Anonymous
01/26/2023 16:14
Subject: Mix honors and regular kids in the same classroom
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This has been happening in ES and MS for years. Now, MCPS is extending the same concept to HS.
Our MS only offers one English class - Advanced English. It is a mix of kids who are very proficient and some kids who are ESOL and kids who are at grade level.
MCPS doesn’t support differentiation because it is not Equitable.
Unfortunately, this system helps nobody. The kids who are below level just struggle, even with ‘supports’ in place and often end up being disruptive because they’re not engaged in learning. And the kids who are above grade level get bored and disengage.
So they're achieving equity by dumbing everyone down to the least common denominator?
That's not good since most on-level classes today seem remedial and honors was more like average.
And with honors courses being "scored" the same way at AP courses, the weighted GPAs of students today feels really inflated.
+1 another way to close the achievement gap, even if it's superficial.
Don't worry colleges ignore that weighting and use their own.
It's not about colleges. It's purely about MCPS stats. They want to make sure that in MCPS, certain groups look like they are doing better than they are.
Anonymous
01/26/2023 16:14
Subject: Mix honors and regular kids in the same classroom
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This has been happening in ES and MS for years. Now, MCPS is extending the same concept to HS.
Our MS only offers one English class - Advanced English. It is a mix of kids who are very proficient and some kids who are ESOL and kids who are at grade level.
MCPS doesn’t support differentiation because it is not Equitable.
Unfortunately, this system helps nobody. The kids who are below level just struggle, even with ‘supports’ in place and often end up being disruptive because they’re not engaged in learning. And the kids who are above grade level get bored and disengage.
So they're achieving equity by dumbing everyone down to the least common denominator?
That's not good since most on-level classes today seem remedial and honors was more like average.
And with honors courses being "scored" the same way at AP courses, the weighted GPAs of students today feels really inflated.
This thread is not about honors for all. It's about putting the kids that signed up for honors and those that signed up for the on level class, physically in the same classroom.
+1 another way to close the achievement gap, even if it's superficial.
Don't worry colleges ignore that weighting and use their own.
They do? I was told colleges care more about weighted GPA than unweighted, which would make sense why MCPS is looking to inflate the WGPA with an "Honors for all" approach.
This thread is not about honors for all. It's about putting the kids that signed up for honors and those that signed up for the on level class, physically in the same classroom.
Anonymous
01/26/2023 16:12
Subject: Mix honors and regular kids in the same classroom
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This has been happening in ES and MS for years. Now, MCPS is extending the same concept to HS.
Our MS only offers one English class - Advanced English. It is a mix of kids who are very proficient and some kids who are ESOL and kids who are at grade level.
MCPS doesn’t support differentiation because it is not Equitable.
Unfortunately, this system helps nobody. The kids who are below level just struggle, even with ‘supports’ in place and often end up being disruptive because they’re not engaged in learning. And the kids who are above grade level get bored and disengage.
So they're achieving equity by dumbing everyone down to the least common denominator?
That's not good since most on-level classes today seem remedial and honors was more like average.
And with honors courses being "scored" the same way at AP courses, the weighted GPAs of students today feels really inflated.
This thread is not about honors for all. It's about putting the kids that signed up for honors and those that signed up for the on level class, physically in the same classroom.
+1 another way to close the achievement gap, even if it's superficial.
Don't worry colleges ignore that weighting and use their own.
They do? I was told colleges care more about weighted GPA than unweighted, which would make sense why MCPS is looking to inflate the WGPA with an "Honors for all" approach.
Anonymous
01/26/2023 15:42
Subject: Mix honors and regular kids in the same classroom
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This has been happening in ES and MS for years. Now, MCPS is extending the same concept to HS.
Our MS only offers one English class - Advanced English. It is a mix of kids who are very proficient and some kids who are ESOL and kids who are at grade level.
MCPS doesn’t support differentiation because it is not Equitable.
Unfortunately, this system helps nobody. The kids who are below level just struggle, even with ‘supports’ in place and often end up being disruptive because they’re not engaged in learning. And the kids who are above grade level get bored and disengage.
So they're achieving equity by dumbing everyone down to the least common denominator?
That's not good since most on-level classes today seem remedial and honors was more like average.
