Anonymous
02/23/2023 13:56
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You're thinking about it all wrong. There are many more great schools, students, and professors than there were when we were kids. That's cause for celebration, not despair. It's only if you refuse to broaden your view to acknowledge that improvement beyond the traditional elites that things look grim. Adjust your thinking to fit reality for the sake of your own mental health--and especially for your kid's.
OP, you should stop posting now. People are not allowed to be upset about the schools their kids don't get into. People are not allowed to be upset for how much you'll have to spend or how little aid you'll receive.
You need to be happy with the scraps you get. And if you're not, this group of harpies will just go full on flamethrower on you.
So do yourself a favor, and stop checking this Board and asking these questions/expressing your opinions and feelings. I largely have and just check for giggles mostly, no. And it doesn't disappoint.
If you can afford college in a country as rich as the United States, it is not SCRAPS to attend a school ranked higher than 20 by USNWR.
Most of the whining is coming from parents facing that "tragedy."
Sorry if you resent people putting facts into perspective.
Anonymous
02/23/2023 13:53
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
This. Seriously, search back.
People say this EVERY year (even pre-COVID).
It is all about your list.
Applying to a broad range of ELITE schools is not making a balanced list.
98% of the kids who are shut out are to blame (though maybe their parents played a heavy role in the debacle).
NP - seems like part of what is contributing to this angst is the real change in admissions for VA Tech which was a solid option for most strong NOVA applicants until the last few years. If VT becomes a lottery admit it starts to fell pretty crappy (after already accepting that UVA and W&M are beyond reach). This is especially hard to take when other nearby states prioritize their in-state candidates (NC, FL, GA). Not sure if UMD is marching in the same direction for MD students but sounds like that might be the case. I realize that VA doesn't fund State U's to the same extent as others and therefore they have more freedom on admissions criteria but it is a real shift.
Anonymous
02/23/2023 13:53
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have been lurking on this board and College Confidential since DC started freshman year in the fall and I am so shocked and sad for so many of what seem to be stellar students on paper getting deferred or even outright rejected from what used to be deemed "safety' schools. I know we're in a bit of a bubble in the DC area and it can be more competitive trying to get into certain schools from certain school systems (or at least that's what I'm told) but it seems to be especially bad this year? Do you think some of it is a result of COVID with '21 and '22 students taking gap years, and will normalize over time or do you think it will only get worse?
Parents say that every year.. this year is especially bad?? No its been like this
+1. Yes, parents say that every.single.year. Process hasn’t changed and it isn’t any worse. What has changed is now it’s your kid’s turn to go thru the meat grinder and that makes it look and feel much worse than years before.
That isn’t correct, the test optional years have been harder given the huge increase in applications to top schools. Thar said, this year is pretty similar to last year in terms of results.
It is true. Parents always come up with some reason they want to believe. This cycle, it's because TO. A couple years back, it was because Covid, a few years before that, more kids applying, then before that it was Common App...etc. Believe what you want to believe, but it's always the same.
Except we can all look at objective information such as numbers of applications received and acceptance rates. It’s a fact that acceptive rates have plummeted over the past three years.
This has been happening for a while and is well-documented. However, most experts agree that the pandemic/TO has significantly exacerbated the problem.
Public universities: https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/education/3683426-elite-public-colleges-slash-acceptance-rates-raising-pressure-on-students/#:~:text=An%20analysis%20of%20enrollment%20data,and%2052%20percent%20in%202002.
Ivy League: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2022/5/4/selective-universities-not-promoting-admissions-rates/
Anonymous
02/23/2023 13:51
Subject: Re:All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Anonymous wrote:OP, I have a senior that is waiting on results. Like you, I started lurking on this forum and CC starting when kid was a sophomore. Here is what I have gathered. I think it is a combination of multiple factors: (1) Covid and resulting test optional. This significantly increased number of applications and kids who may normally not have applied 6-7 years back, applied. So some kids that may not have gotten in 6-7 years back got in and that means that the denied kids had to choose their safeties. (2) Increased focus on First Gen, and more diverse cohort. I think test optional is a bigger impact and this is secondary. (3) To keep up, since highly selective schools are now a lottery, kids are applying to more schools and this is exacerbates the problem.
I think some schools may go back to requiring tests. It is also possible that due to chatGPT, colleges may rethink or reformat the essays. It will be interesting to see how the next few years will play out.
Regardless, if you aim for T50-150 there is plenty of good colleges for everyone. We should encourage kids to dream but not get hung up on one dream school. Choose a broad range and set expectations with kid accordingly.
Ditto and I agree with this. As someone else mentioned, parents complain every year, but the data shows that schools are getting more applications year over year which makes each new cycle more cutthroat than the one before.
Anonymous
02/23/2023 13:46
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
People say this every year because it's been true every year. We can see the acceptance rates going lower, every year. Once in a while, rates are flat or go up for one school or another, but on the whole, for selective colleges (say, top 100 universities), app numbers continue to climb and according, acceptance rates fall.
