Anonymous wrote:PP with a child suffering from SM. I forgot to say, phrases like thank you, please, hello, etc are the most difficult for kids with social anxiety because there is an expectation to say them.

Posters above who are attacking this kid’s manners and mom’s parenting: you are really lucky to have NT kids who can do these things with ease, but you haven’t walked in other peoples’ shoes

1) Maybe because they have bad parents who coddle them.
2) JK. That woman, or man, lacks any empathy and I am hopeful I don't know her in real life. Amen, 100%.

Therapy.

We put our extremely shy kid in therapy (CBT) and it helped so much. She went from being too scared to even raise her hand in class to being her class president.

PP with a child suffering from SM. I forgot to say, phrases like thank you, please, hello, etc are the most difficult for kids with social anxiety because there is an expectation to say them.

Posters above who are attacking this kid’s manners and mom’s parenting: you are really lucky to have NT kids who can do these things with ease, but you haven’t walked in other peoples’ shoes

Okay, if the shyness us really new in the last couple of years, I would find out if something triggered it. Could there have been some kind of trauma at school, or I hate to say this, abuse you are not aware of?

Once you eliminate any origins,I'd get him to a therapist because this level of shyness is usually anxiety.

And remember, reward, don't punish. Encourage, don't threaten.

Good luck.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know how that sounds.

The issue is, he does say please and thank you and whatever else, but it's usually to his lap or with his lips not moving, or on the rare case where we can get him to look up and move his lips, it's so quiet you need to be a lip-reading expert to hear him. No one has been overtly offended, I assume because it's obvious he's trying, but clearly we can't continue like this. Advice?

What is his normal speech decibel,? If he isn't this soft spoken in his normal voice then it's bull about being to shy to speak so that people can hear him

That makes no sense.

12 year old with an anxiety disorder. She freezes and is unable to speak. In some situations, I will prompt her to speak louder or to look and smile. I do think building distress tolerance is valuable and it't good to make a kid stretch themself. But I'm also not wasting energy on authoritarian bullies, my kid (and I) will never fit in with people who think there is only one way to be so they aren't worth the effort.

Anonymous wrote:I know how that sounds.

The issue is, he does say please and thank you and whatever else, but it's usually to his lap or with his lips not moving, or on the rare case where we can get him to look up and move his lips, it's so quiet you need to be a lip-reading expert to hear him. No one has been overtly offended, I assume because it's obvious he's trying, but clearly we can't continue like this. Advice?

What is his normal speech decibel,? If he isn't this soft spoken in his normal voice then it's bull about being to shy to speak so that people can hear him

Anonymous wrote:I know so many people (all women) who take such pleasure in using “manners” as a cudgel.

It’s bad enough to take aim at other adults, but bashing children just reveals a cruel streak.

',Good manners open doors that the best education cannot.". Clarence Thomas and the only thing he has ever said with which I can agree.

It is your responsibility as a parent to teach your children good manners and to teach them they are not for special occasions but to use every day of their life.

Anonymous wrote:This sounds like it is in the realm of selective mutism, which is driven by anxiety. I would start by practicing with him as others have suggested, but if that doesn't improve the situation, it may be time to reach out to a therapist. If this type of shutting down affects his performance in school, you may also want to consider anti-anxiety meds.

In the meantime, keep modeling the behavior when you are with him. After he quietly says thank you, you can make eye contact with the person and thank them clearly. You shouldn't explain why your son's thank you was inaudible or put him on the spot; just thank the person and move on. And lots of praise in private for when your son is at all successful with this.

I was also thinking selective mutism. My oldest has suffered from SM and social anxiety from a young age. Try to lower anxiety around these situations and then practice gradual approximations to the desired behavior.

OP, it may be a phase. My DS was like that at 10. He would hide behind me if he saw a teacher walking by, so he wouldn't have to speak. He never raised his hand in school. He would talk to relatives, only because he knew them well. Otherwise he was avoidant.

I never classified him as shy or questioned if he was neuro-divergent. I just basically ignored it.

FF 10 years and he is a different kid. When he left for college, he reinvented himself. He is outgoing and is president of his fraternity. Never in a MILLION years would have I predicted it. If someone showed me a crystal ball, I would have laughed.

Encourage him, but not from fear. Support who he is. If you focus on it, it may become worse. Of course, if your instinct is he has other issues, then that's another issue.

Anonymous wrote:I know so many people (all women) who take such pleasure in using “manners” as a cudgel.

It’s bad enough to take aim at other adults, but bashing children just reveals a cruel streak.

As I said, most of these so-called impolite kids have all kinds of development reasons for being that way.

