There’s a difference between relying on a University for support, and the University being extra hands-off and punitive, not willing to work with students in a bind. Given the hoops kids have jumped through over the last few years- covid lockdowns, isolation, poor housing options... If grades suffered, deadlines were missed or health was affected as a result of those experiences- the University shows no grace. Administrators with no medical background override doctors’ letters asking for lenience toward students whose health impacted their grades. Students have to live in Dundee but aren’t told about that prospect during the admissions process. Suddenly the student without a real academic advisor to speak of can be way behind in credits because there are no summer courses offered. Science and medicine aren’t given much weight here compared to protocol and policies. For example- they do not think twice about shutting doors in your student’s face and sending them home for good if their grades suffered because of a health issue, instead of working with them so they can catch up. This is very important to consider even if you don’t think it applies to your student. If something comes up, they are shockingly unforgiving. Embarrassingly so, considering they should know better as thinking educators. The legal protections for students with health issues are different in the UK. Students in the US would have more recourse. St Andrews over accepted anyway, they are happy to offload students if they have a chance because it’s overcrowded at the moment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I only know people who super loved St Andrews and a couple families who have sent multiple kids. I will say these are mostly well off people from nyc (there is a cohort of NYers there), who wouldn't look to the college (any college) for mental health help, etc. Also, two of the families I know have actually bought property there bcs the housing is so bad - and that turned out to be a great investment. (Sold for double a few years later).

Anyway, I think it and other UK schools are an interesting option. It's more hands off, but a lot of us in NYC didn't have high schools that were very hands on tbh. I certainly don't think knowing someone there who is self-centered is meaningful. I mean, look around.

OMG that says everything. Do you have any idea how entitled you sound?

I knew British families who did the same. What they did was to buy a basic flat with an extra bedroom or two that would be rented out to the kid's friends. After graduation the flat was sold and often for a decent profit. They were not rich families, just upper middle class.

and just how many families on here can afford to buy a scottish flat?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I only know people who super loved St Andrews and a couple families who have sent multiple kids. I will say these are mostly well off people from nyc (there is a cohort of NYers there), who wouldn't look to the college (any college) for mental health help, etc. Also, two of the families I know have actually bought property there bcs the housing is so bad - and that turned out to be a great investment. (Sold for double a few years later).

Anyway, I think it and other UK schools are an interesting option. It's more hands off, but a lot of us in NYC didn't have high schools that were very hands on tbh. I certainly don't think knowing someone there who is self-centered is meaningful. I mean, look around.

OMG that says everything. Do you have any idea how entitled you sound?

I knew British families who did the same. What they did was to buy a basic flat with an extra bedroom or two that would be rented out to the kid's friends. After graduation the flat was sold and often for a decent profit. They were not rich families, just upper middle class.

Anonymous wrote:My friend is a tenured professor there. Has been for a while.

I've seen her change from a snarky, critical thinker into someone who parrots the academic liberal party lines on all things gender and colonial. While I don't disagree with the heart of her opinions (I think we're mostly all against homophobia and invading other nations), the way she's become the kind of person who constantly centers oppression in trauma in every single conversation about anything is distressing. And it makes her impossible to talk to. In her eyes, just by virtue of me being American, (so is she) I'm a jingoist oppressor, probably to the right of Trump. Oh, but she hates Biden too, etc. You know the type.

And don't get me started on how she talks about Scottish nationalism. (She's not Scottish.) If you think Americans are bad, wait til she brings up the English. (She's not English.)

My kid at Oxbridge gets this. They hate us

Anonymous wrote:I only know people who super loved St Andrews and a couple families who have sent multiple kids. I will say these are mostly well off people from nyc (there is a cohort of NYers there), who wouldn't look to the college (any college) for mental health help, etc. Also, two of the families I know have actually bought property there bcs the housing is so bad - and that turned out to be a great investment. (Sold for double a few years later).

Anyway, I think it and other UK schools are an interesting option. It's more hands off, but a lot of us in NYC didn't have high schools that were very hands on tbh. I certainly don't think knowing someone there who is self-centered is meaningful. I mean, look around.

OMG that says everything. Do you have any idea how entitled you sound?

I only know people who super loved St Andrews and a couple families who have sent multiple kids. I will say these are mostly well off people from nyc (there is a cohort of NYers there), who wouldn't look to the college (any college) for mental health help, etc. Also, two of the families I know have actually bought property there bcs the housing is so bad - and that turned out to be a great investment. (Sold for double a few years later).

Anyway, I think it and other UK schools are an interesting option. It's more hands off, but a lot of us in NYC didn't have high schools that were very hands on tbh. I certainly don't think knowing someone there who is self-centered is meaningful. I mean, look around.

My friend is a tenured professor there. Has been for a while.

