Anonymous
Post 04/14/2023 09:24     Subject: Re:If you left Big Law…
Plus 1000 to the PP on being miserable. My DH left an extremely miserable, yet high paying big law position for DOJ. He worked every single minute of the day, loved his job, and traveled extensively pre-pandemic. I went back to work to support our frugal lifestyle. It was miserable for both of us except he loved his job. Fast forward one of our kids needed a school that wasn't our local public option after years of being in public. So we used savings for tuition. Long story now my DH is back in big law. No one has it perfect. You have money and little time, or time and no money. I would suggest a high level gov't position (like Deputy Attorney General, Treasury high level, etc) for a few years and then back to big law or start your own firm. Or stay in big law and teach a class if that's a good hobby - lots of big law folks do that. Or even take a month traveling this summer and he can work when he needs to. It's ok to put the brakes on for a few weeks while he vacations - what does he like - travel, golf, spending time in his hometown - make it work with the funds you have. Rent a house at the beach for June and July, invite his family to join you, give him a bedroom to use as an office. Knowing what I know now - kids are expensive, aging parents are expensive, retirement is no joke - I would have done everything possible to keep the money coming in.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2023 09:22     Subject: If you left Big Law…
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do you already know exactly how much you spend vs. save per year?


I don’t. I’m sure he does- he does all the money management. I know he saves a ton (like more than 1/3 of his salary). But to be honest we don’t track our spending. We’ve never had any sort of budget because we haven’t had to. But neither of us are big spenders so we’ve always lived way under our means.


We have as much saved as you on a fraction of your income (typically 300-400k) so I don’t think you are saving as much as you think. You need to know what your burn rate is (monthly spend) to even begin to answer your question. I SAH a long time so no shade there, but your lack of awareness about your finances should make you more nervous that the finances themselves. I’d be embarrassed.


OP,

This may be harsh, but she is right on.

You need to take more responsibility for your financial future.

I was a SAHM for 8 years, and was very much a part of the budget and investment decisions. If you don't take part, you will always be restless about your finances.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2023 09:20     Subject: If you left Big Law…
I don’t understand what you are anxious about. You have had insanely high earnings for years. Plenty of folks are fine with a government salary.

Spend less and focus on the important things. Your husband is miserable. No one needs a salary in the seven figures. I know of a few suicides of men in their 40s who were husbands and fathers.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2023 09:13     Subject: If you left Big Law…
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do you already know exactly how much you spend vs. save per year?


I don’t. I’m sure he does- he does all the money management. I know he saves a ton (like more than 1/3 of his salary). But to be honest we don’t track our spending. We’ve never had any sort of budget because we haven’t had to. But neither of us are big spenders so we’ve always lived way under our means.


We have as much saved as you on a fraction of your income (typically 300-400k) so I don’t think you are saving as much as you think. You need to know what your burn rate is (monthly spend) to even begin to answer your question. I SAH a long time so no shade there, but your lack of awareness about your finances should make you more nervous that the finances themselves. I’d be embarrassed.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2023 09:12     Subject: If you left Big Law…
Anonymous wrote:Having watched this in my spouse, you should be very careful (and he) to discern if the job is making him miserable or if his personality and characteristics tend him toward being/acting miserably in whatever position he takes. I have seen my spouse in govt, biglaw partnership, and in house positions, and despite the expectations and promises, the result is the same: highly driven, tends to be alpha, butts heads with other alphas, super focused on productivity and getting "clients" answers, obsessed with drilling all the way down and turning over every stone for unpredicted obstacles, etc. Get the picture? If they quit and gardened, they'd still be the same overworking type a person tending toward miserable work environments. Oh, and then when they do take the lower paying job, they're miserable because they aren't making the money even though "I'm working just as hard and have as much stress, so now I have even more stress!" If it works for your spouse to remove the external stress and he can adjust, great. Just don't assume that is 100% guaranteed.


This is a very insightful comment.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2023 09:11     Subject: Re:If you left Big Law…
OP: This book may help. Actually offers significant insights.

What To Do With A Dead Lawyer (1988) by Bill Berger and Ricardo Martinez
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2023 09:02     Subject: If you left Big Law…
Anonymous wrote:Having watched this in my spouse, you should be very careful (and he) to discern if the job is making him miserable or if his personality and characteristics tend him toward being/acting miserably in whatever position he takes. I have seen my spouse in govt, biglaw partnership, and in house positions, and despite the expectations and promises, the result is the same: highly driven, tends to be alpha, butts heads with other alphas, super focused on productivity and getting "clients" answers, obsessed with drilling all the way down and turning over every stone for unpredicted obstacles, etc. Get the picture? If they quit and gardened, they'd still be the same overworking type a person tending toward miserable work environments. Oh, and then when they do take the lower paying job, they're miserable because they aren't making the money even though "I'm working just as hard and have as much stress, so now I have even more stress!" If it works for your spouse to remove the external stress and he can adjust, great. Just don't assume that is 100% guaranteed.


This could very well be the case. But there is only one way for him and OP to find out.

