Anonymous wrote:I'm a long way past school. I sailed through Algebra in eighth grade, but Geometry in ninth was a mystery to me until December. I ended up understanding it, but I still think it was more a maturity thing than an intelligence one. The "light" dawned in December and I went from a D to an A for the rest of thr year.

I don't know if this has anything to do with the price of apples, but it doesn't always follow that if you do well in one thing, you will do well in the next.

Your (and most people's) problems in geometry were because the school system gave you at least 2 years of Prealgebra but almost nothing on pregeometry.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Sorry, most aren’t ready for it. A few ‘are’ because they’ve been tutored and prepped beyond belief at age 10. That doesn’t mean they’ll be successful A very small number require algebra in 6th grade.

It is important that such lies be refuted whenever they are repeated.

One of the underpinnings of the VMPI hate campaign was that those students who are passionate about math will later turn out to be defective in some way when given the support and challenge they require, and that therefore such support must be withheld. This is not just a misconception, it was an outright lie: we know that students who are given the chance to take Algebra in 6th grade outperform their older peers, and continue to do so longitudinally.

The fight about Algebra in 6th is a bit of a strawman fight, too, because the number of students who test ready at that age is actually still small. The real issue seems to be Algebra in 7th, when about 10-20% of students are ready. Some schools send out "math placement letters" telling parents whether their children did or did not get selected. Although and because opportunities for any type of distinction have become so rare in today's school system where so many get all A's, the math placement letter remains one of them: it basically tells the bottom 80% that their child is not in the top 20%. This is hurtful to some (probably including PP), and that may explain (but not excuse!) why they engage in fact distortion, bias, and sometimes outright lies.

So you’re refuting my statement that said exactly what you said?

I'm a long way past school. I sailed through Algebra in eighth grade, but Geometry in ninth was a mystery to me until December. I ended up understanding it, but I still think it was more a maturity thing than an intelligence one. The "light" dawned in December and I went from a D to an A for the rest of thr year.

I don't know if this has anything to do with the price of apples, but it doesn't always follow that if you do well in one thing, you will do well in the next.

Better formatting:

"we know that students who are given the chance to take Algebra in 6th grade outperform their older peers, and continue to do so longitudinally (link to data)."

Anonymous wrote:
Sorry, most aren’t ready for it. A few ‘are’ because they’ve been tutored and prepped beyond belief at age 10. That doesn’t mean they’ll be successful A very small number require algebra in 6th grade.

It is important that such lies be refuted whenever they are repeated.

One of the underpinnings of the VMPI hate campaign was that those students who are passionate about math will later turn out to be defective in some way when given the support and challenge they require, and that therefore such support must be withheld. This is not just a misconception, it was an outright lie: we know that students who are given the chance to take Algebra in 6th grade outperform their older peers, and continue to do so longitudinally.

The fight about Algebra in 6th is a bit of a strawman fight, too, because the number of students who test ready at that age is actually still small. The real issue seems to be Algebra in 7th, when about 10-20% of students are ready. Some schools send out "math placement letters" telling parents whether their children did or did not get selected. Although and because opportunities for any type of distinction have become so rare in today's school system where so many get all A's, the math placement letter remains one of them: it basically tells the bottom 80% that their child is not in the top 20%. This is hurtful to some (probably including PP), and that may explain (but not excuse!) why they engage in fact distortion, bias, and sometimes outright lies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:at our school’s AAP, it looks like fifth grade math is taught again to sixth graders - ratio, percentage, order of operation and basic algebra. It would be better if qualified and ready 6th graders at ALL ES schools would be permitted to take Algebra 1 and not just Haycock.

I suspect Haycock gets a nod/pass from gatehouse because they have large numbers of kids who might be ready or fine with taking it in 6th. Reasons for this are: The level of parental involvement with math is extremely high for that cohort, likely due to prepping for TJ, but also self selection into that pyramid (parents moving into the area hear that Haycock/Longfellow historically is extremely strong in math, so they move there if they can afford it). The Mathcounts metrics confirm that Haycock as an elementary school does really well at Mathcounts and historically has set a large pipeline of students to continue to excel in Mathcounts at Longfellow, etc. They also have a very vocal PTA from what I've heard, so they will obviously push the school/FCPS to get whatever they need to feed this cohort. It probably also doesn't hurt that logistically Haycock is located next to Longfellow, so they can just walk there in 2 mins if they need to take Alg1 or another math course.

But most elementary schools don't have all this setup, so they will not be able to get Alg1 6th grade classes.

This is a very important aspect of why they are able to offer it.

Anonymous wrote:Algebra 1 should be available in 6th grade across FCPS. Sure not every kid is ready for it but a lot are ready. It is about time that the US to keep pace with the rest of the world when it comes to math education.

So glad they shot down the plan to dumb down math, making all 10 graders take Essential Concepts 10, before being able to take “advanced math” classes junior and senior year.

