Anonymous
Post 03/27/2023 09:18     Subject: Re:Canceled Right-Wing Event at the Cleveland Park Library
I think there’s clear consensus that no arm of Government, including the library and ANC, should be involved in trying to cancel this event because of the content or hosts. If people want to protest it, that’s their right, but they should be very careful to be respectful of any children attending.

I’ve seen no evidence that the event has been canceled. It seems like the ANC commissioner is just misguided and tweeting. Someone should run against her.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2023 09:10     Subject: Canceled Right-Wing Event at the Cleveland Park Library
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just amazing. If a drag queen story hour were cancelled, these dopes would be marching in the streets. This kind of stunt is so instructive.


You realize those meeting at the library are exactly the folks who try to get drag queen story hours cancelled, right?


These conservative trolls may not respect the free speech rights of others, but DC still has to respect their free speech rights.



If you in any way, shape, or form supported the Stupid Stanford Law students and their recent tantrum/blocking efforts, then you have no room to be discussing "free speech."


Freedom of speech does not guarantee you a platform or an audience. Moreover, Stanford University is a private institution -- that debate has zero to do with the First Amendment and more to do with the notion of free speech in Academia, which is a different conversation but not a Constitutional one.

Provocateurs like these delight in going to places like universities and, apparently, libraries, so they can spout inflammatory things to get a reaction and play victim when people take their bait. This is nothing new. No one will imprison them for saying it, but no one has to go out of their way to accommodate them and provide them a platform, either.


Um the First Amendment absolutely says the public library has to provide them with space without regard for the content of their speech, to the same extent anyone else can access the meeting rooms.

It’s kind of sad how otherwise intelligent-seeming people don’t understand this.


They don’t “understand” anything that doesn’t align with their agenda.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2023 09:10     Subject: Re:Canceled Right-Wing Event at the Cleveland Park Library
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:I have no idea what grounds led to the event being cancelled and, without knowing that, I don't whether the cancellation was justified. But I think it is important to know that these were not just "right-wing personalities". Chaya Raichik is the person behind LibsofTiktok and Jack Posobiec was one of the main proponents of PizzaGate. Both have been linked to acts of violence. In Posobiec's case, it was just up the street from the library. I find it interesting that the Ward 2 Chair of the DC GOP apparently reserved the room for this group.




Please expand on this statement.


Certainly you are aware of the armed attack and attempted arson at Comet Pingpong that resulted from Posobiec's PizzaGate conspiracy theories. For some background on Libsoftiktok, see this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/09/02/lgbtq-threats-hospitals-libs-of-tiktok/

Both were also involved in the January 6 events at the Capitol.



these are not the kind of links that justify prior restraint under the 1st Amend. The standard is extremely high.



Except the precedent for determining WHERE free speech can be exercised is well set. Jack and company are still free to demonstrate on the street outside if they wish. But the SCOTUS has certainly upheld the notion of "free speech zones" at events. I think the library is probably well within its rights to deny space if they have reasonable reason to fear violence.


Except that the only reason why the library would fear violence is if leftist provocateurs show up at the event. This is not a violent event. It is reading a freaking book for kids. Yes Kirk Cameron is a religious nut who doesn’t believe in evolution but if people want their kids to hear whatever ridiculous book he has chosen to read, that’s up to them. People showing up and provoking them is the real problem and is just as bad as the idiot right wingers who show up to drag story time. Just leave it alone.


exactly. shutting it down due to fear of protest is called the “heckler’s veto” and it is absolutely impermissible under the constitution.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2023 09:09     Subject: Canceled Right-Wing Event at the Cleveland Park Library
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just amazing. If a drag queen story hour were cancelled, these dopes would be marching in the streets. This kind of stunt is so instructive.


You realize those meeting at the library are exactly the folks who try to get drag queen story hours cancelled, right?


You realize that there is a bright line between someone having political opinions you don’t agree with and someone hosting an event for children that is by it’s nature sexually transgressive, right? It’s the same reason I’d have no problem with Che Guevara for Kids Story Hour but wouldn’t be okay with Stripper Story Hour. I personally find it gross when people try to overly politicize children and use them as political pawns in general but YMMV.


Exactly. What is the obsession with making children privy to a grown man’s fetish?
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2023 09:09     Subject: Canceled Right-Wing Event at the Cleveland Park Library
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just amazing. If a drag queen story hour were cancelled, these dopes would be marching in the streets. This kind of stunt is so instructive.


