OP does have a point if you want to working in banking/finance or tech. If you have a degree from a top undergrad, you can completely skip grad school in those fields. A STEM undergrad from CMU or Stanford or CalTech will let you enter the rarified world of Big Tech and a potential for a big payday. The wealthiest guy I know studied CS at CMU undergrad, worked for Google where he helped invent a product all of you use, and retired at age 39. No grad degree required, he bounced between elite tech firms in the Bay Area before settling in at Google.

Similarly, I know a lot of people that went from undergrad at Harvard & Yale into finance. They ended up being PE execs, running hedge funds, and a partner at Goldman. No grad school or MBA needed; taking that time off would’ve been a massive hit to their career trajectory and life time earnings (forfeiting $300-500K per year to go to school plus $200K spent for an elite MBA). Not worth it.

MBB consulting seems to highly value graduate credentialing. Lawyers and doctors clearly need graduate education. The government and NIH incentivize credentialing to move up the org chart.

So it really depends on what your kid wants to do. But if they want to work in finance, tech, sales, etc? Just go to the best undergrad possible.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/01/29/400000-a-year-rich-feeling-poor/

"The $400K conundrum - Why America's urban rich don't feel that way."

Describes where OP is coming from. These people are trapped.

The comments are even better than the article.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of people on this board myopically insist that undergrad prestige doesn't matter and that their kid can go to an Ivy for grad school. This seems misguided. The top firms only recruit from Ivies and other T20 schools. Going to an HYPSM for undergrad will increase your odds of landing at one of them.

If you go to an elite school and do everything right, you don't even need to go to grad school. The people on here saying that their kids at a state school or some no-name SLAC can "always go to an Ivy for grad school" seem misguided. Not all grad schools pay off. I had a woman in my neighborhood say the same thing -- her daughter went to a selective but not elite SLAC, and her mom insisted that her college education paid off since she's at Columbia for her PhD in History. Ummm.... hello?!!!! A PhD in the humanities is the LAST thing I would want my kid to do.

Ummm getting into Columbia for a PhD in history is pretty impressive.

It is not financially impressive -- I know tons of academics who regret not chasing a more lucrative career. If you're a trust funder though it's pretty nice.

Ah, i see, “financially impressive” is the only thing that counts.

Anonymous wrote:There are many of us who went to no-name undergrads who don't worry about this at all OP because we know MANY successful people who went to our schools.
I went to a tier 3 liberal arts school and I don't know anyone in my friend group who isn't gainfully employed in high-level job, a home owners, able to pay for college, etc. Many own second homes (ourselves included), some are retired early, etc.

For the one millionth time: there are many roads to success. We don't all have to study computer science at a top20 school or face starvation.
I pity your children because your line of thinking is just so royally f-ed up.

This. DH and I went to regional public schools and are perfectly satisfied with our lives. We both work with and are friends with people who went to bigger name schools and somehow we ended up in the same place. Neither of my kids aspires to finance or management consulting so why should their colleges choices be dictated to where those kinds of firms hire? DS is doing an applied math major at a big state U with a huge alumni network I'm sure he'll do fine financially. DD wants to do a science and is going to a mid-tier LAC because 1) they have a fabulous program for her specific interest 2) strong record of students going on to PhDs and all grads who wanted to go straight to work had jobs at graduation 3) she can graduate without debt which will be important because this is not a high paying field. But she will make enough to support herself doing something she loves and, for her, that's the right choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of people on this board myopically insist that undergrad prestige doesn't matter and that their kid can go to an Ivy for grad school. This seems misguided. The top firms only recruit from Ivies and other T20 schools. Going to an HYPSM for undergrad will increase your odds of landing at one of them.

If you go to an elite school and do everything right, you don't even need to go to grad school. The people on here saying that their kids at a state school or some no-name SLAC can "always go to an Ivy for grad school" seem misguided. Not all grad schools pay off. I had a woman in my neighborhood say the same thing -- her daughter went to a selective but not elite SLAC, and her mom insisted that her college education paid off since she's at Columbia for her PhD in History. Ummm.... hello?!!!! A PhD in the humanities is the LAST thing I would want my kid to do.

