Anonymous
01/17/2023 15:07
Subject: Question for those opposed to legacy status
Anonymous wrote:I see what seems like a lot of posts from people strongly opposed to “legacy admissions” and I’m curious about this position. I agree that unqualified applicants should not be admitted to any schools. Do you assume that no legacy applicants are qualified for admission to the school their parent attended? That seems odd to me given how important parental expectations are for success in school and life.
Do you mean that no kids should be permitted to apply to the schools their parents attended? How would it even work, when the common app asks for parental information (and that appears to be the basis for first generation applicants)? And how is it different from school that look at demonstrated interest? Why should legacy kids’ interest in attending the school they are familiar with, have a personal/family connection to, and likely grew up knowing about, visiting, rooting for its sports teams, etc not be allowed to follow that interest?
Genuinely curious, I promise.
I only see the point in Legacy or Development when compared to something like Dean's List which is open to political hacking to favor kids whose families have done nothing to support the school.
Abolish Dean's List first, and then let's discuss Legacy.
Anonymous
01/17/2023 15:02
Subject: Question for those opposed to legacy status
Of course anyone should be able to apply, but whether their parents attended/donate a ton of money/built a research lab should have NO bearing on the admissions process.
I know of a prominent DC family whose THREE sons got into Harvard. (Grandpa was a former cabinet secretary and they were legacy.) While I’m sure the boys are all talented and smart, would they have gotten in without the family name/legacy status? Unlikely.
Legacy gives a leg up to kids who already have a leg up. That’s why I’m opposed.
I know of a prominent DC family whose THREE sons got into Harvard. (Grandpa was a former cabinet secretary and they were legacy.) While I’m sure the boys are all talented and smart, would they have gotten in without the family name/legacy status? Unlikely.
Legacy gives a leg up to kids who already have a leg up. That’s why I’m opposed.
Anonymous
01/17/2023 15:00
Subject: Question for those opposed to legacy status
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I see what seems like a lot of posts from people strongly opposed to “legacy admissions” and I’m curious about this position. I agree that unqualified applicants should not be admitted to any schools. Do you assume that no legacy applicants are qualified for admission to the school their parent attended? That seems odd to me given how important parental expectations are for success in school and life.
Do you mean that no kids should be permitted to apply to the schools their parents attended? How would it even work, when the common app asks for parental information (and that appears to be the basis for first generation applicants)? And how is it different from school that look at demonstrated interest? Why should legacy kids’ interest in attending the school they are familiar with, have a personal/family connection to, and likely grew up knowing about, visiting, rooting for its sports teams, etc not be allowed to follow that interest?
Genuinely curious, I promise.
Not rocket science. Simply ignore legacy status, focus on merit 100%.
Candidate deserves it? Gets in.
Doesn't deserve it? Doesn't get in.
Who your parents are should be irrelevant.
Except ... you're using terms like "deserve it." How do you determine who "deserves it?"
What do you do when you have 500 spots and there are 10,000 qualified applicants?
That's when these other criteria become valid, including legacy, affirmative action, etc. Schools build cohorts and communities. They aren't some reward for high achievement.
I'm not PP. But I'd rephrase this as saying, determine the application and admits the students you want to have in the class based on their application - NOT including legacy status.
Anonymous
01/17/2023 14:58
Subject: Question for those opposed to legacy status
Anonymous wrote:I see what seems like a lot of posts from people strongly opposed to “legacy admissions” and I’m curious about this position. I agree that unqualified applicants should not be admitted to any schools. Do you assume that no legacy applicants are qualified for admission to the school their parent attended? That seems odd to me given how important parental expectations are for success in school and life.
Do you mean that no kids should be permitted to apply to the schools their parents attended? How would it even work, when the common app asks for parental information (and that appears to be the basis for first generation applicants)? And how is it different from school that look at demonstrated interest? Why should legacy kids’ interest in attending the school they are familiar with, have a personal/family connection to, and likely grew up knowing about, visiting, rooting for its sports teams, etc not be allowed to follow that interest?
