Anonymous
02/17/2023 10:07
Subject: Why doesn’t USA Swimming use cut-off dates like every other youth sport?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think aging up on your birthday makes swimming the fairest sport out there.
It can't be anymore fair than that.
I think what OP doesn't like is that it's TOO fair - no potential ambiguity by which one could gain an unfair advantage.
Lol, what?
What could be more fair than competing the age you are at the time of competition, not the age you may have been at some point in the past?
No wiggle room, no ambiguity - you compete at your age.
It's so fair, it just may be too fair for OP because she is used to the the less fair ways that other sports determine age eligibility.
Is this actually a serious post? Let me help you out here. The JO's are March 10. Johnnie turns 11 on March 9, so he has to compete as an 11 year old. Adam turns 13 on March 11, so he competes as a 12 year old in the same races as Johnnie even though he is two years older. Mikey turns 11 on March 11, so he gets to compete as a 10-year old and doesn't have to compete against Johnnie even though he is older 2 days younger.
Anonymous
02/17/2023 09:41
Subject: Why doesn’t USA Swimming use cut-off dates like every other youth sport?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think aging up on your birthday makes swimming the fairest sport out there.
I think it’s fair in theory, but then the swim season shouldn’t be structured around very few championships where the same swimmers benefit from a fortunate birthday year after year.
Cut off dates don't rotate in any other sport. My kid also loves basketball but is born the day before the AAU/travel/rec cutoff, making her the absolute youngest on the team forever. The AAU cutoff is similar to the school cutoff, so she'll be the youngest for her grade each year in high school too. That disadvantage never, ever goes away, especially in a sport where height and size really matter. (If she'd been born two hours later she'd be playing a year down and a huge stand out.)
Swim is much fairer, as kids get to be the oldest in their age division at different points in the season. No one is the absolute youngest for both winter and summer swim.
Anonymous
02/17/2023 09:34
Subject: Why doesn’t USA Swimming use cut-off dates like every other youth sport?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think aging up on your birthday makes swimming the fairest sport out there.
I think it’s fair in theory, but then the swim season shouldn’t be structured around very few championships where the same swimmers benefit from a fortunate birthday year after year.
Nothing is fair. Summer birthdays benefit greatly in summer league. Not fair to others. There are three championship times of year that a kid can excel. We have a kid that is 10 and ages up at the end of February and was able to make the 11-12 cuts for championships. That was the goal and she accomplished it.
New poster: that’s great but it doesn’t change the fact that the worst birthdays for most of swim is feb to mid March. This is especially true once you’re swimming against kids undergoing early puberty or who have a late birthday.
No one is saying that February to early March are good swim birthdays, but using actual birthdays is the most objectively fair way to decide when a kid ages up. An 11 year old or 13 year old cleaning up by swimming down at age group champs is not fair either.
It will never change…but a fairer way to do it is to end it based in mid august when swim ends for everyone. So the age you are as of 10/1 each year is how you will swim the year. Most on the fence kids then have through the March championship meets to make cuts or motivational times.
So a kid that turned 11 on 10/2 would be swimming in the 9-10 group at champs when they are basically 11 and a half? Come on, in an individual sport that is ridiculous.
No. A kid who turns 11 on 10/1 will swim as an 11-12 year old the entire swim season.
Right, but the extension of the logic for the 10/1 cutoff is that a kid that turns 11 on 10/2 (so the day after this cut off) would be swimming in the 9-10 group at champs at age 11 and a half, which is absurd and far more unfair than actually swimming your age.
Anonymous
02/17/2023 09:22
Subject: Re:Why doesn’t USA Swimming use cut-off dates like every other youth sport?
It’s not the JO meet that matters. It’s zones. My kid ages up every year with a bad birthday. Just a few weeks later and this kid would make age group zones (and other travel meets) in the age up year.
Anonymous
02/17/2023 09:20
Subject: Why doesn’t USA Swimming use cut-off dates like every other youth sport?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think aging up on your birthday makes swimming the fairest sport out there.
I think it’s fair in theory, but then the swim season shouldn’t be structured around very few championships where the same swimmers benefit from a fortunate birthday year after year.
Nothing is fair. Summer birthdays benefit greatly in summer league. Not fair to others. There are three championship times of year that a kid can excel. We have a kid that is 10 and ages up at the end of February and was able to make the 11-12 cuts for championships. That was the goal and she accomplished it.
New poster: that’s great but it doesn’t change the fact that the worst birthdays for most of swim is feb to mid March. This is especially true once you’re swimming against kids undergoing early puberty or who have a late birthday.
No one is saying that February to early March are good swim birthdays, but using actual birthdays is the most objectively fair way to decide when a kid ages up. An 11 year old or 13 year old cleaning up by swimming down at age group champs is not fair either.
