Was the MIL murdered? Does TMZ know her story?

OP here- well this just keeps getting messier.

DH (aka DS1) had a call with his sisters (DD1 & DD2) today to check in and see how things were going. Youngest brother (Ds2) declined to join. It looks like there may be more debts than expected (Christmas loan from bank, store credit accounts etc). And the balance of the checking account will go down because MIL received a social security check just before she died. So that will need to be paid back.

Executor (DD1) hasn’t opened probate yet because she doesn’t have the receipt from the funeral home. They were filing to get paid directly from the life insurance.

DH was expecting the call to be about what had to happen next about gathering info, notifying people of death etc. But executor has proposed that she change how the life insurance is paid out to go to the estate so that the car loan can be paid off. DH said he didn’t think that was possible after death, so executor then suggested each sibling privately pay their share of the life insurance to pay off the car loan before probate starts so that things are cleaner.

I feel so bad for DH, he wasn’t expecting that at all. The life insurance money is likely to be 3k at most per child, so these aren’t huge dollar amounts. He was thinking that it would cover his travel costs and part of the money we lost when we cancelled our spring break trip for the funeral.

But now DH is dug in on the principal. He just noticed that our kids are the ones who aren’t in the will at all. Before this I had just assumed he wasn’t bothered by that. But now he’s bothered.

How do I talk him down? I had shared the comments from the PP about being ready to set aside the land because it would likely cause hard feelings no matter what. I think that was helpful. But this feels different.

Anonymous wrote:OP here- was feeling pretty good about plan to minimize drama and support executor.

Now executor has reported that DS2 drained the retirement account before MILs death. Legally this seems like a totally separate issue from the estate since MIL was alive and allowed this. Practically speaking it has really increased the anger amongst the siblings as this will likely mean everything has to be sold to settle debts. It is almost like MIL wanted there to be drama amongst siblings. I feel like I am watching a slow motion train wreck. Ugh.

If the DS2 drained the retirement account and it isn’t a ROTH, the estate may have to pay income tax on it on behalf of the deceased.

DD1 who is the executor and specified to inherit the house can not decide to sell the land that was bequeathed to the 2 sons to cover estate debts while keeping the asset (house) bequeathed to her intact. This would be a conflict of interest. She can not grab any life insurance or accounts that have a designated beneficiary or joint survivor designation into the estate to pay its debts.

Legal is all that matters. That will determine everything.

Also, as others have mentioned, retirement accounts usually pass outside of the will/probate, so that money would not have been used to reduce the debts debts (unless the estate was a named beneficiary of the plan).

The executor needs to understand that she will be a fiduciary and what this entails. She will be acting under supervision of the probate court, which will provide instructions that may give her enough guidance.

This is the order of abatement from the SC Code (Section 62-3-902):

“…shares of distributees abate, without any preference or priority as between real and personal property, in the following order: (1) property not disposed of by the will; (2) residuary devises; (3) general devises; (4) specific devises.”

https://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t62c003.php

Anonymous wrote:OP here- was feeling pretty good about plan to minimize drama and support executor.

Now executor has reported that DS2 drained the retirement account before MILs death. Legally this seems like a totally separate issue from the estate since MIL was alive and allowed this. Practically speaking it has really increased the anger amongst the siblings as this will likely mean everything has to be sold to settle debts. It is almost like MIL wanted there to be drama amongst siblings. I feel like I am watching a slow motion train wreck. Ugh.

No, she simply spoiled her baby boy. I bet she had been doing it his whole life. And he isn't going to want the gravy train to stop now.

It does seem likely that the assets will mostly have to be sold to pay debts. And DS2 is going to whine and complain the whole time.

I don't know what sort of relationship your husband has with his sister - DD1 who took care of MIL - but from my perspective if I was worried about her having a place to live and I was financially able, I would consider supplying the fair market value/appraised amount of the house to the estate so the sister could stay in it.