Genuinely curious, I promise.
There is one way to show legacy - through family attendance. There are multiple ways to show demonstrated interest (an in-person visit is not required) that are accessible to most applicants. I don't think you are genuinely curious, despite your promise.
Anonymous
01/17/2023 14:58
Subject: Re:Question for those opposed to legacy status
Anonymous wrote:I have zero issue with kids applying to schools their parents went to, and totally get why some kids might be interested in doing this for a variety of reasons.
I think universities giving heavy preference to legacy applicants over non-legacy applicants has a negative social impact when it comes to admissions to elite schools. The reason why is that an education at an elite institution can be transformative for people, and has the most potential to transform the lives of people who do not currently have connections to elite academia. The more legacy admits to these schools, the more it consolidates the benefits of these schools in families that already have these benefits. I'm not saying they aren't doing something good with them, but for every legacy admit, that's one non-legacy applicant who is rejected. I think we lose something in not seeing those non-legacy admits attend these schools.
If the legacy admit is more qualified, then that will show up in the process without a legacy preference and they will earn their spot.
If the legacy admit and the non-legacy admit are equally qualified, I think there are greater social benefits to admitting the non-legacy students, even if there are certain benefits to the legacy student and the institution in admitting the legacy student.
If you give advantage to the legacy student, we ignore the societal benefits of seeing more families gain access to elite education, especially since we're already talking about highly qualified applicants here.
I would like to see more smart, hardworking students with middle class and/or rural backgrounds, and just more applicants with very limited professional and academic connections, gain access to these institutions. I think it would benefit all of us in the form of a more diverse professional class. Not just racially diverse, but diverse in backgrounds. I view legacy preference as an obstacle to that.
But if all things are equal, why would a private university not be able to choose the legacy over the same equally qualified candidate? If the parents/grandparents already give $$$, it's more likely they will continue to give and even more likely they will give more if the kid attends. It's just another part of the admissions process.
Given that most schools still don't admit all qualified legacy candidates (I doubt legacies are more than 20% at most schools--Harvard is only 14%), and the ones they do admit are largely "qualified", why not? Sure is it fair? well nothing in life is "Fair".
The really rich and famous kids would still get in due to name recognition, even if we eliminated "legacy" unless the admission process goes "name blind".
Fact still remains that at Elite universities, 95% of applicants are "qualified", yet the admission rates are only 5-10%, 9-9.5 out of 10 students wont gain admission.
Anonymous
01/17/2023 14:57
Subject: Question for those opposed to legacy status
Anonymous wrote:If you want to leave parents out of the equation, don’t ask if parents went to college and higher degree achieved.
Why? They can ask, just not use it as a data point.
And seeing where your parents went to school absolutely matters. It will indicate your family background and education.
If your parent went to no name podunk university you may not have had as much privilege and connections as someone whose parent went to a top tier.
Anonymous
01/17/2023 14:54
Subject: Question for those opposed to legacy status
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I see what seems like a lot of posts from people strongly opposed to “legacy admissions” and I’m curious about this position. I agree that unqualified applicants should not be admitted to any schools. Do you assume that no legacy applicants are qualified for admission to the school their parent attended? That seems odd to me given how important parental expectations are for success in school and life.
Do you mean that no kids should be permitted to apply to the schools their parents attended? How would it even work, when the common app asks for parental information (and that appears to be the basis for first generation applicants)? And how is it different from school that look at demonstrated interest? Why should legacy kids’ interest in attending the school they are familiar with, have a personal/family connection to, and likely grew up knowing about, visiting, rooting for its sports teams, etc not be allowed to follow that interest?
Genuinely curious, I promise.
Not rocket science. Simply ignore legacy status, focus on merit 100%.
Candidate deserves it? Gets in.
Doesn't deserve it? Doesn't get in.