And with honors courses being "scored" the same way at AP courses, the weighted GPAs of students today feels really inflated.
+1 another way to close the achievement gap, even if it's superficial.
Don't worry colleges ignore that weighting and use their own.
They do? I was told colleges care more about weighted GPA than unweighted, which would make sense why MCPS is looking to inflate the WGPA with an "Honors for all" approach.
Anonymous
01/26/2023 15:41
Subject: Mix honors and regular kids in the same classroom
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This has been happening in ES and MS for years. Now, MCPS is extending the same concept to HS.
Our MS only offers one English class - Advanced English. It is a mix of kids who are very proficient and some kids who are ESOL and kids who are at grade level.
MCPS doesn’t support differentiation because it is not Equitable.
Unfortunately, this system helps nobody. The kids who are below level just struggle, even with ‘supports’ in place and often end up being disruptive because they’re not engaged in learning. And the kids who are above grade level get bored and disengage.
So they're achieving equity by dumbing everyone down to the least common denominator?
That's not good since most on-level classes today seem remedial and honors was more like average.
And with honors courses being "scored" the same way at AP courses, the weighted GPAs of students today feels really inflated.
They do? I was told colleges care more about weighted GPA than unweighted, which would make sense why MCPS is looking to inflate the WGPA with an "Honors for all" approach.
+1 another way to close the achievement gap, even if it's superficial.
Don't worry colleges ignore that weighting and use their own.
Anonymous
01/26/2023 15:39
Subject: Mix honors and regular kids in the same classroom
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:On another thread, someone mentioned a BCC high school class that teaches the honors class kids and the regular class kids in the same classroom. Is this just happening at BCC?
You or any parent in any school system can not be this dumb.
Of course their are kids who are not honors in honors classes all over the country it is not unique to MCPS
Parents push for little Johnny or Susie to be in those classes whether it is appropriate or not.
I once sat next to someone at a lax game big private and the parents were so upset little Johnny was failing Math. His parents screamed at the counselor and principal that "he is bored being in regular math so it's the school's fault" they even wanted the grade changed...
Yep from 1st grade on this is a parent issue not a school issue.
You are missing the point here. This thread is talking about MCPS's practice of scheduling two different classes--one on-level and one honors--in the same classroom with the same teacher at the same time. So, some kids in the room will have schedules saying Biology and other kids in the room will have schedules saying Honors Biology. But the teacher is teaching all of them together.
That's wonderful and so much more efficient!
Anonymous
01/26/2023 15:37
Subject: Mix honors and regular kids in the same classroom
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This has been happening in ES and MS for years. Now, MCPS is extending the same concept to HS.
Our MS only offers one English class - Advanced English. It is a mix of kids who are very proficient and some kids who are ESOL and kids who are at grade level.
MCPS doesn’t support differentiation because it is not Equitable.
Unfortunately, this system helps nobody. The kids who are below level just struggle, even with ‘supports’ in place and often end up being disruptive because they’re not engaged in learning. And the kids who are above grade level get bored and disengage.
So they're achieving equity by dumbing everyone down to the least common denominator?
That's not good since most on-level classes today seem remedial and honors was more like average.
And with honors courses being "scored" the same way at AP courses, the weighted GPAs of students today feels really inflated.
+1 another way to close the achievement gap, even if it's superficial.
Don't worry colleges ignore that weighting and use their own.
Anonymous
01/26/2023 15:27
Subject: Mix honors and regular kids in the same classroom
[quote=Anonymous]It’s so tough. I know a teacher who said he used to be able to tell which class was honors and which was on level just by glancing in the door. Black and brown? On level. More than a few white kids? Honors. This is in a diverse MCPS high school. The on level classes were ROUGH to teach- lots of behavior issues. Now there is this weird mix, but I do think it’s more equitable. I am not a POC but I can only imagine how that would feel seeing that every day. We have to do better in terms of leveling the playing field. I don’t know how else we can do it. This is a start, anyway. [/quote]
How about we start our kids in elementary with a rigorous, content rich curriculum? Use explicit phonics instruction to teach reading. Make sure kids have a mastery of math concepts and have memorized their basic facts. Teach grammar, spelling, history, geography, and science. In my experience, well-educated parents (which correlates with SES and racial demographics), recognize curriculum deficiencies and compensate, either at home or with a tutoring service. It’s long been my contention that MCPS’s reputation as “one of the best school systems in the nation” is actually due to having one of the best-educated populations in the nation, and whatever high stats we have are in spite of the system, rather than a tribute to its success.