You realize those meeting at the library are exactly the folks who try to get drag queen story hours cancelled, right?


These conservative trolls may not respect the free speech rights of others, but DC still has to respect their free speech rights.



If you in any way, shape, or form supported the Stupid Stanford Law students and their recent tantrum/blocking efforts, then you have no room to be discussing "free speech."


Freedom of speech does not guarantee you a platform or an audience. Moreover, Stanford University is a private institution -- that debate has zero to do with the First Amendment and more to do with the notion of free speech in Academia, which is a different conversation but not a Constitutional one.

Provocateurs like these delight in going to places like universities and, apparently, libraries, so they can spout inflammatory things to get a reaction and play victim when people take their bait. This is nothing new. No one will imprison them for saying it, but no one has to go out of their way to accommodate them and provide them a platform, either.


Um the First Amendment absolutely says the public library has to provide them with space without regard for the content of their speech, to the same extent anyone else can access the meeting rooms.

It’s kind of sad how otherwise intelligent-seeming people don’t understand this.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2023 09:07     Subject: Re:Canceled Right-Wing Event at the Cleveland Park Library
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:I have no idea what grounds led to the event being cancelled and, without knowing that, I don't whether the cancellation was justified. But I think it is important to know that these were not just "right-wing personalities". Chaya Raichik is the person behind LibsofTiktok and Jack Posobiec was one of the main proponents of PizzaGate. Both have been linked to acts of violence. In Posobiec's case, it was just up the street from the library. I find it interesting that the Ward 2 Chair of the DC GOP apparently reserved the room for this group.




Please expand on this statement.


Certainly you are aware of the armed attack and attempted arson at Comet Pingpong that resulted from Posobiec's PizzaGate conspiracy theories. For some background on Libsoftiktok, see this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/09/02/lgbtq-threats-hospitals-libs-of-tiktok/

Both were also involved in the January 6 events at the Capitol.



these are not the kind of links that justify prior restraint under the 1st Amend. The standard is extremely high.



Except the precedent for determining WHERE free speech can be exercised is well set. Jack and company are still free to demonstrate on the street outside if they wish. But the SCOTUS has certainly upheld the notion of "free speech zones" at events. I think the library is probably well within its rights to deny space if they have reasonable reason to fear violence.


false. this is not what the First Amendment says.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2023 09:03     Subject: Canceled Right-Wing Event at the Cleveland Park Library
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just amazing. If a drag queen story hour were cancelled, these dopes would be marching in the streets. This kind of stunt is so instructive.


You realize those meeting at the library are exactly the folks who try to get drag queen story hours cancelled, right?


You realize that there is a bright line between someone having political opinions you don’t agree with and someone hosting an event for children that is by it’s nature sexually transgressive, right? It’s the same reason I’d have no problem with Che Guevara for Kids Story Hour but wouldn’t be okay with Stripper Story Hour. I personally find it gross when people try to overly politicize children and use them as political pawns in general but YMMV.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2023 08:48     Subject: Re:Canceled Right-Wing Event at the Cleveland Park Library
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:I have no idea what grounds led to the event being cancelled and, without knowing that, I don't whether the cancellation was justified. But I think it is important to know that these were not just "right-wing personalities". Chaya Raichik is the person behind LibsofTiktok and Jack Posobiec was one of the main proponents of PizzaGate. Both have been linked to acts of violence. In Posobiec's case, it was just up the street from the library. I find it interesting that the Ward 2 Chair of the DC GOP apparently reserved the room for this group.




Please expand on this statement.


Certainly you are aware of the armed attack and attempted arson at Comet Pingpong that resulted from Posobiec's PizzaGate conspiracy theories. For some background on Libsoftiktok, see this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/09/02/lgbtq-threats-hospitals-libs-of-tiktok/

Both were also involved in the January 6 events at the Capitol.



these are not the kind of links that justify prior restraint under the 1st Amend. The standard is extremely high.



Except the precedent for determining WHERE free speech can be exercised is well set. Jack and company are still free to demonstrate on the street outside if they wish. But the SCOTUS has certainly upheld the notion of "free speech zones" at events. I think the library is probably well within its rights to deny space if they have reasonable reason to fear violence.