Who your parents are should be irrelevant.
Except ... you're using terms like "deserve it." How do you determine who "deserves it?"
What do you do when you have 500 spots and there are 10,000 qualified applicants?
That's when these other criteria become valid, including legacy, affirmative action, etc. Schools build cohorts and communities. They aren't some reward for high achievement.
How do you think any, say, sports team would do it?
From those 10,000 qualified applicants you'd find the 500 most qualified.
Anonymous
01/17/2023 14:54
Subject: Question for those opposed to legacy status
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I see what seems like a lot of posts from people strongly opposed to “legacy admissions” and I’m curious about this position. I agree that unqualified applicants should not be admitted to any schools. Do you assume that no legacy applicants are qualified for admission to the school their parent attended? That seems odd to me given how important parental expectations are for success in school and life.
Do you mean that no kids should be permitted to apply to the schools their parents attended? How would it even work, when the common app asks for parental information (and that appears to be the basis for first generation applicants)? And how is it different from school that look at demonstrated interest? Why should legacy kids’ interest in attending the school they are familiar with, have a personal/family connection to, and likely grew up knowing about, visiting, rooting for its sports teams, etc not be allowed to follow that interest?
Genuinely curious, I promise.
Not rocket science. Simply ignore legacy status, focus on merit 100%.
Candidate deserves it? Gets in.
Doesn't deserve it? Doesn't get in.
Who your parents are should be irrelevant.
And why should alums give large gifts to their schools if this is what takes place? I certainly won’t be giving. There are better places to send my money. Alums give big to get their kids in. My slac is teetering towards insolvency due to COViD. It needs every dollar it can get it it won’t make it
Here's a suggesting - go ahead and give your money to a better cause now. If the only reason you are giving money is to curry favor for your child, I'd say that money is already being wasted.
Anonymous
01/17/2023 14:52
Subject: Question for those opposed to legacy status
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I see what seems like a lot of posts from people strongly opposed to “legacy admissions” and I’m curious about this position. I agree that unqualified applicants should not be admitted to any schools. Do you assume that no legacy applicants are qualified for admission to the school their parent attended? That seems odd to me given how important parental expectations are for success in school and life.
Do you mean that no kids should be permitted to apply to the schools their parents attended? How would it even work, when the common app asks for parental information (and that appears to be the basis for first generation applicants)? And how is it different from school that look at demonstrated interest? Why should legacy kids’ interest in attending the school they are familiar with, have a personal/family connection to, and likely grew up knowing about, visiting, rooting for its sports teams, etc not be allowed to follow that interest?
Genuinely curious, I promise.
Not rocket science. Simply ignore legacy status, focus on merit 100%.
Candidate deserves it? Gets in.
Doesn't deserve it? Doesn't get in.
Who your parents are should be irrelevant.
And why should alums give large gifts to their schools if this is what takes place? I certainly won’t be giving. There are better places to send my money. Alums give big to get their kids in. My slac is teetering towards insolvency due to COViD. It needs every dollar it can get it it won’t make it
Schools wouldn't need obscene amounts of money if they focused on learning instead of building expensive facilities and bloated, self-enriching bureaucracies.
Anonymous
01/17/2023 14:52
Subject: Question for those opposed to legacy status
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I see what seems like a lot of posts from people strongly opposed to “legacy admissions” and I’m curious about this position. I agree that unqualified applicants should not be admitted to any schools. Do you assume that no legacy applicants are qualified for admission to the school their parent attended? That seems odd to me given how important parental expectations are for success in school and life.
Do you mean that no kids should be permitted to apply to the schools their parents attended? How would it even work, when the common app asks for parental information (and that appears to be the basis for first generation applicants)? And how is it different from school that look at demonstrated interest? Why should legacy kids’ interest in attending the school they are familiar with, have a personal/family connection to, and likely grew up knowing about, visiting, rooting for its sports teams, etc not be allowed to follow that interest?
