Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just laugh at the people who think there is some imaginary "intelligence" boundary between those who have the capacity to build a compelling narrative and those who do not.

It's just a lie people with bad personalities tell themselves to feel better.

Any high level job or leadership position requires the ability to sell - themselves, their company, an idea, or a product.

Fair enough, but some sales is unethical, like pharmaceutical sales. That's where the sleaze is.

If we really dig into it, all sales is unethical, since they're trying to convince you to buy something you don't need. If you truly needed it, you wouldn't need their convincing, you'd go buy the item in question.

I am in sales. I make a lot of money. I sell B2B and B2C. I make zero cold calls and conduct almost zero outreach, it is all responding to customer requests from website. Customer’s have choices, I provide information to help they make a decision. Always honest.

I don’t say anything that is not true, don’t make ambiguous or unethical claims, don’t knock the competition. Do you know why I don’t do any of these things? They just cause headaches and more work later on that keep me from selling more. Also my customers are my biggest sales team. If they are happy they tell people they are happy and those people buy from me.

There are sleazy people in every industry and there are great people in every industry.

Blanket statements that stereotype are a sign of of ignorance.

If we really dig into it, all sales is unethical, since they're trying to convince you to buy something you don't need. If you truly needed it, you wouldn't need their convincing, you'd go buy the item in question.

I hate salesmen in general, but I don't totally agree with this. I recently wanted to buy a television set. Not knowing much about the current product lines, I was hoping to go into a store, tell the salesman what I wanted (size, resolution, budget, etc.), and have him explain the store's offerings in order to help me decide what to buy. This sort of service is actually helpful to customers. (As it happens, my experience was far worse. but helpful sales experiences can and do exist.)

“Sales” is a job that encompasses as lot of different things. I assure you that my husband, who sells multi-million dollar services to C suites, is anything but sleazy.

If you are talking about sales for consumer products, if they may be “sleazy” because those tactics work. Blame those who fall for those tactics as opposed to those trying to make money.

If you are talking about low end business sales, I don’t think those people are sleazy, but rather, they may be sneaky/persistent about trying to get in touch with a decision maker.

It is as simple as the fact that salespeople receive commissions. Often it’s the majority of their compensation. So of course they are going to do what they are incented to do - sell. If the product is not good enough, that’s not their fault. If the customer service doesn’t support it well, that’s also not their fault. So they are not necessarily sleazes on an individual level, but they are part of a system that functions in this way.

people in all professions are like this - they do what they are paid to do. So I don’t think other professionals are more noble, they are just compensated to do other things.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These folks are academically weak and need some way to make money.

A good salesman out earns most people with more impressive degrees. Even in fields with professional degrees, rainmaker big law partners are really just salesmen. The difference between a great doctor and a regular doctor usually comes down less to skill and more to their ability to sell themselves as a great doctor. I can't think of any field where this doesn't apply, even the best engineers who form start ups are successful in raising VC because they can sell themselves and their ideas.

My DH Is in sales and has a bachelor's in kinesiology/exercise science from a state school. He outearns me and I have an Ivy MBA.

Is he in medical device sales? I wish I could capitalize on my masters in health science for a gig like that!

Another reason I love sales: I control my destiny. The sky is the limit with how much I can make, and I'm not tied to an immobile salary.

There are B2B and B2C salespeople, and there is a big difference between the two. Agree with all of the people who say any professional service is going to require it's representatives, be they doctors or engineers or tech firms, to have people skills and essentially sell their service.

I am a college dropout who got in to sales, then got in to recruiting (which is tricky sales because you have to sell to the client and sell the job to the candidate), and now I own a staffing firm that exists because of sales and business development.

I don't consider myself or my coworkers sleazy. I know a lot of sleazy engineers, tech workers and government workers. Sales has been great for me

I love how people associate sales with car salesman or other in your face type of sales gigs.

A majority of sales people aren’t remotely like that and look down on those tactics. I am in sales and don’t even really “sell”. I have conversations with people, provide accurate and factual information. I frequently tell potential customers that our solutions aren’t a good fit. I also frequently tell customers that they should explore one of our competitors because I don’t want to deal with them and know they will never be happy. I don’t play games or tell them what they want to hear. I don’t get offended or really care much if they don’t purchase. One bus leaves another one arrives.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These folks are academically weak and need some way to make money.

A good salesman out earns most people with more impressive degrees. Even in fields with professional degrees, rainmaker big law partners are really just salesmen. The difference between a great doctor and a regular doctor usually comes down less to skill and more to their ability to sell themselves as a great doctor. I can't think of any field where this doesn't apply, even the best engineers who form start ups are successful in raising VC because they can sell themselves and their ideas.

My DH Is in sales and has a bachelor's in kinesiology/exercise science from a state school. He outearns me and I have an Ivy MBA.

But you're smarter than he is, right? Who cares how much he earns? I think if you value intellect, it's hard to admire the sales skill unless you're selling something sophisticated.

My DH doesn’t have a degree, is brilliant and smarter than my brother with an Ivy masters. And DH far out earns brother.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just laugh at the people who think there is some imaginary "intelligence" boundary between those who have the capacity to build a compelling narrative and those who do not.

It's just a lie people with bad personalities tell themselves to feel better.

Any high level job or leadership position requires the ability to sell - themselves, their company, an idea, or a product.

Fair enough, but some sales is unethical, like pharmaceutical sales. That's where the sleaze is.

If we really dig into it, all sales is unethical, since they're trying to convince you to buy something you don't need. If you truly needed it, you wouldn't need their convincing, you'd go buy the item in question.

Anonymous wrote:I just laugh at the people who think there is some imaginary "intelligence" boundary between those who have the capacity to build a compelling narrative and those who do not.

It's just a lie people with bad personalities tell themselves to feel better.

Any high level job or leadership position requires the ability to sell - themselves, their company, an idea, or a product.

Fair enough, but some sales is unethical, like pharmaceutical sales. That's where the sleaze is.

^PP. Also, a lot of stuff a salesperson is trying to sell you, you don't really need. So, if they let you think about it, you won't buy it. Again, they want to eat.

That's easy. You are standing between the salesperson and your wallet. The salesperson wants to eat.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just laugh at the people who think there is some imaginary "intelligence" boundary between those who have the capacity to build a compelling narrative and those who do not.

It's just a lie people with bad personalities tell themselves to feel better.

Any high level job or leadership position requires the ability to sell - themselves, their company, an idea, or a product.

It’s not about intelligence, it’s about integrity. They tell customers that they have the best solution and make exaggerations without any regard or even knowledge of the truth (most have little actual experience with what they sell).

Most have no idea what they're selling, they memorized a script.

Sales people need to get others to act now--or else they don't generate income. Some do so with a higher degree of integrity than others--just like any other profession or occupation.