Except that the only reason why the library would fear violence is if leftist provocateurs show up at the event. This is not a violent event. It is reading a freaking book for kids. Yes Kirk Cameron is a religious nut who doesn’t believe in evolution but if people want their kids to hear whatever ridiculous book he has chosen to read, that’s up to them. People showing up and provoking them is the real problem and is just as bad as the idiot right wingers who show up to drag story time. Just leave it alone.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2023 08:30     Subject: Canceled Right-Wing Event at the Cleveland Park Library
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just amazing. If a drag queen story hour were cancelled, these dopes would be marching in the streets. This kind of stunt is so instructive.


You realize those meeting at the library are exactly the folks who try to get drag queen story hours cancelled, right?


These conservative trolls may not respect the free speech rights of others, but DC still has to respect their free speech rights.



If you in any way, shape, or form supported the Stupid Stanford Law students and their recent tantrum/blocking efforts, then you have no room to be discussing "free speech."


Freedom of speech does not guarantee you a platform or an audience. Moreover, Stanford University is a private institution -- that debate has zero to do with the First Amendment and more to do with the notion of free speech in Academia, which is a different conversation but not a Constitutional one.

Provocateurs like these delight in going to places like universities and, apparently, libraries, so they can spout inflammatory things to get a reaction and play victim when people take their bait. This is nothing new. No one will imprison them for saying it, but no one has to go out of their way to accommodate them and provide them a platform, either.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2023 08:27     Subject: Re:Canceled Right-Wing Event at the Cleveland Park Library
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:I have no idea what grounds led to the event being cancelled and, without knowing that, I don't whether the cancellation was justified. But I think it is important to know that these were not just "right-wing personalities". Chaya Raichik is the person behind LibsofTiktok and Jack Posobiec was one of the main proponents of PizzaGate. Both have been linked to acts of violence. In Posobiec's case, it was just up the street from the library. I find it interesting that the Ward 2 Chair of the DC GOP apparently reserved the room for this group.




Please expand on this statement.


Certainly you are aware of the armed attack and attempted arson at Comet Pingpong that resulted from Posobiec's PizzaGate conspiracy theories. For some background on Libsoftiktok, see this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/09/02/lgbtq-threats-hospitals-libs-of-tiktok/

Both were also involved in the January 6 events at the Capitol.



these are not the kind of links that justify prior restraint under the 1st Amend. The standard is extremely high.



Except the precedent for determining WHERE free speech can be exercised is well set. Jack and company are still free to demonstrate on the street outside if they wish. But the SCOTUS has certainly upheld the notion of "free speech zones" at events. I think the library is probably well within its rights to deny space if they have reasonable reason to fear violence.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2023 22:03     Subject: Canceled Right-Wing Event at the Cleveland Park Library
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just amazing. If a drag queen story hour were cancelled, these dopes would be marching in the streets. This kind of stunt is so instructive.


You realize those meeting at the library are exactly the folks who try to get drag queen story hours cancelled, right?


These conservative trolls may not respect the free speech rights of others, but DC still has to respect their free speech rights.



If you in any way, shape, or form supported the Stupid Stanford Law students and their recent tantrum/blocking efforts, then you have no room to be discussing "free speech."
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2023 21:00     Subject: Canceled Right-Wing Event at the Cleveland Park Library
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just amazing. If a drag queen story hour were cancelled, these dopes would be marching in the streets. This kind of stunt is so instructive.


You realize those meeting at the library are exactly the folks who try to get drag queen story hours cancelled, right?


These conservative trolls may not respect the free speech rights of others, but DC still has to respect their free speech rights.
jsteele
Post 03/26/2023 19:55     Subject: Canceled Right-Wing Event at the Cleveland Park Library
Anonymous wrote:Just amazing. If a drag queen story hour were cancelled, these dopes would be marching in the streets. This kind of stunt is so instructive.


You realize those meeting at the library are exactly the folks who try to get drag queen story hours cancelled, right?
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2023 19:45     Subject: Canceled Right-Wing Event at the Cleveland Park Library
Just amazing. If a drag queen story hour were cancelled, these dopes would be marching in the streets. This kind of stunt is so instructive.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2023 19:43     Subject: Re:Canceled Right-Wing Event at the Cleveland Park Library
If it's just renting a room, public libraries can't cancel based on the viewpoint of the speaker. However, they can cancel for rules that are applied to everyone, like that the person booking the room needs to be an organizer of the event or something like that.