Genuinely curious, I promise.
Not rocket science. Simply ignore legacy status, focus on merit 100%.
Candidate deserves it? Gets in.
Doesn't deserve it? Doesn't get in.
Who your parents are should be irrelevant.
Except ... you're using terms like "deserve it." How do you determine who "deserves it?"
What do you do when you have 500 spots and there are 10,000 qualified applicants?
That's when these other criteria become valid, including legacy, affirmative action, etc. Schools build cohorts and communities. They aren't some reward for high achievement.
Anonymous
01/17/2023 14:51
Subject: Question for those opposed to legacy status
Anonymous wrote:Schools rely on alumni for fundraising. How will this affect a school's donations if there is no such legacy preference? Doesn't this fundraising help financial aide?
I'm a PP above who gives more to the school without legacy status.
People need to seriously reflect if they know they would give less to their alma mater based on the removal of legacy policies.
Likewise, schools need to find a way to cut this tie while still encouraging people to give.
Anonymous
01/17/2023 14:51
Subject: Question for those opposed to legacy status
If you want to leave parents out of the equation, don’t ask if parents went to college and higher degree achieved.
Anonymous
01/17/2023 14:49
Subject: Re:Question for those opposed to legacy status
Anonymous wrote:In my experience, kids aren't given preference to schools because their parents attended the school. They are given preference when the parent gives money to the school.
BINGO!
Anonymous
01/17/2023 14:49
Subject: Question for those opposed to legacy status
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I see what seems like a lot of posts from people strongly opposed to “legacy admissions” and I’m curious about this position. I agree that unqualified applicants should not be admitted to any schools. Do you assume that no legacy applicants are qualified for admission to the school their parent attended? That seems odd to me given how important parental expectations are for success in school and life.
Do you mean that no kids should be permitted to apply to the schools their parents attended? How would it even work, when the common app asks for parental information (and that appears to be the basis for first generation applicants)? And how is it different from school that look at demonstrated interest? Why should legacy kids’ interest in attending the school they are familiar with, have a personal/family connection to, and likely grew up knowing about, visiting, rooting for its sports teams, etc not be allowed to follow that interest?
Genuinely curious, I promise.
Not rocket science. Simply ignore legacy status, focus on merit 100%.
Candidate deserves it? Gets in.
Doesn't deserve it? Doesn't get in.
Who your parents are should be irrelevant.
And why should alums give large gifts to their schools if this is what takes place? I certainly won’t be giving. There are better places to send my money. Alums give big to get their kids in. My slac is teetering towards insolvency due to COViD. It needs every dollar it can get it it won’t make it
Gosh rich people are so irritating. This is why people talk about eating your kind, FYI.
Anonymous
01/17/2023 14:47
Subject: Question for those opposed to legacy status
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I see what seems like a lot of posts from people strongly opposed to “legacy admissions” and I’m curious about this position. I agree that unqualified applicants should not be admitted to any schools. Do you assume that no legacy applicants are qualified for admission to the school their parent attended? That seems odd to me given how important parental expectations are for success in school and life.
Do you mean that no kids should be permitted to apply to the schools their parents attended? How would it even work, when the common app asks for parental information (and that appears to be the basis for first generation applicants)? And how is it different from school that look at demonstrated interest? Why should legacy kids’ interest in attending the school they are familiar with, have a personal/family connection to, and likely grew up knowing about, visiting, rooting for its sports teams, etc not be allowed to follow that interest?
Genuinely curious, I promise.
Not rocket science. Simply ignore legacy status, focus on merit 100%.
Candidate deserves it? Gets in.
Doesn't deserve it? Doesn't get in.
Who your parents are should be irrelevant.
And why should alums give large gifts to their schools if this is what takes place? I certainly won’t be giving. There are better places to send my money. Alums give big to get their kids in. My slac is teetering towards insolvency due to COViD. It needs every dollar it can get it it won’t make it