Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent from a foreign background, this article resonated with me. I feel lost here and feel like I no longer fit in.

https://www.slowboring.com/p/who-is-included-by-inclusive-language

You fit in like we do, also a foreign couple who used to live in DC:

Move to Florida! The whole coast from Miami to Delray Beach is awesome, beautiful, cosmopolitan...and sane.

Plenty of great schools too around Boca Raton, both public and private.

Give it a thought

It is among the most corrupt states in the country. No thanks.

Anonymous wrote:Did any of you actually read the article? It’s less about how private schools are too woke (although he may very well think they are) and more about DEI is the latest phase in how elite institutions set the tone for what is considered “elite” in a classist sort of way. He compares it to all the black tie events at Harvard, which forced him to learn to tie a bow tie, which he would not have otherwise done. Its an interesting article, but its not really about what the subject suggests.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there actually some “fancy pants private school” policy or event that people want to debate about as being “too woke?” People already have claws out and hurling insults, but it’s already getting boring because there is no defined topic of debate.

Fair point, but I actually think this thread (so far) has been less insult-hurling than might be expected. Maybe a few things were unnecessary (e.g. the FoxNews thing, the thing about Matt Yglesias, and the unnecessarily patronizing use of the word "adorable" [which I immediately regretted]). I do think identifying specific, objective things that have actually happened at a school (not just a fear that something might happen) would move the conversation forward.

OP identified the academic freedom crisis at Hamline, but that's a college situation, not a K-12. And, to be fair, most of those in the academic world (who otherwise overwhelmingly tend to support DEI) agree that the administration made a terrible decision. This was a case of an administration implementing a customer-service model of problem-solving (not upsetting the paying student-customers is the most important criterion in decision-making) rather than truly trying to implement DEI values. A student complained, and that panicked the administration, lest the school be regarded as intolerant. That's not a smart or nuanced approached to an issue of academic freedom.

What has *actually happened* at your area K-12 that has people genuinely concerned that "wokeness" has gone too far. And please no vague nonsense about making kids feel guilty about being white or whatnot. An actual, specific incident, lesson, event, or policy implementation that caused your concern.

OP here. Your critique is valid. I'm not talking about a specific incident but the overall direction that American culture is going in. What happens in universities is relevant because it trickles down to private schools and to the culture in general. I mentioned Hamline University because it was recent. Another story I thought was crazy was some student in a university accusing a janitor of being racist and then the janitor being fired - I think it was pre covid so forgetting the exact story. The class dynamic was insane there.

I don't have any specific examples over what is happening in k-12 schools - though I do recall reading some article on Dalton in NYC? I can't find it though. It's just the general sense I have that this country is going in the wrong direction. I am thinking of pulling my kids out and just going with a regular old public school. The same BS is there too but at least its free! Plus at the very least there is less hypocrisy.

FWIW, I think it's a good idea to hold off on making any enrollment decisions until I could identify my specific concerns and also identify the evidence that I have that those concerns are valid. In my experience, often feelings that things are moving in the wrong direction aren't based on facts. I get it, we all have those feelings (and I am in 100% agreement with on the class stuff, although I'd have to do some research to discover whether area schools actually neglect this topic to the degree I fear they do) but that's why I think it is important to require (of myself) actual evidence to support my sense before acting on them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent from a foreign background, this article resonated with me. I feel lost here and feel like I no longer fit in.

https://www.slowboring.com/p/who-is-included-by-inclusive-language

You fit in like we do, also a foreign couple who used to live in DC:

Move to Florida! The whole coast from Miami to Delray Beach is awesome, beautiful, cosmopolitan...and sane.

Plenty of great schools too around Boca Raton, both public and private.

Give it a thought

It is among the most corrupt states in the country. No thanks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent from a foreign background, this article resonated with me. I feel lost here and feel like I no longer fit in.

https://www.slowboring.com/p/who-is-included-by-inclusive-language

You fit in like we do, also a foreign couple who used to live in DC:

Move to Florida! The whole coast from Miami to Delray Beach is awesome, beautiful, cosmopolitan...and sane.

Plenty of great schools too around Boca Raton, both public and private.

Give it a thought

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there actually some “fancy pants private school” policy or event that people want to debate about as being “too woke?” People already have claws out and hurling insults, but it’s already getting boring because there is no defined topic of debate.

Fair point, but I actually think this thread (so far) has been less insult-hurling than might be expected. Maybe a few things were unnecessary (e.g. the FoxNews thing, the thing about Matt Yglesias, and the unnecessarily patronizing use of the word "adorable" [which I immediately regretted]). I do think identifying specific, objective things that have actually happened at a school (not just a fear that something might happen) would move the conversation forward.