I do think MCPS has some fabulous opportunities. These opportunities, however, are insufficient for the number of students who could benefit from them. Moreover, students without adequate preparation aren’t ready for these opportunities when they arise. Instead of limiting the opportunities, or diluting them so that we can feel proud that everyone is in a class with a prestigious name (regardless of actual content), we need to focus on preparing our kids for any choices they may want to make, and make sure they can choose any educational challenge they want.
It’s been hard to keep track of MCPS’s curriculum changes, but I think they’re moving towards a greater emphasis on phonics and expanding their immersion programs. These seem like significant positive steps. I hope they continue to focus on strengthening the subject content provided. THAT would be a start.
Education isn’t a competition. It’s not a scarce resource to be rationed. Nor is it window dressing to make everyone feel good about ourselves. It is our future. Let’s give these kids the foundation they need to build their futures so that they can build a future for our community.
How about we start our kids in elementary with a rigorous, content rich curriculum? Use explicit phonics instruction to teach reading. Make sure kids have a mastery of math concepts and have memorized their basic facts. Teach grammar, spelling, history, geography, and science. In my experience, well-educated parents (which correlates with SES and racial demographics), recognize curriculum deficiencies and compensate, either at home or with a tutoring service. It’s long been my contention that MCPS’s reputation as “one of the best school systems in the nation” is actually due to having one of the best-educated populations in the nation, and whatever high stats we have are in spite of the system, rather than a tribute to its success.
I do think MCPS has some fabulous opportunities. These opportunities, however, are insufficient for the number of students who could benefit from them. Moreover, students without adequate preparation aren’t ready for these opportunities when they arise. Instead of limiting the opportunities, or diluting them so that we can feel proud that everyone is in a class with a prestigious name (regardless of actual content), we need to focus on preparing our kids for any choices they may want to make, and make sure they can choose any educational challenge they want.
It’s been hard to keep track of MCPS’s curriculum changes, but I think they’re moving towards a greater emphasis on phonics and expanding their immersion programs. These seem like significant positive steps. I hope they continue to focus on strengthening the subject content provided. THAT would be a start.
Education isn’t a competition. It’s not a scarce resource to be rationed. Nor is it window dressing to make everyone feel good about ourselves. It is our future. Let’s give these kids the foundation they need to build their futures so that they can build a future for our community.
Anonymous
01/26/2023 15:11
Subject: Mix honors and regular kids in the same classroom
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:On another thread, someone mentioned a BCC high school class that teaches the honors class kids and the regular class kids in the same classroom. Is this just happening at BCC?
You or any parent in any school system can not be this dumb.
Of course their are kids who are not honors in honors classes all over the country it is not unique to MCPS
Parents push for little Johnny or Susie to be in those classes whether it is appropriate or not.
I once sat next to someone at a lax game big private and the parents were so upset little Johnny was failing Math. His parents screamed at the counselor and principal that "he is bored being in regular math so it's the school's fault" they even wanted the grade changed...
Yep from 1st grade on this is a parent issue not a school issue.
Wrong topic, go back to sleep.
Anonymous
01/26/2023 15:10
Subject: Mix honors and regular kids in the same classroom
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:On another thread, someone mentioned a BCC high school class that teaches the honors class kids and the regular class kids in the same classroom. Is this just happening at BCC?
You or any parent in any school system can not be this dumb.
Of course their are kids who are not honors in honors classes all over the country it is not unique to MCPS
Parents push for little Johnny or Susie to be in those classes whether it is appropriate or not.
I once sat next to someone at a lax game big private and the parents were so upset little Johnny was failing Math. His parents screamed at the counselor and principal that "he is bored being in regular math so it's the school's fault" they even wanted the grade changed...
Yep from 1st grade on this is a parent issue not a school issue.
You are missing the point here. This thread is talking about MCPS's practice of scheduling two different classes--one on-level and one honors--in the same classroom with the same teacher at the same time. So, some kids in the room will have schedules saying Biology and other kids in the room will have schedules saying Honors Biology. But the teacher is teaching all of them together.