Test optional did, in fact, expand the pool of "qualified" applicants, where "qualified" is determined by the colleges, which are now accepting students without test scores.
Pool of students w/high grades >> Pool of students w/high grades AND high scores
Test optional did, in fact, expand the pool of "qualified" applicants, where "qualified" is determined by the colleges, which are now accepting students without test scores.
Pool of students w/high grades >> Pool of students w/high grades AND high scores
Anonymous
02/23/2023 13:36
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Anonymous wrote:You're thinking about it all wrong. There are many more great schools, students, and professors than there were when we were kids. That's cause for celebration, not despair. It's only if you refuse to broaden your view to acknowledge that improvement beyond the traditional elites that things look grim. Adjust your thinking to fit reality for the sake of your own mental health--and especially for your kid's.
OP, you should stop posting now. People are not allowed to be upset about the schools their kids don't get into. People are not allowed to be upset for how much you'll have to spend or how little aid you'll receive.
You need to be happy with the scraps you get. And if you're not, this group of harpies will just go full on flamethrower on you.
So do yourself a favor, and stop checking this Board and asking these questions/expressing your opinions and feelings. I largely have and just check for giggles mostly, no. And it doesn't disappoint.
Anonymous
02/23/2023 13:31
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Hit submit too soon.
Wanted to add that there is a difference recently in that many schools are receiving many more applications than in previous years.
Wanted to add that there is a difference recently in that many schools are receiving many more applications than in previous years.
Anonymous
02/23/2023 13:30
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
I think some of it is COVID. There were a variety of experiences and grade/testing fallout. Also, there is still residual effect of overenrollments for some in '21 due to deferrals in '20.
I also think there are just more high stats kids for whatever reasons. There will be a decline when population drops in a few years. that may have an effect.
I think the erratic nature of the past few years have prompted students to apply to more schools. this generates more rejections even though the pool isn't really bigger.
I also think there are just more high stats kids for whatever reasons. There will be a decline when population drops in a few years. that may have an effect.
I think the erratic nature of the past few years have prompted students to apply to more schools. this generates more rejections even though the pool isn't really bigger.
Anonymous
02/23/2023 13:30
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
"We should encourage kids to dream but not get hung up on one dream school. Choose a broad range and set expectations with kid accordingly."
This has always been the formula for mental health and success.
Every year.
This has always been the formula for mental health and success.
Every year.
Anonymous
02/23/2023 13:29
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Parents say this every year and it’s getting crazier because we are seeing these kids with data at their fingertips all getting pretty good grades in school and have many ways to discover new things they are passionate about.
Anonymous
02/23/2023 13:28
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have been lurking on this board and College Confidential since DC started freshman year in the fall and I am so shocked and sad for so many of what seem to be stellar students on paper getting deferred or even outright rejected from what used to be deemed "safety' schools. I know we're in a bit of a bubble in the DC area and it can be more competitive trying to get into certain schools from certain school systems (or at least that's what I'm told) but it seems to be especially bad this year? Do you think some of it is a result of COVID with '21 and '22 students taking gap years, and will normalize over time or do you think it will only get worse?
Parents say that every year.. this year is especially bad?? No its been like this
+1. Yes, parents say that every.single.year. Process hasn’t changed and it isn’t any worse. What has changed is now it’s your kid’s turn to go thru the meat grinder and that makes it look and feel much worse than years before.
That isn’t correct, the test optional years have been harder given the huge increase in applications to top schools. Thar said, this year is pretty similar to last year in terms of results.
It is true. Parents always come up with some reason they want to believe. This cycle, it's because TO. A couple years back, it was because Covid, a few years before that, more kids applying, then before that it was Common App...etc. Believe what you want to believe, but it's always the same.
Except we can all look at objective information such as numbers of applications received and acceptance rates. It’s a fact that acceptive rates have plummeted over the past three years.
That is true in part because kids apply to a ridiculous number of schools. But each year, some people get shut out because they don't make balanced/realistic lists.
If you don't believe me, spend time reading postings from past years, which say what a particularly bad year it is for their poor child. The "horror stories" of not getting in anywhere or having to contemplate attending a (God forbid) safety school, with students who are clearly not good enough to sit in class with the likes of their son or daughter.
Anonymous
02/23/2023 13:26
Subject: Re:All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
OP, I have a senior that is waiting on results. Like you, I started lurking on this forum and CC starting when kid was a sophomore. Here is what I have gathered. I think it is a combination of multiple factors: (1) Covid and resulting test optional. This significantly increased number of applications and kids who may normally not have applied 6-7 years back, applied. So some kids that may not have gotten in 6-7 years back got in and that means that the denied kids had to choose their safeties. (2) Increased focus on First Gen, and more diverse cohort. I think test optional is a bigger impact and this is secondary. (3) To keep up, since highly selective schools are now a lottery, kids are applying to more schools and this is exacerbates the problem.
