Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've followed since the beginning and knew about Jeff, but not Florence. These are my random thoughts:

Conspiracy theory: This isn't junk as pp said. A massive plane vanished, and there is ZERO established fact around it. So, people are trying to figure it out. Often the public investigate to pressure authorities. Look at what Erin Brokovich or the #freebritney group accomplished.

Phones: I personally believe it all hinges on this. I lived in China for years and the Chinese are OBSESSED with their phones. I'm a rule follower and used to get pissed off because Chinese passengers rarely turned off phones in flight. There is zero chance people wouldn't have called loved ones, even with an oxygen mask on. If the co-pilot knew he got locked out, why wouldn't he grab a passenger's phone and call for help or send a message. For so long people believe the de-pressurized theory, but that still allowed for 15 MINUTES of oxygen. They were only 40 minutes from takeoff, so the drinks service would have started meaning that people would be glued to their phones before going to sleep. It take 10 second to send a text to a loved one if you are fearing something. I hadn't heard of Florence's take, but to me it seems most likely that the AWOKs turned off/scrambled the communications system because it would be immediate, and nobody would have suspected anything. By the time they knew something was wrong, they would no longer have access. Also, if the pilot knew something was wrong, he wouldn't have notified the cabin crew.

Suicide: Least likely. Some guy has a death wish, but again it takes 15 minutes for people to lose consciousness. Look at the 9/11 flight that came together to fight. Why wouldn't this have happened. Again, people were awake and standing at that point. Also, why would he fly for 7 hours with a dead cabin, wearing an oxygen mask and pissing himself waiting for the plane to run out of gas so he could nosedive into the ocean? It makes zero logical sense. Why would the FBI wait nearly 2 years to release his flight data? Why did Intan, the Malaysian flight attendant who lost her husband, say that he was well-liked and none of the staff believed it?

Pilot: Look, he could have done something, but I do not believe it was related suicide. If he was as beloved as Intan and the Malaysian air guy said, I think Florence's theory is best. He would have ignored the commands to turn around because with his communications system down, he couldn't check with Malaysia. He probably knew something was very, very wrong and tried to handle it as best as he could.

Florence's theory: This sounds most likely to me. The cargo that was escorted and not run is troubling, I hadn't heard of it before. Her theory sounds most plausible. And, even if the US wasn't involved why didn't the US tell everyone where MH370 was since the AWOKs were there. I think her theory about it going right past the Butterworth airbase and not being detected makes sense. A pp asked why would the US sacrifice people to do this? Sadly, they probably thought there were few Americans on board, and second they convinced themselves that more people would would get hurt than those on the plane. Or, it was related to something else. Again, a plance doesn't vanish into thin air. The US has to know something. People also seemed to ignore the woman from Texas who had found evidence of something on the satellite images and what other pilots had seen.

Intan: Again, she's the Malaysian flight attendant. She said she didn't believe it flew south, but I really wanted to know her theory.

Still, none of this answers where is the plane? Only one piece recovered has a serial number that matches. Don't get me started on the yahoo who shows up on the beach and "holy smokes!" there is a plane piece, and another, and another. Nope. This is one the greatest, saddest mysteries of our time.

Two things/questions:

1) Even if your phone is on, at cruising altitude, it's not going to work, right? So wouldn't that explain why no one texted/called loved ones?

2) The Atlantic article says the data point to a quick, rapid ascent of 40,000. From the article:

"An electrical engineer in Boulder, Colorado, named Mike Exner, who is a prominent member of the Independent Group, has studied the radar data extensively. He believes that during the turn, the airplane climbed up to 40,000 feet, which was close to its limit. During the maneuver the passengers would have experienced some g‑forces—that feeling of being suddenly pressed back into the seat. Exner believes the reason for the climb was to accelerate the effects of depressurizing the airplane, causing the rapid incapacitation and death of everyone in the cabin.