The normal estate procedure would be add up the bills and then add up the assets. The assets will be sold or can be appraised for their fair market value and then offered to the heirs at that value if they pay the estate. But I don't know how the assets are prioritized for sale if it's expected that there will be assets in excess of the debts. Obviously DD1 and DS2 have an interest in their properties remaining as part of the estate for disbursement, but I don't think that can happen unless all the named heirs agree.

Anonymous wrote:OP here- was feeling pretty good about plan to minimize drama and support executor.

Now executor has reported that DS2 drained the retirement account before MILs death. Legally this seems like a totally separate issue from the estate since MIL was alive and allowed this. Practically speaking it has really increased the anger amongst the siblings as this will likely mean everything has to be sold to settle debts. It is almost like MIL wanted there to be drama amongst siblings. I feel like I am watching a slow motion train wreck. Ugh.

OP, that was my first thought when I read your original post.
The whole thing makes me sad and depressed for your DH's family. Nobody wins here. Mom is lost and now they will lose their sibling relationships too.

BTDT. Lesson here is NOT to do this to your children. Have everything clear and settled while alive.

OP here- was feeling pretty good about plan to minimize drama and support executor.

Now executor has reported that DS2 drained the retirement account before MILs death. Legally this seems like a totally separate issue from the estate since MIL was alive and allowed this. Practically speaking it has really increased the anger amongst the siblings as this will likely mean everything has to be sold to settle debts. It is almost like MIL wanted there to be drama amongst siblings. I feel like I am watching a slow motion train wreck. Ugh.

Anonymous wrote:OP, this does sound complicated and that this may be one of the reasons your DH was distant from his family.

I commend him for trying to save the house for his sister. Late middle aged women who care for their elderly parents often find themselves homeless and cashless after years of service, often when they are grieving.

Also agree with other posters that buying the land could really lead to a no good ending. Best to cut losses and do whatever he can to support the sister who cared for their mom.

This. Get involved to support the sister and anyone else who did the care work for the mom.

After debts are cleared, there may not be much left, so the sister will be lucky if she gets to keep the house. Plan to sell the land and the car to pay the bills and divide what is left.

Just back away unless you are a drama queen. Looks like 5 acres of land there goes for $15-45k. House prices are laughable compared to DC. I'm assuming you all live in the DC area, so I also assume you have your own funds - whatever you might get from this is peanuts and not worth the bother. If one of your kids is supposed to get the car, just let it go. Be thankful if you get anything within 2 years, and then you can attend the next family BBQ with dignity and grace.

OP, this does sound complicated and that this may be one of the reasons your DH was distant from his family.

I commend him for trying to save the house for his sister. Late middle aged women who care for their elderly parents often find themselves homeless and cashless after years of service, often when they are grieving.

Also agree with other posters that buying the land could really lead to a no good ending. Best to cut losses and do whatever he can to support the sister who cared for their mom.

DD1 is executor, but I think she is confused about how this is a supposed to work. She was originally going to hire a private lawyer but decided that was too expensive. So now they are all fighting about what is supposed to happen

DD1 will do/will be required to do what is dictated by the probate court
Or else a lawyer, that DD1 hires, will do/will be required to do what is dictated by the probate court
No drama is necessary

Anonymous wrote:Did your spouse ask you to figure this out? If not, mind your own business.

I see these posts all over the boards and don't get it. Do you people live in a bubble and never interact with others? Do you not talk to friends, spouses, family and exchange ideas and suggestions? Do you not look up ways to help friends and loved ones with their problems? Can you not comprehend that sometimes people need support and may not ask others for fear of imposing, even though the other person would welcome their confidence?

And also this is an anonymous board. It's a relic of the old days now that people have their names and bios plastered over all other social media platforms. This is place to come ask things discreetly. Even if OPs never act on the info they get here, there is no harm in asking.

Anyway, OP, this needs professional guidance to untangle. Bite the bullet and pay for it, or get everyone to chip in, or take it out of the estate. Whatever. But they need a third party badly.