OP identified the academic freedom crisis at Hamline, but that's a college situation, not a K-12. And, to be fair, most of those in the academic world (who otherwise overwhelmingly tend to support DEI) agree that the administration made a terrible decision. This was a case of an administration implementing a customer-service model of problem-solving (not upsetting the paying student-customers is the most important criterion in decision-making) rather than truly trying to implement DEI values. A student complained, and that panicked the administration, lest the school be regarded as intolerant. That's not a smart or nuanced approached to an issue of academic freedom.

What has *actually happened* at your area K-12 that has people genuinely concerned that "wokeness" has gone too far. And please no vague nonsense about making kids feel guilty about being white or whatnot. An actual, specific incident, lesson, event, or policy implementation that caused your concern.

OP here. Your critique is valid. I'm not talking about a specific incident but the overall direction that American culture is going in. What happens in universities is relevant because it trickles down to private schools and to the culture in general. I mentioned Hamline University because it was recent. Another story I thought was crazy was some student in a university accusing a janitor of being racist and then the janitor being fired - I think it was pre covid so forgetting the exact story. The class dynamic was insane there.

I don't have any specific examples over what is happening in k-12 schools - though I do recall reading some article on Dalton in NYC? I can't find it though. It's just the general sense I have that this country is going in the wrong direction. I am thinking of pulling my kids out and just going with a regular old public school. The same BS is there too but at least its free! Plus at the very least there is less hypocrisy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent from a foreign background, this article resonated with me. I feel lost here and feel like I no longer fit in.

https://www.slowboring.com/p/who-is-included-by-inclusive-language

You fit in like we do, also a foreign couple who used to live in DC:

Move to Florida! The whole coast from Miami to Delray Beach is awesome, beautiful, cosmopolitan...and sane.

Plenty of great schools too around Boca Raton, both public and private.

Give it a thought

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I believe in diversity and equity. The way it is pushed these days is more like a religion where other opinions are not allowed (look at the Hamline University debacle.. I am muslim and every muslim I know thinks what happens is insane). I am a person who is an admirer of Edward Said's book Orientalism as well as the People's History of the United States. I am Arab so am staunchly anti-imperialist. But I think schools have gone overboard. Also there is very little critique of class. I get it - they are private schools. But it is hypocritical to be pushing all of this and ignore the class aspect.

My kids are young - Kindergarten and first grade so they haven't been exposed to a lot of this yet. But I am worried that there is some indoctrination going on.

There is no indoctrination going on or is it treated as a religion. You sound like FOX news.

+1

These schools are trying to provide a welcoming learning environment for all comers, not just the children of the rich/elite. The use of the term "woke" is really a tell in terms of where the OP is coming from.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there actually some “fancy pants private school” policy or event that people want to debate about as being “too woke?” People already have claws out and hurling insults, but it’s already getting boring because there is no defined topic of debate.

Fair point, but I actually think this thread (so far) has been less insult-hurling than might be expected. Maybe a few things were unnecessary (e.g. the FoxNews thing, the thing about Matt Yglesias, and the unnecessarily patronizing use of the word "adorable" [which I immediately regretted]). I do think identifying specific, objective things that have actually happened at a school (not just a fear that something might happen) would move the conversation forward.

OP identified the academic freedom crisis at Hamline, but that's a college situation, not a K-12. And, to be fair, most of those in the academic world (who otherwise overwhelmingly tend to support DEI) agree that the administration made a terrible decision. This was a case of an administration implementing a customer-service model of problem-solving (not upsetting the paying student-customers is the most important criterion in decision-making) rather than truly trying to implement DEI values. A student complained, and that panicked the administration, lest the school be regarded as intolerant. That's not a smart or nuanced approached to an issue of academic freedom.

What has *actually happened* at your area K-12 that has people genuinely concerned that "wokeness" has gone too far. And please no vague nonsense about making kids feel guilty about being white or whatnot. An actual, specific incident, lesson, event, or policy implementation that caused your concern.

OP here. Your critique is valid. I'm not talking about a specific incident but the overall direction that American culture is going in. What happens in universities is relevant because it trickles down to private schools and to the culture in general. I mentioned Hamline University because it was recent. Another story I thought was crazy was some student in a university accusing a janitor of being racist and then the janitor being fired - I think it was pre covid so forgetting the exact story. The class dynamic was insane there.

I don't have any specific examples over what is happening in k-12 schools - though I do recall reading some article on Dalton in NYC? I can't find it though. It's just the general sense I have that this country is going in the wrong direction. I am thinking of pulling my kids out and just going with a regular old public school. The same BS is there too but at least its free! Plus at the very least there is less hypocrisy.