An intentional depressurization would have been an obvious way—and probably the only way—to subdue a potentially unruly cabin in an airplane that was going to remain in flight for hours to come. In the cabin, the effect would have gone unnoticed but for the sudden appearance of the drop-down oxygen masks and perhaps the cabin crew’s use of the few portable units of similar design. None of those cabin masks was intended for more than about 15 minutes of use during emergency descents to altitudes below 13,000 feet; they would have been of no value at all cruising at 40,000 feet. The cabin occupants would have become incapacitated within a couple of minutes, lost consciousness, and gently died without any choking or gasping for air. The scene would have been dimly lit by the emergency lights, with the dead belted into their seats, their faces nestled in the worthless oxygen masks dangling on tubes from the ceiling."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've followed since the beginning and knew about Jeff, but not Florence. These are my random thoughts:

Conspiracy theory: This isn't junk as pp said. A massive plane vanished, and there is ZERO established fact around it. So, people are trying to figure it out. Often the public investigate to pressure authorities. Look at what Erin Brokovich or the #freebritney group accomplished.

Phones: I personally believe it all hinges on this. I lived in China for years and the Chinese are OBSESSED with their phones. I'm a rule follower and used to get pissed off because Chinese passengers rarely turned off phones in flight. There is zero chance people wouldn't have called loved ones, even with an oxygen mask on. If the co-pilot knew he got locked out, why wouldn't he grab a passenger's phone and call for help or send a message. For so long people believe the de-pressurized theory, but that still allowed for 15 MINUTES of oxygen. They were only 40 minutes from takeoff, so the drinks service would have started meaning that people would be glued to their phones before going to sleep. It take 10 second to send a text to a loved one if you are fearing something. I hadn't heard of Florence's take, but to me it seems most likely that the AWOKs turned off/scrambled the communications system because it would be immediate, and nobody would have suspected anything. By the time they knew something was wrong, they would no longer have access. Also, if the pilot knew something was wrong, he wouldn't have notified the cabin crew.

Suicide: Least likely. Some guy has a death wish, but again it takes 15 minutes for people to lose consciousness. Look at the 9/11 flight that came together to fight. Why wouldn't this have happened. Again, people were awake and standing at that point. Also, why would he fly for 7 hours with a dead cabin, wearing an oxygen mask and pissing himself waiting for the plane to run out of gas so he could nosedive into the ocean? It makes zero logical sense. Why would the FBI wait nearly 2 years to release his flight data? Why did Intan, the Malaysian flight attendant who lost her husband, say that he was well-liked and none of the staff believed it?

Pilot: Look, he could have done something, but I do not believe it was related suicide. If he was as beloved as Intan and the Malaysian air guy said, I think Florence's theory is best. He would have ignored the commands to turn around because with his communications system down, he couldn't check with Malaysia. He probably knew something was very, very wrong and tried to handle it as best as he could.

Florence's theory: This sounds most likely to me. The cargo that was escorted and not run is troubling, I hadn't heard of it before. Her theory sounds most plausible. And, even if the US wasn't involved why didn't the US tell everyone where MH370 was since the AWOKs were there. I think her theory about it going right past the Butterworth airbase and not being detected makes sense. A pp asked why would the US sacrifice people to do this? Sadly, they probably thought there were few Americans on board, and second they convinced themselves that more people would would get hurt than those on the plane. Or, it was related to something else. Again, a plance doesn't vanish into thin air. The US has to know something. People also seemed to ignore the woman from Texas who had found evidence of something on the satellite images and what other pilots had seen.

Intan: Again, she's the Malaysian flight attendant. She said she didn't believe it flew south, but I really wanted to know her theory.

Still, none of this answers where is the plane? Only one piece recovered has a serial number that matches. Don't get me started on the yahoo who shows up on the beach and "holy smokes!" there is a plane piece, and another, and another. Nope. This is one the greatest, saddest mysteries of our time.

You're mixing a lot of different things together here. The AWACS theory only makes sense if MH370 was the only plane in the vicinity to have their comms jammed, which would have happened well after they made the turn south. And she said there were two AWACS. Each AWACS carries a crew of 31 and they could not have downed the plane on its own. I don't buy that more than 60 people know that a passenger aircraft was shot down and no one has talked. I found this whole theory really confusing.