I think some schools may go back to requiring tests. It is also possible that due to chatGPT, colleges may rethink or reformat the essays. It will be interesting to see how the next few years will play out.
Regardless, if you aim for T50-150 there is plenty of good colleges for everyone. We should encourage kids to dream but not get hung up on one dream school. Choose a broad range and set expectations with kid accordingly.
I think some schools may go back to requiring tests. It is also possible that due to chatGPT, colleges may rethink or reformat the essays. It will be interesting to see how the next few years will play out.
Regardless, if you aim for T50-150 there is plenty of good colleges for everyone. We should encourage kids to dream but not get hung up on one dream school. Choose a broad range and set expectations with kid accordingly.
Anonymous
02/23/2023 13:26
Subject: Re:All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Great point about many schools going TO. That said, I'm also seeing an incredible number of students with 1400+ SAT scores. I get that I need to not draw from my experience in the 90s when it was rare to hear of someone getting such high or near perfect scores but what is up with so many high scores these days? Has the scoring changed since I remember it? Or has the test itself gotten easier? Or maybe those are the only ones we hear about on here?
The SAT was recentered in 1994 or 1995. Then the writing portion was added, then taken away. The general consensus is that scores are higher now than in the 1990s.
The scores may be higher now than in the 1990s, but only 7% of SAT test takers today get a 1400 or above. And only 2% get 1500 or above.
https://blog.prepscholar.com/sat-percentiles-and-score-rankings
The percentages you quoted are from ONE sitting per test year cycle. You can't use those percentages to determine how many kids are in the pool of high scorers each admissions cycle. This is a common mistake that people make on this forum. One big mistake is not accounting for people that took the test multiple times over one or two years AND superscoring.
The recent Common App report (2022) provides a better understanding of what is happening:
According to the Common App 2022 report, 76,747 applicants applied to universities/colleges with an SAT score >1500 (this includes ACT equivalent scores). 98,498 applicants applied with scores in the 1400-1499 range.
Source: https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/ca.research.publish/Research_Briefs_2022/2022_12_09_Apps_Per_Applicant_ResearchBrief.pdf
Even so, there are more than 175,000 freshman seats at T50 schools. What makes it feel so complicated and chaotic is that to access many of those seats you have to live in the right state or play the SCEA/ED1/ED2 game correctly.
Anonymous
02/23/2023 13:23
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have been lurking on this board and College Confidential since DC started freshman year in the fall and I am so shocked and sad for so many of what seem to be stellar students on paper getting deferred or even outright rejected from what used to be deemed "safety' schools. I know we're in a bit of a bubble in the DC area and it can be more competitive trying to get into certain schools from certain school systems (or at least that's what I'm told) but it seems to be especially bad this year? Do you think some of it is a result of COVID with '21 and '22 students taking gap years, and will normalize over time or do you think it will only get worse?
Parents say that every year.. this year is especially bad?? No its been like this
+1. Yes, parents say that every.single.year. Process hasn’t changed and it isn’t any worse. What has changed is now it’s your kid’s turn to go thru the meat grinder and that makes it look and feel much worse than years before.
That isn’t correct, the test optional years have been harder given the huge increase in applications to top schools. Thar said, this year is pretty similar to last year in terms of results.
It is true. Parents always come up with some reason they want to believe. This cycle, it's because TO. A couple years back, it was because Covid, a few years before that, more kids applying, then before that it was Common App...etc. Believe what you want to believe, but it's always the same.
Except we can all look at objective information such as numbers of applications received and acceptance rates. It’s a fact that acceptive rates have plummeted over the past three years.
Anonymous
02/23/2023 13:18
Subject: Re:All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Great point about many schools going TO. That said, I'm also seeing an incredible number of students with 1400+ SAT scores. I get that I need to not draw from my experience in the 90s when it was rare to hear of someone getting such high or near perfect scores but what is up with so many high scores these days? Has the scoring changed since I remember it? Or has the test itself gotten easier? Or maybe those are the only ones we hear about on here?
The SAT was recentered in 1994 or 1995. Then the writing portion was added, then taken away. The general consensus is that scores are higher now than in the 1990s.
The scores may be higher now than in the 1990s, but only 7% of SAT test takers today get a 1400 or above. And only 2% get 1500 or above.
https://blog.prepscholar.com/sat-percentiles-and-score-rankings
The percentages you quoted are from ONE sitting per test year cycle. You can't use those percentages to determine how many kids are in the pool of high scorers each admissions cycle. This is a common mistake that people make on this forum. One big mistake is not accounting for people that took the test multiple times over one or two years AND superscoring.
The recent Common App report (2022) provides a better understanding of what is happening:
According to the Common App 2022 report, 76,747 applicants applied to universities/colleges with an SAT score >1500 (this includes ACT equivalent scores). 98,498 applicants applied with scores in the 1400-1499 range.
Source: https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/ca.research.publish/Research_Briefs_2022/2022_12_09_Apps_Per_Applicant_ResearchBrief.pdf