Middle aged women judging them? What's their excuse for being rude?

Anonymous wrote:I know so many people (all women) who take such pleasure in using “manners” as a cudgel.

It’s bad enough to take aim at other adults, but bashing children just reveals a cruel streak.

I agree.

More often than not, when a woman notices that my 5 yr old is shy, she becomes laser focused on him and tries to get him to talk. It really makes the whole interaction stressful.

But you surely realize that a parent can MOTIVATE without succeeding -- right? And that there are some kids who literally will not do what they are being told to do in some case (maybe even CANT) no matter what a parent says or does?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I taught my kids around age 2 and 3 that not all kids had such good manners as them and to be very proud of themselves for their wonderful manners, and to say it "loud and proud." Why did you let him get to such an old age without working on this much earlier?

What does he think will happen if people notice he said thank you? They'll ... say you're welcome? Honestly, at his age I'd find it totally unacceptable and not allow him to accept anything unless he can say thank you. No ordering food in restaurants, no gifts, nothing. Not until he can bring himself to look people in the eye for the half second it takes to audibly say thank you. This coddling is total BS.

This is really myopic. Do you understand that some people have challenges your children may not face? I am a parent of 4, and although I typically have a hard time when people with larger families deride those with fewer children, I understand why they do -- life hasn't yet taught you that kids aren't in your completely control.

Yes, of course I do. But some things are unacceptable. Sometimes my kids have to push themselves and be uncomfortable for a couple of seconds or hours or whatever, because that's life. They learn to cope and push through things to do what needs to get done. I also have four, and when one of mine went through a shy phase they weren't allowed to accept the free cookie the bakery lady offered them since they wouldn't say thank you. And guess what? Seeing their three siblings munching away happily helped them get over themselves.

So basically, you are saying that if my kids aren't doing all the things they should be, that is because I as a parent failed?

I'm saying excusing bad behavior is a failure. Obviously kids are a work in progress but you do have to push them rather than coddle them all the time. And if a kid can't say please and thank you then they don't get things. If they can speak, they are required to say those phrases.

Putting aside the last sentence. do you think all kids respond the same to what you are calling "coddling?" Have you ever experienced a situation with your children in which pushing backfired?

My kids respond differently to different things. One kid needs to be inspired while one just wants to be told directly what to do, etc. So sometimes I don't phrase things the right way for the right kid, and have to try again. But look, if OP's kid never faces any negative consequences for his poor manners and he continuously hears his mother excusing them to people "Oh he's shy, but he whispered thank you I promise!" then what will be his motivation to change?"

No one is saying that --

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I taught my kids around age 2 and 3 that not all kids had such good manners as them and to be very proud of themselves for their wonderful manners, and to say it "loud and proud." Why did you let him get to such an old age without working on this much earlier?

What does he think will happen if people notice he said thank you? They'll ... say you're welcome? Honestly, at his age I'd find it totally unacceptable and not allow him to accept anything unless he can say thank you. No ordering food in restaurants, no gifts, nothing. Not until he can bring himself to look people in the eye for the half second it takes to audibly say thank you. This coddling is total BS.

This is really myopic. Do you understand that some people have challenges your children may not face? I am a parent of 4, and although I typically have a hard time when people with larger families deride those with fewer children, I understand why they do -- life hasn't yet taught you that kids aren't in your completely control.

Yes, of course I do. But some things are unacceptable. Sometimes my kids have to push themselves and be uncomfortable for a couple of seconds or hours or whatever, because that's life. They learn to cope and push through things to do what needs to get done. I also have four, and when one of mine went through a shy phase they weren't allowed to accept the free cookie the bakery lady offered them since they wouldn't say thank you. And guess what? Seeing their three siblings munching away happily helped them get over themselves.

So basically, you are saying that if my kids aren't doing all the things they should be, that is because I as a parent failed?

I'm saying excusing bad behavior is a failure. Obviously kids are a work in progress but you do have to push them rather than coddle them all the time. And if a kid can't say please and thank you then they don't get things. If they can speak, they are required to say those phrases.

Putting aside the last sentence. do you think all kids respond the same to what you are calling "coddling?" Have you ever experienced a situation with your children in which pushing backfired?

My kids respond differently to different things. One kid needs to be inspired while one just wants to be told directly what to do, etc. So sometimes I don't phrase things the right way for the right kid, and have to try again. But look, if OP's kid never faces any negative consequences for his poor manners and he continuously hears his mother excusing them to people "Oh he's shy, but he whispered thank you I promise!" then what will be his motivation to change?"