do away with tips. Or they can set prices with the expectation of a tip that will allow the waitstaff to make the minimum wage. No bogus “service charges” and whatnot. Then the customer can decide whether they can afford to eat there or not.

Restaurants have raised prices and still added service charges. At this point it’s just price gouging.

They're turning into airlines. The meal lists on price, but the bill has a half dozen add ons.

Anonymous wrote:Restaurants should raise their prices enough to pay their employees a decent wage and do away with tips. Or they can set prices with the expectation of a tip that will allow the waitstaff to make the minimum wage. No bogus “service charges” and whatnot. Then the customer can decide whether they can afford to eat there or not.

Restaurants have raised prices and still added service charges. At this point it’s just price gouging.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most places are losing money on food costs. Many still haven’t recovered from covid shut downs.

then their business models are unsustainable. it's been three years. no more COVID excuses.

This. The truth is that a lot of restaurants operate on very narrow margins and there are a zillion reasons restaurants go out of business. It is a tough industry.

Also, it's interesting to me that restaurants are quick to blame customers for their financial woes. Is it the fault of customers if the don't want (or can't!) pay higher prices for food and service? That's just reality. But a lot of restaurants pay outrageous rents to landlords, who could afford to rent for less but choose not to because they don't have to, and I don't hear restaurants talking about usurious rents. Some food costs have increased due to inflation, but some are obviously distributors taking advantage and keeping prices high because they can. I don't hear restaurants complaining about price gouging from their suppliers.

But as a customer, I'm getting a lot of lectures about how I owe them more money and should always be HAPPY to pay it because of this supposedly irreplaceable service they are providing me. And also if the service is bad, I should just suck it up because it's not their fault they are understaffed or that their servers are rude (it actually is, being able to hire and train good staff is at the heart of ever customer service business).

Nope. I've got above-average cooking skills, some All-Clad, and a pantry full of spices. I'm good, thanks.

Restaurants should raise their prices enough to pay their employees a decent wage and do away with tips. Or they can set prices with the expectation of a tip that will allow the waitstaff to make the minimum wage. No bogus “service charges” and whatnot. Then the customer can decide whether they can afford to eat there or not.

That's definitely a strange quote. INSANE? Um, ok.

OP, I totally agree about the quote. The restaurant industry is a mess right now. They don't know what they are doing and they don't understand their customer. At all. Here are various arguments I've heard from people in the industry over the last year:

- Customers should be asking servers how much they are compensated and whether service charges are going to staff, and basing tip on that conversation. This is nuts -- I do not want to spend my nice dinner out discussing the waiters compensation, and I definitely don't want to have to increase how much I pay for my meal in order to make up for a stingy owner, especially if I'm already paying a service charge. Work your employment contract out with your employer and leave me out of it.

- Customers should accept rude, slow, or inadequate service because restaurants are all short-staffed and people are burned out from Covid. But... customers are also burned out from Covid. They are not going to accept crap service, especially if they are paying higher prices due to inflation and service charges. I'm not even commenting on whether they should or not -- they just won't.

- Restaurants can't just bake cost of service into food prices because that would make the food much more expensive and then customers wouldn't come in. But then the argument is that the restaurants will still charge this amount that apparently would scare of customers, they'll just do it in a tricky way so the customer doesn't know until the bill arrives. And they think this is a valid argument. What the hell.

- Customers are all rude and unreasonable now and working in food service sucks. I have worked in both food service and other service jobs (retail, personal fitness) and I know that some customers really are terribly rude and unreasonable. So I do get it. But the truth is that if you can't find a way to deal with that, food service is not for you. When I see individual servers saying this, my gentle suggestion is to find another job (it's what I did). Burn out is real and happens in many public-facing industries. But when I see restaurant owners saying this, I don't feel bad for them. Don't go into this industry if you expect to be treated awesome all the time and for all customers to be wonderful. You should only be in the restaurant industry if you understand that customers are sometimes a PITA and still believe that you can find ways to deliver value and please them. Otherwise, get out. It's not for you.

there is a law about junk fees it should apply to tipping and surcharges. You must advertise the cost of the mail including fees.

Anonymous wrote:Most places are losing money on food costs. Many still haven’t recovered from covid shut downs.

then their business models are unsustainable. it's been three years. no more COVID excuses.