Sorry, most aren’t ready for it. A few ‘are’ because they’ve been tutored and prepped beyond belief at age 10. That doesn’t mean they’ll be successful A very small number require algebra in 6th grade.

Algebra 1 should be available in 6th grade across FCPS. Sure not every kid is ready for it but a lot are ready. It is about time that the US to keep pace with the rest of the world when it comes to math education.

So glad they shot down the plan to dumb down math, making all 10 graders take Essential Concepts 10, before being able to take “advanced math” classes junior and senior year.

If a kid has a greater than 140 (or maybe 145? I can't remember) on the Cogat quant portion in 2nd grade and the teacher notes that they show interest/aptitude for math beyond the AAP curriculum in 3rd and 4th grade, a parent can request they take the IAAT earlier and if they get above 91% on it and they have pass advanced on accelerated level math SOLs, they might be eligible for earlier algebra in 6th grade.

It's very rare at most AAP schools--maybe a kid or two every few years who will likely go on to do math competitions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if your kid is an unusual math genius or not, but it's not really that wise to take Alg 1 hns in 6th grade.

My kid qualified to take it in 7th. We actually declined (his choice) and waited until 8th grade. He's in Alg 2 hns now, and while he is doing well, it's hard! Think down the road to what you are putting your child on track for. S/he will max out of math classes by junior year or earlier if your one to push for Grom in summer.

Teachers know that parents want to push kids into Alg 1 as a way of resume-building for TJ. They will resist your push unless they have seen an extra-ordinary math capability. If not, practice accepting that your kid is not your race horse.

This is us too. My DS qualified for Algebra 1 Honors as a 7th grader and chose to wait to take it in 8th grade.

I heard from many parents that even if your child does well in Algebra 1 Honors in 7th, it can come back to haunt them when they try to take Geometry as an 8th grader and Algebra 2 as a 9th grader. There is often just some maturity lacking at that pace.

I don't see the rush to take Algebra 1 honors as a 6th grader unless you have a super genius mathematician!

There's no need to fear monger. Many kids who are regular, bright kids and not math supergeniuses have no problems whatsoever with Geometry in 8th and Algebra II in 9th. If your kid qualifies to take Algebra in 7th and has reasonably high executive function, your kid will be fine on that track.

I agree. DS is in 9th grade and is currently taking Algebra II honors. We moved to the area for high school, so he didn't take Algebra I and he took an online Geometry class in 8th grade. He often gets 100% in tests and is definitely not a math genius, but he does enjoy math and generally enjoys being challenged at school. If your kid enjoys math, then go for it.

it is not the differntial equations

lets accelerate!

If the kid has the aptitude for it, the teachers would know it and the test scores will show it. I know a few kids that take Algebra I and they’re in 6th grade. They’ve done really well. My 7th grader is also taking Algebra I and is doing great!

Parents know their kids better than anyone else. If you know your child is capable, then encourage taking that step by speaking with the teachers and school. If the child has consistently tested at the higher levels, it’s easier. My kid has always tested high in math.

One of my friends has a daughter that did this. She was identified by the school (Her CogAT was 154, perfect SOL scores, all 4s in everything on the report card). She ended up taking her Algebra I HN online, I believe. She did not struggle with content, but did struggle with the setup, where her class was a mix of ES/MS/HS kids, and the instructor had significant difficulties with managing them.

Because she does not consider herself particularly interested in math, she is going to call it done once she's finished with 9th grade math (Pre-calc, I think).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In order to take Algebra I in 6th grade, they need to take 6th grade pre-algebra in 5th grade (or whenever). So the principal needs to move the child up a grade level (or more) for math. Some principals will consider this, many won't.

This. Two kids did it in our ES in my son’s grade. They joined the 6th grade AAP math class while in 5th so they took the IAAT and 7th grade SOL along with the rest of their math class.

I should add they went to the middle school for first period and then came to our late start ES where they were only a couple of minutes late on the MS odd days.

I heard they have to take the middle school bus and then walk from Longfellow to Haycock without supervision after class, unless a parent picks them up.

We didn't even know this was a possibility until our son's school approached us about it. Basically, they had identified him as a candidate based on some combination of SOL score and 4th grade math teacher comments, and reached out to us in the first couple weeks of 5th grade to see if we were interested. So at that point he switched 6th grade math for the year, with the understanding that if he did well enough on that year's SOL and the IAAT, he would do Algebra I in 6th at the MS.

I don't think that taking extra steps (summer or outside school, tutoring, etc.) to speed up math advancement is a good idea, but he was clearly capable of handling the material then and in later classes, so it's worked out well enough. Not being bored in a year's worth of math class was probably more of a benefit than a hypothetical semester or two freed up in college.

And as it turned out, he's not going to be extra-advanced anyway, since he ended up at TJ with their idiosyncratic math sequencing. Since we won't let him take Math 5 during the summer, he'll do his first calc course a year later than he would've at our base school.