Anonymous wrote:DD accepted to Muhlenberg College and other schools including Indiana (Honors), Maryland, Florida, Pitt. She was actually waitlisted at William and Mary. Applied there because she enjoys liberal arts AND voice/musical theater and we were looking for options where the two could be

Background - She was recently waitlisted at Michigan STMD and rejected at Northwestern after auditioning in person at both places - beautiful voice! She didn't apply to music school at Indiana because she thought it might be too big of a music school. And who knows if she would have gotten in. This entire year has been tough on her.

AT any rate, everyone tells me what a 'great' and 'caring' school Muhlenberg is. And it seems that way. She did a zoom last week and the first question someone asked was how their kid's IEP would be handled.

DD has been in school with many kids with IEP plans, meds, problems. Yes, it is sad in this day and age that kids have this, but she doesn't. She came away from the zoom feeling like Muhlenberg might be a place where quirky kids go who cannot handle bigger places and need a lot of support. She does know several kids who go who are kinda quirky and odd. DD wants to be with different folks.. She loves the arts but doesn't want to be in a school with solely funky arts people.

She takes pride in herself and it made her feel she was accepted to a second rate place. I don't mean to insult Muhlenberg or those who have kids there. I guess I am a little worried too.

Should she target higher ranked places like Maryland, Indiana Honors, Pitt etc in lieu of a smaller school like Muhlenberg?

Does anyone know about Muhlenberg? Can she find academic challenge and peers there? Good outcomes?

SAT is 1400 GPA is 4.7 w/3.98 UW. Beautiful voice. Loves English, History. Just a great kid.

The whole process this year is so difficult.

Thank you!

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Anonymous wrote:I've heard nothing but good feedback on Muhlenberg. I would agree the very few kids I've known who went are fairly quirky (lovely and smart, too)--but I don't know if they represent the norm at all. But they love their school and it seems like a place where people thrive.

Is she interested in W&M's spring admit program for waitlisted students? That might be a great option for her--go abroad for the fall with their partner program and then start at W&M in the spring. There are so many popular acapella groups at W&M, so that would be an easy social "in" for her if she were worried about missing fall (in addition to the supports for the spring admit cohort the school provides as well as friendships from study abroad).

Adding: I am recommending this because of the mid-size of W&M and the "very together" type of student seems aligned with what you mentioned about her. She might also love Pitt if she wants a more lively urban environment.

HI. OP here. YES! The size of W&M AND the robust music department were very intriguing, so she applied there. Bummer - got put on waitlist and her buddies got in. And yes, we are thinking of the fall semester options for that but DD has to be on board. For her, it is psychologically tough because her friends are going off to school in the fall and she would be going to community college or to study abroad (which wasn't really in the cards). It's an option though, and 3.5 months is nothing. And yes, PITT is in the mix. Thanks for your supportive post.

I would be careful about the spring start. Unless she is very social and good at making friends, it can be hard to start mid year and break-in when others have already established friendships.

I agree that it's something to consider--but people who have done the W&M spring start seem to think it works well (I have a kid there who is friends with people who have done it) and isn't too hard to break in socially second semester. If she does the study abroad first she'll have people to bond with that are also going to the school, if she does cc first, maybe she can do some weekend with her friends there in the fall to get to know some people? Also, the music/theater aspect is often a surefire social group compared to other majors/interests just because of shared activities.

Anonymous wrote:I think you and your daughter need to do some real soul-searching about your ableist attitudes.

My dd is disabled, she has an IEP, she is not sad, and she is going to W&M in the fall. She is also kind, creative, smart, and hard-working, and does not think she's too good to share classroom space with kids who are different than she is.

I'm not sure where you think you're going to find a school free of disabled students in 2023. We are long past the point of keeping kids like this locked away from public view. Any top college is going to have kids on the autism spectrum, and the presence of disabled students does not mark a school as "second rate." One of the things she liked about W&M is the emphasis on inclusion--particularly of neurodivergent students: they have a summer bridge program and support groups on campus just for these students, because they believe in them and their ability to succeed with a little extra support.

Unfortunately, my daughter has also had to deal with more than her share of classmates with attitudes like yours. It hurts her, a lot. THAT'S what's sad, in this day and age.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've heard nothing but good feedback on Muhlenberg. I would agree the very few kids I've known who went are fairly quirky (lovely and smart, too)--but I don't know if they represent the norm at all. But they love their school and it seems like a place where people thrive.

Is she interested in W&M's spring admit program for waitlisted students? That might be a great option for her--go abroad for the fall with their partner program and then start at W&M in the spring. There are so many popular acapella groups at W&M, so that would be an easy social "in" for her if she were worried about missing fall (in addition to the supports for the spring admit cohort the school provides as well as friendships from study abroad).

Adding: I am recommending this because of the mid-size of W&M and the "very together" type of student seems aligned with what you mentioned about her. She might also love Pitt if she wants a more lively urban environment.

HI. OP here. YES! The size of W&M AND the robust music department were very intriguing, so she applied there. Bummer - got put on waitlist and her buddies got in. And yes, we are thinking of the fall semester options for that but DD has to be on board. For her, it is psychologically tough because her friends are going off to school in the fall and she would be going to community college or to study abroad (which wasn't really in the cards). It's an option though, and 3.5 months is nothing. And yes, PITT is in the mix. Thanks for your supportive post.

I would be careful about the spring start. Unless she is very social and good at making friends, it can be hard to start mid year and break-in when others have already established friendships.