It will never change…but a fairer way to do it is to end it based in mid august when swim ends for everyone. So the age you are as of 10/1 each year is how you will swim the year. Most on the fence kids then have through the March championship meets to make cuts or motivational times.
So a kid that turned 11 on 10/2 would be swimming in the 9-10 group at champs when they are basically 11 and a half? Come on, in an individual sport that is ridiculous.
No. A kid who turns 11 on 10/1 will swim as an 11-12 year old the entire swim season.
Anonymous
02/17/2023 09:17
Subject: Why doesn’t USA Swimming use cut-off dates like every other youth sport?
In swimming, everyone, at some point gets to compete as the swimmer at (or at least near) the top of their age group.
If you're in a sport (Track & Field for example) with a 12/31 age-up date, and you're born in Dec, you get only to the midpoint of your age group peers before you are kicked up to the next age group.
If you were born on Dec 25th for example, you'd be days removed from being 9 years old and suddenly competing (for the indoor season) against 11-12s because you turn 11 in 360 days.
Swimming is by far a better system.
If you're in a sport (Track & Field for example) with a 12/31 age-up date, and you're born in Dec, you get only to the midpoint of your age group peers before you are kicked up to the next age group.
If you were born on Dec 25th for example, you'd be days removed from being 9 years old and suddenly competing (for the indoor season) against 11-12s because you turn 11 in 360 days.
Swimming is by far a better system.
Anonymous
02/17/2023 09:03
Subject: Re:Why doesn’t USA Swimming use cut-off dates like every other youth sport?
Anonymous wrote:I wholeheartedly agree that the aging up on your actual birthday is the fairest. We have a january birthday- my kid rocked the december championship meets and is not back at the bottom of the age range and will not be swimming in JO's. Oh well- it happens, no big deal. I also fully disagree with the idea that the season is 'structured' around the JO competition- it’s not- its another meet. A fun, competitive meet, but it’s a meet. I find it frustrating for summer swim that basically all of our pool records are held by kids who are in fact 11 when they break the 9-10 record, etc. They all have June birthdays. Certainly wouldn't want to see USA swimming adopt that silly model- and I am confident that they won't.
Totally agree with this. I think people get tunnel vision about JO’s. I have a kid who won several events at JO’s at age 10 (not dc area) and he was way more excited about the times he got right after JO’s at a meet with faster Q times, where he placed out of the top 10. If you ask him about his best meet, he names that one, not JO’s. JO’s are a great way for kids to get used to the prelim/final format and swim against kids they have been racing all season, but to think that it should dictate age cutoffs is shortsighted. Swimming is a long game and JO’s is just one of many stepping stones.
Anonymous
02/17/2023 08:32
Subject: Why doesn’t USA Swimming use cut-off dates like every other youth sport?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think aging up on your birthday makes swimming the fairest sport out there.
I think it’s fair in theory, but then the swim season shouldn’t be structured around very few championships where the same swimmers benefit from a fortunate birthday year after year.
Nothing is fair. Summer birthdays benefit greatly in summer league. Not fair to others. There are three championship times of year that a kid can excel. We have a kid that is 10 and ages up at the end of February and was able to make the 11-12 cuts for championships. That was the goal and she accomplished it.
New poster: that’s great but it doesn’t change the fact that the worst birthdays for most of swim is feb to mid March. This is especially true once you’re swimming against kids undergoing early puberty or who have a late birthday.
No one is saying that February to early March are good swim birthdays, but using actual birthdays is the most objectively fair way to decide when a kid ages up. An 11 year old or 13 year old cleaning up by swimming down at age group champs is not fair either.
It will never change…but a fairer way to do it is to end it based in mid august when swim ends for everyone. So the age you are as of 10/1 each year is how you will swim the year. Most on the fence kids then have through the March championship meets to make cuts or motivational times.
So a kid that turned 11 on 10/2 would be swimming in the 9-10 group at champs when they are basically 11 and a half? Come on, in an individual sport that is ridiculous.
Anonymous
02/17/2023 08:18
Subject: Re:Why doesn’t USA Swimming use cut-off dates like every other youth sport?
I wholeheartedly agree that the aging up on your actual birthday is the fairest. We have a january birthday- my kid rocked the december championship meets and is not back at the bottom of the age range and will not be swimming in JO's. Oh well- it happens, no big deal. I also fully disagree with the idea that the season is 'structured' around the JO competition- its not- its another meet. A fun, competitive meet, but its a meet. I find it frustrating for summer swim that basically all of our pool records are held by kids who are in fact 11 when they break the 9-10 record, etc. They all have June birthdays. Certainly wouldn't want to see USA swimming adopt that silly model- and I am confident that they won't.
Anonymous
02/17/2023 08:18
Subject: Why doesn’t USA Swimming use cut-off dates like every other youth sport?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think aging up on your birthday makes swimming the fairest sport out there.