Different strokes for different folks. Going to an Ivy is no guarantee of anything!

I’m a poster who subscribes to this belief. I did it and our kids in STEM are doing it. It works for some. Not everyone wants to go into investment banking or management consulting, which frankly do nothing to help our world from what I’ve seen.. For us, mental health trumps academic prestige. The kid has to want it, we’re not going to push it. Life is about so much more.

OP here. So you would be okay with your kid going to an Ivy for a PhD in, say, Biology and then end up as a fed scientist? That would be awful. They would have no earning power in their 20s (as they'd be living on a grad student stipend) and they would top out at an income of $180k. How would they afford housing or childcare in their 30s in the DMV?

Life is more than money, I agree. But money is damn important.

I know someone who used to run an art gallery. The business went bankrupt. Nevertheless, the couple sent their kid to MICA. It's not for everyone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of people on this board myopically insist that undergrad prestige doesn't matter and that their kid can go to an Ivy for grad school. This seems misguided. The top firms only recruit from Ivies and other T20 schools. Going to an HYPSM for undergrad will increase your odds of landing at one of them.

If you go to an elite school and do everything right, you don't even need to go to grad school. The people on here saying that their kids at a state school or some no-name SLAC can "always go to an Ivy for grad school" seem misguided. Not all grad schools pay off. I had a woman in my neighborhood say the same thing -- her daughter went to a selective but not elite SLAC, and her mom insisted that her college education paid off since she's at Columbia for her PhD in History. Ummm.... hello?!!!! A PhD in the humanities is the LAST thing I would want my kid to do.

Different strokes for different folks. Going to an Ivy is no guarantee of anything!

I’m a poster who subscribes to this belief. I did it and our kids in STEM are doing it. It works for some. Not everyone wants to go into investment banking or management consulting, which frankly do nothing to help our world from what I’ve seen.. For us, mental health trumps academic prestige. The kid has to want it, we’re not going to push it. Life is about so much more.

OP here. So you would be okay with your kid going to an Ivy for a PhD in, say, Biology and then end up as a fed scientist? That would be awful. They would have no earning power in their 20s (as they'd be living on a grad student stipend) and they would top out at an income of $180k. How would they afford housing or childcare in their 30s in the DMV?

Life is more than money, I agree. But money is damn important.

There is more to life than money and a top scientist at a good agency is nice life. It is interesting work, family friendly and good benefits.

-Double fed family, with an nice house in a good school district in NWDC and can afford to send my kid to college full pay.

I assume you have family money. No way can a HHI of ~$300k afford a nice house in NWDC (unless you bought that house in the 90s) and afford another $300k for college. Again, this is talking about young adults right now -- so Gen X anecdotes shouldn't apply here.

My kid went to a CTCL school and is at MIT doing a PhD. It's working out well for her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of people on this board myopically insist that undergrad prestige doesn't matter and that their kid can go to an Ivy for grad school. This seems misguided. The top firms only recruit from Ivies and other T20 schools. Going to an HYPSM for undergrad will increase your odds of landing at one of them.

If you go to an elite school and do everything right, you don't even need to go to grad school. The people on here saying that their kids at a state school or some no-name SLAC can "always go to an Ivy for grad school" seem misguided. Not all grad schools pay off. I had a woman in my neighborhood say the same thing -- her daughter went to a selective but not elite SLAC, and her mom insisted that her college education paid off since she's at Columbia for her PhD in History. Ummm.... hello?!!!! A PhD in the humanities is the LAST thing I would want my kid to do.

Ummm getting into Columbia for a PhD in history is pretty impressive.

It is not financially impressive -- I know tons of academics who regret not chasing a more lucrative career. If you're a trust funder though it's pretty nice.

Anonymous wrote:There are many of us who went to no-name undergrads who don't worry about this at all OP because we know MANY successful people who went to our schools.
I went to a tier 3 liberal arts school and I don't know anyone in my friend group who isn't gainfully employed in high-level job, a home owners, able to pay for college, etc. Many own second homes (ourselves included), some are retired early, etc.

