Anonymous wrote:OP again just to frame the question: How can you break through to someone who distrusts the expert advice (the estate attorney), documents that plainly list assets and accounts, room by room, closet by closet videos and photos of the household effects with 6 of the 7 siblings concurring on the truths of the above. The expectation is even if the more onerous path is taken she will still feel she was cheated but has anyone been able to reason with someone like this??

She’s clearly crazy. You cannot reason with that.

Anonymous wrote:OP, any more on this? Has the executor produced a full inventory of the personal goods? What does the lawyer say about shipping items to the out of town siblings? When my FIL passed away, the estate paid to ship furniture from his home in California to us in DC.


OP here: Yes - there is a full inventory of the household with multiple photos of every room, closets etc with stand alone photos of significant items. The lawyer says estate COULD but isn't required to pay to ship items that people want but she doesn't suggest it due to cost and likely unfairness in case some take little, others take more/incur costs. The 'contents' of the home aren't going to be a significant portion of the estate and there's unlikely to be any issues over them as the few things anyone wants - the siblings are in agreement that they'll 'choose straws' for any two or more want. AND if the hold out one causes a stink with things - I'm guessing the default will be let her have it/not fight!! (Once she realizes how much it will cost to ship this probably won't be much.)

Honestly, the estate should just pay to ship items to the siblings that want things. It is not their fault that they don’t live locally and they should be able to have the items they’d like to have from their parents without needing to incur extra expense.

If the sibling is concerned things aren’t being handled 100% correctly, it is far better to have court oversight of the process so that everyone can be assured that the executor is completely on the up and up.

My cousins were involved in a situation where the executor was doing all kinds of underhanded things- hiding cash, selling items from the house and keeping the proceeds, refusing to distribute items that the parent had specified were for certain siblings. Eventually the executor had to go through a “formal accounting” through the court and things turned out badly for him when he was unable to account for all his actions as executor. He ended up being personally liable for the discrepancies.

So having the court involved from the very beginning can actually be a benefit in the long run.

Anonymous wrote:We did full probate and never set foot before a judge. This was in Richmond. We hired a local attorney that we literally found online and I think in total we paid him under $10k. Well worth it.

Me again. And it was definitely done in around 1 year.

We did full probate and never set foot before a judge. This was in Richmond. We hired a local attorney that we literally found online and I think in total we paid him under $10k. Well worth it.

OP, any more on this? Has the executor produced a full inventory of the personal goods? What does the lawyer say about shipping items to the out of town siblings? When my FIL passed away, the estate paid to ship furniture from his home in California to us in DC.


OP here: Yes - there is a full inventory of the household with multiple photos of every room, closets etc with stand alone photos of significant items. The lawyer says estate COULD but isn't required to pay to ship items that people want but she doesn't suggest it due to cost and likely unfairness in case some take little, others take more/incur costs. The 'contents' of the home aren't going to be a significant portion of the estate and there's unlikely to be any issues over them as the few things anyone wants - the siblings are in agreement that they'll 'choose straws' for any two or more want. AND if the hold out one causes a stink with things - I'm guessing the default will be let her have it/not fight!! (Once she realizes how much it will cost to ship this probably won't be much.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there anyone she trusts? If yes, maybe they can help.

If she doesn't trust anyone, not sure what you can do to change her mind. There's a good chance she will become more entrenched the more she's pushed and she starts to feel that she's losing any way to save face.

Yeahhhhh This is the OP and right now she's just paranoid and not trusting anyone - and denied that she hung up on last zoom call. Today my BIL is trying one more time & unbidden, overnighted her printed copies of everything (will, the MILs trust, accounts, statements) everything she's had access to electronically. Hoping she just sees there's nothing nefarious.

And to those who said let her take what she wants from house - she can basically take anything - but again it's nothing like valuable heirlooms AND she's gotta figure out how to ship. (Only BIL & my DH are local.) Everyone else has said what they want (very little!) but she keeps saying her list is just preliminary so even that is holding things up.
Long & drawn out will probably be reality.

When I was in a situation with an untrustworthy executor, my attorney instructed me to indicate that my list was preliminary until we received the inventory of household goods. So, she may be following the advice of her own attorney. Also, the estate could be required to pay to ship items to non-local beneficiaries.

Has the executor asked his lawyer about this situation?

OP, any more on this? Has the executor produced a full inventory of the personal goods?

What does the lawyer say about shipping items to the out of town siblings? When my FIL passed away, the estate paid to ship furniture from his home in California to us in DC.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there anyone she trusts? If yes, maybe they can help.

If she doesn't trust anyone, not sure what you can do to change her mind. There's a good chance she will become more entrenched the more she's pushed and she starts to feel that she's losing any way to save face.

Yeahhhhh This is the OP and right now she's just paranoid and not trusting anyone - and denied that she hung up on last zoom call. Today my BIL is trying one more time & unbidden, overnighted her printed copies of everything (will, the MILs trust, accounts, statements) everything she's had access to electronically. Hoping she just sees there's nothing nefarious.

And to those who said let her take what she wants from house - she can basically take anything - but again it's nothing like valuable heirlooms AND she's gotta figure out how to ship. (Only BIL & my DH are local.) Everyone else has said what they want (very little!) but she keeps saying her list is just preliminary so even that is holding things up.
Long & drawn out will probably be reality.

When I was in a situation with an untrustworthy executor, my attorney instructed me to indicate that my list was preliminary until we received the inventory of household goods. So, she may be following the advice of her own attorney. Also, the estate could be required to pay to ship items to non-local beneficiaries.