I think it’s fair in theory, but then the swim season shouldn’t be structured around very few championships where the same swimmers benefit from a fortunate birthday year after year.
Nothing is fair. Summer birthdays benefit greatly in summer league. Not fair to others. There are three championship times of year that a kid can excel. We have a kid that is 10 and ages up at the end of February and was able to make the 11-12 cuts for championships. That was the goal and she accomplished it.
New poster: that’s great but it doesn’t change the fact that the worst birthdays for most of swim is feb to mid March. This is especially true once you’re swimming against kids undergoing early puberty or who have a late birthday.
No one is saying that February to early March are good swim birthdays, but using actual birthdays is the most objectively fair way to decide when a kid ages up. An 11 year old or 13 year old cleaning up by swimming down at age group champs is not fair either.
It will never change…but a fairer way to do it is to end it based in mid august when swim ends for everyone. So the age you are as of 10/1 each year is how you will swim the year. Most on the fence kids then have through the March championship meets to make cuts or motivational times.
Anonymous
02/17/2023 07:10
Subject: Why doesn’t USA Swimming use cut-off dates like every other youth sport?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think aging up on your birthday makes swimming the fairest sport out there.
I think it’s fair in theory, but then the swim season shouldn’t be structured around very few championships where the same swimmers benefit from a fortunate birthday year after year.
Nothing is fair. Summer birthdays benefit greatly in summer league. Not fair to others. There are three championship times of year that a kid can excel. We have a kid that is 10 and ages up at the end of February and was able to make the 11-12 cuts for championships. That was the goal and she accomplished it.
New poster: that’s great but it doesn’t change the fact that the worst birthdays for most of swim is feb to mid March. This is especially true once you’re swimming against kids undergoing early puberty or who have a late birthday.
No one is saying that February to early March are good swim birthdays, but using actual birthdays is the most objectively fair way to decide when a kid ages up. An 11 year old or 13 year old cleaning up by swimming down at age group champs is not fair either.
Anonymous
02/17/2023 07:02
Subject: Why doesn’t USA Swimming use cut-off dates like every other youth sport?
USA Swimming will never change this and I think it's a good thing they won't.
Anonymous
02/17/2023 06:53
Subject: Why doesn’t USA Swimming use cut-off dates like every other youth sport?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think aging up on your birthday makes swimming the fairest sport out there.
I think it’s fair in theory, but then the swim season shouldn’t be structured around very few championships where the same swimmers benefit from a fortunate birthday year after year.
Nothing is fair. Summer birthdays benefit greatly in summer league. Not fair to others. There are three championship times of year that a kid can excel. We have a kid that is 10 and ages up at the end of February and was able to make the 11-12 cuts for championships. That was the goal and she accomplished it.
New poster: that’s great but it doesn’t change the fact that the worst birthdays for most of swim is feb to mid March. This is especially true once you’re swimming against kids undergoing early puberty or who have a late birthday.
Just popping in to say that Katie Ledecky's birthday if March 17, and a she swam as the same age in JOs at least twice. (Like one year they started on the 16th and the following year the 18th)
Clap clap - yes, of course, any of us can cherry pick an example of how this doesn’t matter. But for nearly all kids, the worst swim birthdays through 16, is from Feb through the most of March.
Sorry - misread what you wrote. I have a friend whose daughter did the same at PVS’ Jos - mid March birthday - and her bday one year fell on day 2 of the meet. That was her second year swimming 13/14. The following year, JOs happened again at a time when she swam 13/14 for a third year, even though she turned 15 in the middle of the meet.
Anonymous
02/17/2023 06:50
Subject: Re:Why doesn’t USA Swimming use cut-off dates like every other youth sport?
^^ and the best swim birthdays are very late summer through September.
Anonymous
02/17/2023 06:49
Subject: Why doesn’t USA Swimming use cut-off dates like every other youth sport?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think aging up on your birthday makes swimming the fairest sport out there.
I think it’s fair in theory, but then the swim season shouldn’t be structured around very few championships where the same swimmers benefit from a fortunate birthday year after year.
Nothing is fair. Summer birthdays benefit greatly in summer league. Not fair to others. There are three championship times of year that a kid can excel. We have a kid that is 10 and ages up at the end of February and was able to make the 11-12 cuts for championships. That was the goal and she accomplished it.
New poster: that’s great but it doesn’t change the fact that the worst birthdays for most of swim is feb to mid March. This is especially true once you’re swimming against kids undergoing early puberty or who have a late birthday.
Just popping in to say that Katie Ledecky's birthday if March 17, and a she swam as the same age in JOs at least twice. (Like one year they started on the 16th and the following year the 18th)
Clap clap - yes, of course, any of us can cherry pick an example of how this doesn’t matter. But for nearly all kids, the worst swim birthdays through 16, is from Feb through the most of March.