I
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2023 08:58     Subject: If you left Big Law…
Having watched this in my spouse, you should be very careful (and he) to discern if the job is making him miserable or if his personality and characteristics tend him toward being/acting miserably in whatever position he takes. I have seen my spouse in govt, biglaw partnership, and in house positions, and despite the expectations and promises, the result is the same: highly driven, tends to be alpha, butts heads with other alphas, super focused on productivity and getting "clients" answers, obsessed with drilling all the way down and turning over every stone for unpredicted obstacles, etc. Get the picture? If they quit and gardened, they'd still be the same overworking type a person tending toward miserable work environments. Oh, and then when they do take the lower paying job, they're miserable because they aren't making the money even though "I'm working just as hard and have as much stress, so now I have even more stress!" If it works for your spouse to remove the external stress and he can adjust, great. Just don't assume that is 100% guaranteed.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2023 08:56     Subject: If you left Big Law…
Anonymous wrote:If you really are low spenders, then you should be fine if he gets a Gov job. But I'm questioning whether you really are low spenders. $2M in savings for someone earning 7 figures for 5 years, plus probably high six figures before that, seems kind of low. Seems like maybe you are spending more than you think. I think you need to realistically track spending for a while and see what you are truly spending.


Although you are right, there are other expenses that come into play: student loans, saving for down payments, early childcare.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2023 08:52     Subject: Re:If you left Big Law…
Amused by this thread. Only lawyers could turn such a simple issue into pages of comments stating the obvious.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2023 08:51     Subject: Re:If you left Big Law…
OP- please consider that you may need to return to work if he goes to govt. yes you discussed it once upon a time but if he’s no longer in big law, you need to reevaluate. You won’t have to take care of all of the house/kid stuff. He’ll be able to help and likely will want to help. Let him. Give him a chance to lean into fatherhood. He’ll have flexibility to take a day off or work from home if kid is sick. You do not need to stay at home nor should you.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2023 08:50     Subject: Re:If you left Big Law…
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP: Why does your attorney husband hate his job?

Why is he miserable ?

This isn't really about money; it's about happiness. Tough to offer advice without knowing the cause of the problem.

If this was really about money, you wouldn't need outside advice or opinions--at least, you shouldn't.


Clearly you've never worked in big law, and it's doubtful you're an attorney. Butt out.


If you are a biglaw attorney, I think that we all now understand the problem. Thank you.


Oh shut up.

There are more than just biglaw attorneys on this board.

If OP does not want to answer PP's question, that's fine.

Stop being so salty.


LOL ! I think that you need to read the comment by the pretend biglaw a-hole that triggered this response.

Regardless, you are a warm and charming individual. I wish you the best.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2023 08:49     Subject: If you left Big Law…
Anonymous wrote:DH has been a Big Law partner for five years now (one of the top grossing firms in the country). He makes 7 figures including his bonus. And he hates it. He’s miserable. He wants to take a government job for a few years and test it out- says he doesn’t want at the end of his life to say he never tried something else. He’s in a pretty specialized law section and has been successful so he’s pretty confident he would get hired by the government and go back to private if/when he needs.

My question is for anyone who did this- what was your financial cushion? We have about $800,000 equity in our $1.6 M house, with a $4500 monthly mortage. Three kids, one in private preschool and two in public schools in bethesda. Two cars paid for. No debt. Close to $2M in savings not counting house equity. Close to $700,000 in 529’s for the kids (also not counted toward savings). DH feels comfortable living below our means for a few years and draining some of our savings so he can have a job that brings him happiness for some time, knowing he could go back to private if need be. It makes me more anxious. (And I do stay at home, it was a choice we both made when our oldest child was born. I was a preschool teacher and the cost of a nanny or daycare would have been more than I made.). We don’t live extravagant lives- no country clubs, not much expensive travel, no second homes, only once a month cleaners, etc. I want him to be happy more than anything but I worry about whether we can afford to live off of one government salary, even for a few years.


You have more financial cushion than you need. While my spouse worked (and our pay is now 55:45), when I left Big Law as a 5th year associate we had substantially less than your household while having two kids in daycare.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2023 08:45     Subject: If you left Big Law…
If you really are low spenders, then you should be fine if he gets a Gov job. But I'm questioning whether you really are low spenders. $2M in savings for someone earning 7 figures for 5 years, plus probably high six figures before that, seems kind of low. Seems like maybe you are spending more than you think. I think you need to realistically track spending for a while and see what you are truly spending.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2023 07:36     Subject: Re:If you left Big Law…
Anonymous wrote:You should be fine based on what you've said. You or your husband should be able to review your expenses over the last year or 6 months online pretty easily to ensure that is the case.
The one thing I'll say is your husband will probably not want to go back to big law (depending on the area of expertise, he probably can without much difficulty in a better legal market but the desire is unlikely to be there), so the two of you should think about this as a longer term move to a lower income group. Reviewing expenses is important even with great savings because one of you might look at an expense differently in 2 months creating some disagreement.

I'd encourage you to stay a little more involved in your family's overall financial planning too!


Alternative voice here…my DH is a GS-15 lawyer with the government. Take home after healthcare, pension contribution (which will be 4.1% for a new government employee), fsa, and taxes is about $8,000/month (with two extra paychecks per year). That’s assuming no 401k contributions. After their mortgage they are looking at $3500/month for all other expenses. Is it doable without drawing from savings? Doubtful or difficult. And very unlikely he’ll want to go back. If OP doesn’t want to work I think DH should look in-house or this isn’t going to be very sustainable. We have a similar mortgage but I work.