As far as murder/suicide, since we don't know what actually happened, it's entirely possible that the passengers fought back without success. Since 9/11 the pilot can lock the cockpit door and prevent any entry. And while the pilot's family and colleagues say they didn't think suicide was possible there could be a lot of different reasons for that - plain old denial, cultural norms, saving face, the pilot hiding his issues. I do think the FBI should explain (and maybe they have) why the flight simulator data wasn't released for two years, but that clue really ties it all together for me and explains what happened. Or it's time travel and aliens and the plane will show up again someday.

Anonymous wrote:Only ONE number on the “found” piece of evidence matched. This is more than likely a part number which can be found on that piece on many many aircraft.

Part A goes into Part B. It is not like they individually serialize each part number like a VIN

Anonymous wrote:I've followed since the beginning and knew about Jeff, but not Florence. These are my random thoughts:

Conspiracy theory: This isn't junk as pp said. A massive plane vanished, and there is ZERO established fact around it. So, people are trying to figure it out. Often the public investigate to pressure authorities. Look at what Erin Brokovich or the #freebritney group accomplished.

Phones: I personally believe it all hinges on this. I lived in China for years and the Chinese are OBSESSED with their phones. I'm a rule follower and used to get pissed off because Chinese passengers rarely turned off phones in flight. There is zero chance people wouldn't have called loved ones, even with an oxygen mask on. If the co-pilot knew he got locked out, why wouldn't he grab a passenger's phone and call for help or send a message. For so long people believe the de-pressurized theory, but that still allowed for 15 MINUTES of oxygen. They were only 40 minutes from takeoff, so the drinks service would have started meaning that people would be glued to their phones before going to sleep. It take 10 second to send a text to a loved one if you are fearing something. I hadn't heard of Florence's take, but to me it seems most likely that the AWOKs turned off/scrambled the communications system because it would be immediate, and nobody would have suspected anything. By the time they knew something was wrong, they would no longer have access. Also, if the pilot knew something was wrong, he wouldn't have notified the cabin crew.

Suicide: Least likely. Some guy has a death wish, but again it takes 15 minutes for people to lose consciousness. Look at the 9/11 flight that came together to fight. Why wouldn't this have happened. Again, people were awake and standing at that point. Also, why would he fly for 7 hours with a dead cabin, wearing an oxygen mask and pissing himself waiting for the plane to run out of gas so he could nosedive into the ocean? It makes zero logical sense. Why would the FBI wait nearly 2 years to release his flight data? Why did Intan, the Malaysian flight attendant who lost her husband, say that he was well-liked and none of the staff believed it?

Pilot: Look, he could have done something, but I do not believe it was related suicide. If he was as beloved as Intan and the Malaysian air guy said, I think Florence's theory is best. He would have ignored the commands to turn around because with his communications system down, he couldn't check with Malaysia. He probably knew something was very, very wrong and tried to handle it as best as he could.

Florence's theory: This sounds most likely to me. The cargo that was escorted and not run is troubling, I hadn't heard of it before. Her theory sounds most plausible. And, even if the US wasn't involved why didn't the US tell everyone where MH370 was since the AWOKs were there. I think her theory about it going right past the Butterworth airbase and not being detected makes sense. A pp asked why would the US sacrifice people to do this? Sadly, they probably thought there were few Americans on board, and second they convinced themselves that more people would would get hurt than those on the plane. Or, it was related to something else. Again, a plance doesn't vanish into thin air. The US has to know something. People also seemed to ignore the woman from Texas who had found evidence of something on the satellite images and what other pilots had seen.

Intan: Again, she's the Malaysian flight attendant. She said she didn't believe it flew south, but I really wanted to know her theory.

Still, none of this answers where is the plane? Only one piece recovered has a serial number that matches. Don't get me started on the yahoo who shows up on the beach and "holy smokes!" there is a plane piece, and another, and another. Nope. This is one the greatest, saddest mysteries of our time.

Anonymous wrote:Just finished it.

The biggest data point debunking Russian involvement is that the guy who made that claim is still alive. The second biggest is that the Russian nationals that he speculates could have been involved are not publicly identified. The identity of the Skripal poisoners was publicly released after Bellingcat dug into it. There's no way that something similar would not have happened here.