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Anonymous wrote:My kid was also accepted to Muhlenberg. I have heard it is good for kids with anxiety, which I interpret to mean it is small and supportive. It doesn’t mean every kid who goes there is quirky or has anxiety, but it makes sense that kids who value that would choose a small school. FWIW my son will probably go elsewhere as he has higher ranked and better fitting options. He does have an IEP in HS and takes meds—he also has higher SAT scores than your kid, which I say only because I find your tone a little belittling, even though I get your concerns. A school where theater is the biggest major is going to have a lot of quirky kids but to my mind that’s the theater thing, not SN.

Hi. OP here. I am sorry if you found my tone belittling. That wasn't my intent at all.. Congrats to your kid.

NP, your non-apology apology suggests a real lack of self-awareness. You might want to re-read this part of your post to understand why your tone *was* belittling.

DD has been in school with many kids with IEP plans, meds, problems. Yes, it is sad in this day and age that kids have this, but she doesn't. She came away from the zoom feeling like Muhlenberg might be a place where quirky kids go who cannot handle bigger places and need a lot of support. She does know several kids who go who are kinda quirky and odd. DD wants to be with different folks.. She loves the arts but doesn't want to be in a school with solely funky arts people.

She takes pride in herself and it made her feel she was accepted to a second rate place. I don't mean to insult Muhlenberg or those who have kids there. I guess I am a little worried too.

You and your kid think it’s “sad” that kids have “IEP plans, meds, problems” and that “quirky” kids only go to “second-rate” schools. And all of this off of one question from one kid at an info session. Some self-reflection is in order, OP.

Anonymous wrote:I know several Muhlenberg grads. I wouldn’t describe any of them as quirky.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've heard nothing but good feedback on Muhlenberg. I would agree the very few kids I've known who went are fairly quirky (lovely and smart, too)--but I don't know if they represent the norm at all. But they love their school and it seems like a place where people thrive.

Is she interested in W&M's spring admit program for waitlisted students? That might be a great option for her--go abroad for the fall with their partner program and then start at W&M in the spring. There are so many popular acapella groups at W&M, so that would be an easy social "in" for her if she were worried about missing fall (in addition to the supports for the spring admit cohort the school provides as well as friendships from study abroad).

Adding: I am recommending this because of the mid-size of W&M and the "very together" type of student seems aligned with what you mentioned about her. She might also love Pitt if she wants a more lively urban environment.

HI. OP here. YES! The size of W&M AND the robust music department were very intriguing, so she applied there. Bummer - got put on waitlist and her buddies got in. And yes, we are thinking of the fall semester options for that but DD has to be on board. For her, it is psychologically tough because her friends are going off to school in the fall and she would be going to community college or to study abroad (which wasn't really in the cards). It's an option though, and 3.5 months is nothing. And yes, PITT is in the mix. Thanks for your supportive post.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid was also accepted to Muhlenberg. I have heard it is good for kids with anxiety, which I interpret to mean it is small and supportive. It doesn’t mean every kid who goes there is quirky or has anxiety, but it makes sense that kids who value that would choose a small school. FWIW my son will probably go elsewhere as he has higher ranked and better fitting options. He does have an IEP in HS and takes meds—he also has higher SAT scores than your kid, which I say only because I find your tone a little belittling, even though I get your concerns. A school where theater is the biggest major is going to have a lot of quirky kids but to my mind that’s the theater thing, not SN.

Hi. OP here. I am sorry if you found my tone belittling. That wasn't my intent at all.. Congrats to your kid.

NP, your non-apology apology suggests a real lack of self-awareness. You might want to re-read this part of your post to understand why your tone *was* belittling.

DD has been in school with many kids with IEP plans, meds, problems. Yes, it is sad in this day and age that kids have this, but she doesn't. She came away from the zoom feeling like Muhlenberg might be a place where quirky kids go who cannot handle bigger places and need a lot of support. She does know several kids who go who are kinda quirky and odd. DD wants to be with different folks.. She loves the arts but doesn't want to be in a school with solely funky arts people.

She takes pride in herself and it made her feel she was accepted to a second rate place. I don't mean to insult Muhlenberg or those who have kids there. I guess I am a little worried too.

You and your kid think it’s “sad” that kids have “IEP plans, meds, problems” and that “quirky” kids only go to “second-rate” schools. And all of this off of one question from one kid at an info session. Some self-reflection is in order, OP.

+1 oooof . Too much caffeine...

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Anonymous wrote:I would imagine the location of the school would factor into your decision. Pittsburgh is like 1000x more interesting for a college student than Allentown.

I realize the city is maybe not a factor Freshman year because college is this great new experience. But, once your DD starts looking to branch out she will find little to nothing in Allentown.

+1
Pitt looked like a great option to me too because of location. I personally would vote for Pitt (or W&M spring admit if you're considering that). Pitt is one of the smaller big universities on your list.

That said, being in music/theater will absorb a lot of free time where others would be "exploring" the town around their school--so it may be great for focus to be in a place like Allentown where there's not much outside of it.

Ultimately it's your daughter's choice though--I would just help her weigh the pros and cons of each of her options in a more systematic way rather than going with vague fears.

Although, Pittsburgh is going to have way more actual theatre (large touring productions and small fringe stuff) happening for DD to attend. Also, CMU's theatre program is like #1 in the country...I don't know, but suspect Pitt gets some halo effects from that in terms of agents and other industry professionals visiting Pittsburgh.