Has the executor asked his lawyer about this situation?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but if assets go into a trust how much does the executor have to follow the will? One sib, the golden child, who is estranged from everyone else is the executor. All assets, including house, are held in trust. Not staggering @ of money but would be nice if it was divided in accordance with the will. It was explained to me that it is outside of probate entirely. None of us have been given a copy of the will except for the named executor so I don't have a lot more detail. Without a copy of the will itself, how could anyone else prove that the will said to divide the estate in equal shares? Sorry if these are dumb questions but folks on this thread seem like they have been through the process. Thanks for any info.

That can be a problem with trusts. At least with probate there is some oversight of the executor. You might want to talk to an attorney in the state where the decedent lived.

Thanks, that was my guess. I think this is one final way to favor that golden child while outwardly claiming to be "fair." No way to challenge it w/o a copy of the will. It was suggested that a 3rd party executor be appointed/hired so the will would be executed according to terms. Narc mom always says she will have to speak to lawyer about that, but has seen him a few times without that provision changing. Estranged sib has plenty of money, some of the rest of us have SN kids and other needs that would be eased by a bit of a cushion. His wife has already cleared out the jewelry "for safekeeping." It's hurtful that things are set up to continue these dynamics even after death and gaslighting that the reality of the situation is denied.

Best to all in these situations.

One nice thing about probate in these situations is that the will becomes public record. If you are “lucky,” your mom will forget to fully fund the trust. Anything that isn’t in the trust will have to go through probate.

Ask a lawyer if the executor has to send a copy of the will to all the beneficiaries after the person dies. They are required to do that in some states, so at least you would know what the will says if they have to do that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but if assets go into a trust how much does the executor have to follow the will? One sib, the golden child, who is estranged from everyone else is the executor. All assets, including house, are held in trust. Not staggering @ of money but would be nice if it was divided in accordance with the will. It was explained to me that it is outside of probate entirely. None of us have been given a copy of the will except for the named executor so I don't have a lot more detail. Without a copy of the will itself, how could anyone else prove that the will said to divide the estate in equal shares? Sorry if these are dumb questions but folks on this thread seem like they have been through the process. Thanks for any info.

That can be a problem with trusts. At least with probate there is some oversight of the executor. You might want to talk to an attorney in the state where the decedent lived.

Thanks, that was my guess. I think this is one final way to favor that golden child while outwardly claiming to be "fair." No way to challenge it w/o a copy of the will. It was suggested that a 3rd party executor be appointed/hired so the will would be executed according to terms. Narc mom always says she will have to speak to lawyer about that, but has seen him a few times without that provision changing. Estranged sib has plenty of money, some of the rest of us have SN kids and other needs that would be eased by a bit of a cushion. His wife has already cleared out the jewelry "for safekeeping." It's hurtful that things are set up to continue these dynamics even after death and gaslighting that the reality of the situation is denied.

Best to all in these situations.

Anonymous wrote:Is there anyone she trusts? If yes, maybe they can help.

If she doesn't trust anyone, not sure what you can do to change her mind. There's a good chance she will become more entrenched the more she's pushed and she starts to feel that she's losing any way to save face.

Yeahhhhh This is the OP and right now she's just paranoid and not trusting anyone - and denied that she hung up on last zoom call. Today my BIL is trying one more time & unbidden, overnighted her printed copies of everything (will, the MILs trust, accounts, statements) everything she's had access to electronically. Hoping she just sees there's nothing nefarious.

And to those who said let her take what she wants from house - she can basically take anything - but again it's nothing like valuable heirlooms AND she's gotta figure out how to ship. (Only BIL & my DH are local.) Everyone else has said what they want (very little!) but she keeps saying her list is just preliminary so even that is holding things up.
Long & drawn out will probably be reality.

Is there anyone she trusts? If yes, maybe they can help.

If she doesn't trust anyone, not sure what you can do to change her mind. There's a good chance she will become more entrenched the more she's pushed and she starts to feel that she's losing any way to save face.

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but if assets go into a trust how much does the executor have to follow the will? One sib, the golden child, who is estranged from everyone else is the executor. All assets, including house, are held in trust. Not staggering @ of money but would be nice if it was divided in accordance with the will. It was explained to me that it is outside of probate entirely. None of us have been given a copy of the will except for the named executor so I don't have a lot more detail. Without a copy of the will itself, how could anyone else prove that the will said to divide the estate in equal shares? Sorry if these are dumb questions but folks on this thread seem like they have been through the process. Thanks for any info.

That can be a problem with trusts. At least with probate there is some oversight of the executor. You might want to talk to an attorney in the state where the decedent lived.

Not OP but if assets go into a trust how much does the executor have to follow the will? One sib, the golden child, who is estranged from everyone else is the executor. All assets, including house, are held in trust. Not staggering @ of money but would be nice if it was divided in accordance with the will. It was explained to me that it is outside of probate entirely. None of us have been given a copy of the will except for the named executor so I don't have a lot more detail. Without a copy of the will itself, how could anyone else prove that the will said to divide the estate in equal shares? Sorry if these are dumb questions but folks on this thread seem like they have been through the process. Thanks for any info.

Yes, if there is probate she will indeed get a day in court. Even if your BIL is the executor she can go into court on the day Probate is presented and ask whatever question she wants. Perhaps that will help calm her down and if not there will be a judge there to tell her to cool it.

I would let her pick what she wants from the house. If it’s not worth anything, you shouldn’t care. If it is, at least you will pay family and not the lawyers.