Everyone talks about the pilot being a great guy and how he couldn't do this, but I'd expect his loved ones, colleagues, and in this case, employer, to say that. And there's an element of mental self-preservation there as well.

I felt like there were a lot of things presented in this as established facts, but then I kept wondering where I missed how it was established. The AWACS planes being the main one. Seems like the source for that is the mysterious guy the French survivor met? Even if the US wouldn't officially confirm it I'd think that's another fact that could probably be proven via open source. They have to take off and land from somewhere - and we only have 31 of them?

I first posted that I think the pilot did it, and I still think that. Lots of reasons, but one of the main ones is that no one has come forward in 10 years with any knowledge that has panned out. You can shut a few people up here and there, but not the amount of people you would need to keep quiet if Russians landed the plane in Kazakhstan or it was shot down. Neither of those things happens in a vacuum and someone or many someones would have come forward.

Anonymous wrote:I've followed since the beginning and knew about Jeff, but not Florence. These are my random thoughts:

Conspiracy theory: This isn't junk as pp said. A massive plane vanished, and there is ZERO established fact around it. So, people are trying to figure it out. Often the public investigate to pressure authorities. Look at what Erin Brokovich or the #freebritney group accomplished.

Phones: I personally believe it all hinges on this. I lived in China for years and the Chinese are OBSESSED with their phones. I'm a rule follower and used to get pissed off because Chinese passengers rarely turned off phones in flight. There is zero chance people wouldn't have called loved ones, even with an oxygen mask on. If the co-pilot knew he got locked out, why wouldn't he grab a passenger's phone and call for help or send a message. For so long people believe the de-pressurized theory, but that still allowed for 15 MINUTES of oxygen. They were only 40 minutes from takeoff, so the drinks service would have started meaning that people would be glued to their phones before going to sleep. It take 10 second to send a text to a loved one if you are fearing something. I hadn't heard of Florence's take, but to me it seems most likely that the AWOKs turned off/scrambled the communications system because it would be immediate, and nobody would have suspected anything. By the time they knew something was wrong, they would no longer have access. Also, if the pilot knew something was wrong, he wouldn't have notified the cabin crew.

Suicide: Least likely. Some guy has a death wish, but again it takes 15 minutes for people to lose consciousness. Look at the 9/11 flight that came together to fight. Why wouldn't this have happened. Again, people were awake and standing at that point. Also, why would he fly for 7 hours with a dead cabin, wearing an oxygen mask and pissing himself waiting for the plane to run out of gas so he could nosedive into the ocean? It makes zero logical sense. Why would the FBI wait nearly 2 years to release his flight data? Why did Intan, the Malaysian flight attendant who lost her husband, say that he was well-liked and none of the staff believed it?

Pilot: Look, he could have done something, but I do not believe it was related suicide. If he was as beloved as Intan and the Malaysian air guy said, I think Florence's theory is best. He would have ignored the commands to turn around because with his communications system down, he couldn't check with Malaysia. He probably knew something was very, very wrong and tried to handle it as best as he could.

Florence's theory: This sounds most likely to me. The cargo that was escorted and not run is troubling, I hadn't heard of it before. Her theory sounds most plausible. And, even if the US wasn't involved why didn't the US tell everyone where MH370 was since the AWOKs were there. I think her theory about it going right past the Butterworth airbase and not being detected makes sense. A pp asked why would the US sacrifice people to do this? Sadly, they probably thought there were few Americans on board, and second they convinced themselves that more people would would get hurt than those on the plane. Or, it was related to something else. Again, a plance doesn't vanish into thin air. The US has to know something. People also seemed to ignore the woman from Texas who had found evidence of something on the satellite images and what other pilots had seen.

Intan: Again, she's the Malaysian flight attendant. She said she didn't believe it flew south, but I really wanted to know her theory.

Still, none of this answers where is the plane? Only one piece recovered has a serial number that matches. Don't get me started on the yahoo who shows up on the beach and "holy smokes!" there is a plane piece, and another, and another. Nope. This is one the greatest, saddest mysteries of our time.

Anonymous wrote:Why would the pilot drive for 6 hours to suicide? Why not go down immediately?