For the one millionth time: there are many roads to success. We don't all have to study computer science at a top20 school or face starvation.
I pity your children because your line of thinking is just so royally f-ed up.

Life at a "top firm" is surely the road to happiness

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of people on this board myopically insist that undergrad prestige doesn't matter and that their kid can go to an Ivy for grad school. This seems misguided. The top firms only recruit from Ivies and other T20 schools. Going to an HYPSM for undergrad will increase your odds of landing at one of them.

If you go to an elite school and do everything right, you don't even need to go to grad school. The people on here saying that their kids at a state school or some no-name SLAC can "always go to an Ivy for grad school" seem misguided. Not all grad schools pay off. I had a woman in my neighborhood say the same thing -- her daughter went to a selective but not elite SLAC, and her mom insisted that her college education paid off since she's at Columbia for her PhD in History. Ummm.... hello?!!!! A PhD in the humanities is the LAST thing I would want my kid to do.

LOL. Do you think that all children at elite schools want to get jobs at "top firms"? I would imagine that many of them go on to get PhDs, too.

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of people on this board myopically insist that undergrad prestige doesn't matter and that their kid can go to an Ivy for grad school. This seems misguided. The top firms only recruit from Ivies and other T20 schools. Going to an HYPSM for undergrad will increase your odds of landing at one of them.

If you go to an elite school and do everything right, you don't even need to go to grad school. The people on here saying that their kids at a state school or some no-name SLAC can "always go to an Ivy for grad school" seem misguided. Not all grad schools pay off. I had a woman in my neighborhood say the same thing -- her daughter went to a selective but not elite SLAC, and her mom insisted that her college education paid off since she's at Columbia for her PhD in History. Ummm.... hello?!!!! A PhD in the humanities is the LAST thing I would want my kid to do.

what's your point?

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of people on this board myopically insist that undergrad prestige doesn't matter and that their kid can go to an Ivy for grad school. This seems misguided. The top firms only recruit from Ivies and other T20 schools. Going to an HYPSM for undergrad will increase your odds of landing at one of them.

If you go to an elite school and do everything right, you don't even need to go to grad school. The people on here saying that their kids at a state school or some no-name SLAC can "always go to an Ivy for grad school" seem misguided. Not all grad schools pay off. I had a woman in my neighborhood say the same thing -- her daughter went to a selective but not elite SLAC, and her mom insisted that her college education paid off since she's at Columbia for her PhD in History. Ummm.... hello?!!!! A PhD in the humanities is the LAST thing I would want my kid to do.

Ummm getting into Columbia for a PhD in history is pretty impressive.

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of people on this board myopically insist that undergrad prestige doesn't matter and that their kid can go to an Ivy for grad school. This seems misguided. The top firms only recruit from Ivies and other T20 schools. Going to an HYPSM for undergrad will increase your odds of landing at one of them.

If you go to an elite school and do everything right, you don't even need to go to grad school. The people on here saying that their kids at a state school or some no-name SLAC can "always go to an Ivy for grad school" seem misguided. Not all grad schools pay off. I had a woman in my neighborhood say the same thing -- her daughter went to a selective but not elite SLAC, and her mom insisted that her college education paid off since she's at Columbia for her PhD in History. Ummm.... hello?!!!! A PhD in the humanities is the LAST thing I would want my kid to do.

Finance is the last thing I would want my kid to do.
So, to each his own.

If you want to be a scientist, you need to go to grad school, period.
(And RO1 schools are most desirable for that, not “Ivies.”
Your perspective seems extremely limited.

There are many of us who went to no-name undergrads who don't worry about this at all OP because we know MANY successful people who went to our schools.
I went to a tier 3 liberal arts school and I don't know anyone in my friend group who isn't gainfully employed in high-level job, a home owners, able to pay for college, etc. Many own second homes (ourselves included), some are retired early, etc.

For the one millionth time: there are many roads to success. We don't all have to study computer science at a top20 school or face starvation.
I pity your children because your line of thinking is just so royally f-ed up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends on the major and end goal.

Grad school is much easier to get in.

Only stupid people would pay a lot of money for grad school

No, it is not.

Yes, it is.