Anonymous wrote:As a parent from a foreign background, this article resonated with me. I feel lost here and feel like I no longer fit in.

https://www.slowboring.com/p/who-is-included-by-inclusive-language

Anonymous wrote:As a parent from a foreign background, this article resonated with me. I feel lost here and feel like I no longer fit in.

https://www.slowboring.com/p/who-is-included-by-inclusive-language

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I believe in diversity and equity. The way it is pushed these days is more like a religion where other opinions are not allowed (look at the Hamline University debacle.. I am muslim and every muslim I know thinks what happens is insane). I am a person who is an admirer of Edward Said's book Orientalism as well as the People's History of the United States. I am Arab so am staunchly anti-imperialist. But I think schools have gone overboard. Also there is very little critique of class. I get it - they are private schools. But it is hypocritical to be pushing all of this and ignore the class aspect.

My kids are young - Kindergarten and first grade so they haven't been exposed to a lot of this yet. But I am worried that there is some indoctrination going on.

Harsh question: Why should someone who claims to be “from a foreign background “ and from a religion that hardly represents a common viewpoint in the US expect to “fit in” — or even want to “fit in”? Surely you must realize that it’s the culture and values behind what you deem “wokeness” that has given you and your kids not just the chance of fitting in, but of being accepted at all by schools and universities that, not too long ago, we’re almost exclusively white, male, American, and, in many cases aggressively Christian?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I believe in diversity and equity. The way it is pushed these days is more like a religion where other opinions are not allowed (look at the Hamline University debacle.. I am muslim and every muslim I know thinks what happens is insane). I am a person who is an admirer of Edward Said's book Orientalism as well as the People's History of the United States. I am Arab so am staunchly anti-imperialist. But I think schools have gone overboard. Also there is very little critique of class. I get it - they are private schools. But it is hypocritical to be pushing all of this and ignore the class aspect.

My kids are young - Kindergarten and first grade so they haven't been exposed to a lot of this yet. But I am worried that there is some indoctrination going on.

Harsh question: Why should someone who claims to be “from a foreign background “ and from a religion that hardly represents a common viewpoint in the US expect to “fit in” — or even want to “fit in”? Surely you must realize that it’s the culture and values behind what you deem “wokeness” that has given you and your kids not just the chance of fitting in, but of being accepted at all by schools and universities that, not too long ago, we’re almost exclusively white, male, American, and, in many cases aggressively Christian?

The phenomenon of dividing and atomizing people (voters) into smaller and smaller categories certainly isn't unique to the progressive left. As a political strategy it was pioneered by Karl Rove in the 80s and 90s as a way to increase GOP voter loyalty and tribal identity. "Pro-life" v. "Pro-choice" wasn't an important political or identity characteristic before Rove understood its divisive power. Now it is so tribal that it is on the precipice of causing a schism in the American Catholic Church. Families and communities are divided into tribal political categories now, and the DEI controversy is (mostly) an proxy war for that same "us v. them" political strategy that Rove masterminded.

OP again. Yes my kids will never fit in. My problem with woke progressives is they like speaking for us non-white people. They speak over us. They do not listen to us. It's still Western imperialism but of a different kind. There is a balance between the extreme agenda of woke progressives and that of conservatives. Neither of these extremes represent me. Also what I can't stand about this new left is how they completely ignore class and focus on dividing people into smaller and smaller groups so that no mass solidarity can ever exist. I'm not a fan of Huntington but I agree with the criticism of progressive ideology that I read in this article: https://www.firstthings.com/article/2023/01/why-china-loves-conservatives

"Progressive liberal ideology seeks to downplay cultural wholes. It envisions the world in universal, globalist terms, while reducing national ­societies to collections of atomized individuals. In its advanced form as identity politics, this version of liberalism views individuals as members of intersecting identity categories—categories that are not real communities and cultures, but rather demographic abstractions such as “Asian American” and “LGBTQIA+.” The word “community” may be added to such abstractions—as in “LGBTQIA+­ ­community”—but it is empty, for none of the identity-­politics categories are concrete communities with shared cultural lives. Indeed, the pseudo-­solidarity of identity politics further atomizes the individual by undermining the legitimacy of inherited cultures. This outcome is not accidental. Progressive liberals seek to weaken the hold of larger cultural collectives by erasing them from their accounts of the social world, accounts they disseminate using their dominance in the West’s humanities and social science departments."

I don't care much about cultural collectives but the continuous focus on specific identity categories undermines solidarity amongst different identity groups which is necessary if we want to effectuate change.