Anonymous
01/26/2023 15:03
Subject: Mix honors and regular kids in the same classroom
Anonymous wrote:On another thread, someone mentioned a BCC high school class that teaches the honors class kids and the regular class kids in the same classroom. Is this just happening at BCC?
You or any parent in any school system can not be this dumb.
Of course their are kids who are not honors in honors classes all over the country it is not unique to MCPS
Parents push for little Johnny or Susie to be in those classes whether it is appropriate or not.
I once sat next to someone at a lax game big private and the parents were so upset little Johnny was failing Math. His parents screamed at the counselor and principal that "he is bored being in regular math so it's the school's fault" they even wanted the grade changed...
Yep from 1st grade on this is a parent issue not a school issue.
Anonymous
01/26/2023 15:01
Subject: Mix honors and regular kids in the same classroom
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:MCPS keeps this on the down low for sure.
I do have several kids in MCPS high schools and I don’t love the fact that they don’t get to move as quickly as they might in a “real” Honors class, but they will survive, and I’m glad that MCPS is at least trying something. Because the achievement gap is shameful.
Anyway, it’s in 11th grade that the split happens- the on level kids stay in Honors Whatever 11 and the others head off to AP classes.
So maybe the mixing in 9th and 10th is good- nobody should be tracked as low achieving/likely not to succeed already at age 14! That’s horrible. Especially if historically the tracking system was racist, or at least perpetuated racism.
Someone that takes on level classes are not likely to succeed? WTF
Were kids from different racial or ethic groups not allowed to take honors coursed in the past? Really?
Of course they were. I'm a POC and like I said, teachers noticed my talent and recommended me for the Honors classes and I rose to the occasion. I was challenged but I was as capable as the teachers who recommended me thought I was.
Anonymous
01/26/2023 15:00
Subject: Mix honors and regular kids in the same classroom
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This has been happening in ES and MS for years. Now, MCPS is extending the same concept to HS.
Our MS only offers one English class - Advanced English. It is a mix of kids who are very proficient and some kids who are ESOL and kids who are at grade level.
MCPS doesn’t support differentiation because it is not Equitable.
Unfortunately, this system helps nobody. The kids who are below level just struggle, even with ‘supports’ in place and often end up being disruptive because they’re not engaged in learning. And the kids who are above grade level get bored and disengage.
So they're achieving equity by dumbing everyone down to the least common denominator?
That's not good since most on-level classes today seem remedial and honors was more like average.
And with honors courses being "scored" the same way at AP courses, the weighted GPAs of students today feels really inflated.
They are inflated.
Anonymous
01/26/2023 14:58
Subject: Mix honors and regular kids in the same classroom
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This has been happening in ES and MS for years. Now, MCPS is extending the same concept to HS.
Our MS only offers one English class - Advanced English. It is a mix of kids who are very proficient and some kids who are ESOL and kids who are at grade level.
MCPS doesn’t support differentiation because it is not Equitable.
Unfortunately, this system helps nobody. The kids who are below level just struggle, even with ‘supports’ in place and often end up being disruptive because they’re not engaged in learning. And the kids who are above grade level get bored and disengage.
So they're achieving equity by dumbing everyone down to the least common denominator?
That's not good since most on-level classes today seem remedial and honors was more like average.
And with honors courses being "scored" the same way at AP courses, the weighted GPAs of students today feels really inflated.
+1 another way to close the achievement gap, even if it's superficial.
Anonymous
01/26/2023 14:57
Subject: Mix honors and regular kids in the same classroom
Anonymous wrote:MCPS keeps this on the down low for sure.
I do have several kids in MCPS high schools and I don’t love the fact that they don’t get to move as quickly as they might in a “real” Honors class, but they will survive, and I’m glad that MCPS is at least trying something. Because the achievement gap is shameful.
Anyway, it’s in 11th grade that the split happens- the on level kids stay in Honors Whatever 11 and the others head off to AP classes.
So maybe the mixing in 9th and 10th is good- nobody should be tracked as low achieving/likely not to succeed already at age 14! That’s horrible. Especially if historically the tracking system was racist, or at least perpetuated racism.
Someone that takes on level classes are not likely to succeed? WTF
Were kids from different racial or ethic groups not allowed to take honors coursed in the past? Really?