I've seen her change from a snarky, critical thinker into someone who parrots the academic liberal party lines on all things gender and colonial. While I don't disagree with the heart of her opinions (I think we're mostly all against homophobia and invading other nations), the way she's become the kind of person who constantly centers oppression in trauma in every single conversation about anything is distressing. And it makes her impossible to talk to. In her eyes, just by virtue of me being American, (so is she) I'm a jingoist oppressor, probably to the right of Trump. Oh, but she hates Biden too, etc. You know the type.

And don't get me started on how she talks about Scottish nationalism. (She's not Scottish.) If you think Americans are bad, wait til she brings up the English. (She's not English.)

St Andrews is only 193 in the world in the 2024 Times Higher Education rankings

Anonymous wrote:While the BBC news reporting historically was good, for the past few decades their coverage of US-related news events has displayed a shocking ignorance of the US Constitution, division of powers (Executive, Legislative, Judicial branches, but also not understanding that the US is decentralized with different states making different policy choirs).

Many in the UK, for example, assume incorrectly that a US President has the same powers/authority as a UK Prime Minister.

I lived in Britain for a long time and agree with this observation. UK media can be obsessed with American politics and American issues but simultaneously ignorant of the Constitution and balance of powers in the US, persistently and stubbornly after all these decades. There's also ongoing controversy over the growing loss of impartiality, especially in BBC, and I find the Times of London a better news source these days. BBC pretty much just repeats what NYT says without questioning it. Guardian is much worse, it is the epitome of patronizing sneering progressivism.

Anti-Americanism among university administrators and faculty is nothing new, despite the same people also being heavily influenced by American cultural topics and recently the social justice movements, which is also another hot topic of controversy in the UK because the British experience is quite different from the American experience and there's definitely resentment that left wing faculty and admin are copying American woke causes and beliefs.

As for St. A, period or not, it's a well regarded university made somewhat more famous by Prince William. Ranking it as the equivalent of the American Duke or Vanderbilt or Carnegie Mellon versus the Ivies/Oxbridge is accurate. Edinburgh is considered "better" and if anything, I'd think Edinburgh would be a more enjoyable place to study because of the city. St. A is really a small town so it's akin to going to a large LAC in a small town.

choices, not choirs.

While the BBC news reporting historically was good, for the past few decades their coverage of US-related news events has displayed a shocking ignorance of the US Constitution, division of powers (Executive, Legislative, Judicial branches, but also not understanding that the US is decentralized with different states making different policy choirs).

Many in the UK, for example, assume incorrectly that a US President has the same powers/authority as a UK Prime Minister.

Housing is a particular problem in St Andrews (and also in London for the various colleges of the University of London).

At StA, it is very important to apply early for university housing and to stay on top of application deadlines and such.

There is a tension over this locally in Fife, because property owners like the existinghousing crunch - as it supports higher rents on the open market. So it has been difficult for the university to get the (required) planning permission to build additional dorms in or near the town of StA.

Anonymous wrote:Be careful with this place. Our son loved it, but there’s a lot of anti American sentiment from the administration. We never thought we’d need to worry about the negative things we’d read about the school, but it’s there and can affect your student if something comes up. They are trying to raise as much cash as possible from the Americans, but they resent us. Also - there is not enough housing, on campus or off. It’s a huge problem that they dont mention until your freshman has no place to live and gets housed on a satellite campus in a different city an hour away !

+1. I’m glad you reactivated this thread. My DD is at a similar British school abd is experiencing the same anti-American brush off. You are totally on your own

Be careful with this place. Our son loved it, but there’s a lot of anti American sentiment from the administration. We never thought we’d need to worry about the negative things we’d read about the school, but it’s there and can affect your student if something comes up. They are trying to raise as much cash as possible from the Americans, but they resent us. Also - there is not enough housing, on campus or off. It’s a huge problem that they dont mention until your freshman has no place to live and gets housed on a satellite campus in a different city an hour away !

It's a great option for Americans. For the right student (i.e. more independent, socially competent, has a better idea of what they want to study), it can offer a truly amazing university experience.

Academics are more focused, but go more in-depth on the subject matter than american schools—students learn the 'canon' of their disciplines. Academics are more self-directed and independent though—no one is coddling your student.

Very socially vibrant, despite being a small town. Students are very involved in clubs, athletics (competitive with other universities but open to all levels unlike american schools), balls and social events, vibrant student arts and music scenes.

It's very different from an American school, so I would talk with someone in your network who has gone there if you can't visit, or watch youtube videos on the student experience.

But it's a place people love being, highest student satisfaction rates in the UK. the DCUM St Andrews = haters may tell you otherwise, but it's very academically rigorous. It's much smaller and more undergrad focused than most other UK schools. That's probably an advantage for undergrad programs. But rigorous, PhD programs and research across all programs of study—it's a research university. Consistently ranked in top 5 of UK national rankings, sometimes reaching first place in recent years (Guardian, Times, etc)—but again, those aren't world research university rankings.

So definitely continue your research on the school and see if it's a good fit for DC.