Anonymous
Post 01/09/2023 10:00     Subject: Re:S/O to well mannered kids
Anonymous wrote:I don't think what the kids did was rude but I also think there are some social intricacies here that (1) it's unreasonable to expect kids this age to get, and also (2) as an adult you have an opportunity to help teach/model.

I like to think "what is the ideal way to handle this situation for adults?" If I were offering to buy a drink for a friend or colleague, I'd have no issue at all if they politely requested an alternative drink that was also available from wherever I was ordering -- I'm not going to tell a friend "No, my offer was for coffee only, I refuse to buy you tea." I think it's rude to restrict an offered treat that way. On the other hand, I also think it's rude if someone offers to buy you something and you try to switch it to something much more expensive or add a bunch of add ons that will make it much pricier. Like if I offered to buy a friend a coffee and then they were like "could you also buy me a sandwich?" I would find that kind of rude. I also find it rude when I'm buying someone something as a favor and they get super nit-picky about it ("If they don't have oat milk see if they have soy milk and if not that I will do dairy milk but it HAS to be whole milk, otherwise I don't want coffee at all, instead I want...)

So in both these situations, I would have said yes to the requests, but I would also see if there is a way let the kids in on some "behind the scenes" info that would help them with these interactions in the future. You have to do it gently -- don't shame these kids. Like I might say "Of course I'm happy to get you the drink you want Larla, but that's a $10 specialty drink and I was planning to spend about $4 per person, what about one of the following options?" Or "If you are hungry, I'm happy to get you a croissant but we're in a bit of a hurry so how about we just get the croissant warmed instead of double toasted -- it's easiest to keep our order simple when we're a big group like this."

Sometimes people expect children to just know how everything about the world works and of course they don't. We have to teach them. I have less patience for adults who are oblivious to these kinds of social intricacies but then, they also probably never had an adult break this stuff down for them. The point is: if you want people to understand these things, you have to explain them so they learn.


I think this is exactly the right answer. OP, when you say you/your kid would never do this, do you mean you would also decline rather than asking for something else if an adult friend said, "I'm going to Starbucks; would you like coffee?" if you didn't drink coffee? Or is the no-substitutions-if-someone-else-is-treating rule only because you're an adult and they're children?
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2023 09:59     Subject: Re:S/O to well mannered kids
Anonymous wrote:My children don’t have opinions on things I give. For example, they wear what I put out, no complaints. They eat what we provide. They don’t ask for things at stores.

So yes, incredibly rude for her to assert herself.

However, we operate as a children should be seen not heard perspective. Children are given too long of a leash today.


Just out of curiosity, how old are these kids that you are laying out clothes for every day with no input, and who have zero input into what they eat? If you have tweens/teens, or even upper elementary kids, who still can't select food for themselves or pick out their clothes for the day and so so with reasonable judgment, you are failing as a parent. My 5 year old picks out her clothes and gets dressed on her own, and every day she manages to select an appropriate outfit that meets school uniform requirements, without my input. She can also pick out her own snacks (and knows to select healthy things and that "cookies" is not an acceptable snack) and order off a menu at a restaurant, and can decide for herself things like which cereal to have for breakfast or whether she wants cheese on her pasta or dressing on her salad. There are many things we decide for her, but the things you mention are actually the easiest places we've found to give her some agency so she can learn some basic life skills.

You might find that when you finally remove your child's "leash", as you put it, they don't know how to behave. They will need you to tell them what to do. At 12, at 18, at 26. This might not be the big win you think it is.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2023 09:54     Subject: S/O to well mannered kids
Anonymous wrote:Who takes children to Starbucks?



This! Actually, I know many who do and they get 5 yo coffee drinks! I think Starbucks is a waste of money and their drinks and "food" tastes chemically. No way my kids gets anything from there and I certainly wouldn't buy it for someone else's child.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2023 09:51     Subject: Re:S/O to well mannered kids
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. You all seem unanimous so I think maybe it’s a cultural thing. Im from a different country originally where kids wouldn’t do this. DD wouldn’t either but probably because of me. To the PP who said “ who takes kids to Starbucks?” I didn’t take them, hence pre ordering on the app. We did a cold weather outside activity then I thought getting s hot chocolate close by would be nice. It’s all in the same area.


It is a UMC with parents that don’t say no thing. My kids wouldn’t do this, but their absolutely have friends that do. I have no problems telling them no.


Then you’re rude. Who only buys hot choc and refuses tea?! How strangely controlling.


It’s rude to say you don’t want hot chocolate, but buy me a latte instead, at 10, or however old these kids are. If a parent asks if you want hot chocolate, it is a yes or no question. If one of the children says no, the polite adult would then ask if there was something else they would like instead. But to presume you can get a latte instead is rude.


This. When you serve birthday cake, you get what you get. You don’t survey everyone to see what they would like, otherwise you’d be having one red velvet cake, and one carrot cake, and one Brooklyn blackout cake. NO! It’s the same when you offer someone something else. It’s a yes or no response. My god, children are so coddled.


Except birthday cake is obviously different from a drink at a coffee place and kids understand that. You can't go to a birthday party and make a specialty cake request -- there is a cake and you can have some or not. But it's not like OP had a carafe of hot chocolate and was offering it to kids and one of them said "no, can you make me a chai latte instead?" THAT would have been rude. But OP was ordering individual drinks via an app. It's really not weird or rude to request an alternative (and similarly priced) drink in that situation. It imposes almost no extra burden on OP at all. I guess she has to scroll through the app for an extra 20 seconds? That doesn't feel like a big deal to me.

Teaching kids to only give yes or no responses to offers does not turn them into independent adults, by the way. It teaches them to be 100% reliant on your judgment and decision-making, because they are not allowed to ask questions. A lot of people who grow up with very militant parents like this struggle in adulthood, where you have to make choices and where the "right" choice is not always clear cut. A kid who (1) has a preference, and (2) can voice it, will be better prepared to navigate a world where there are many choices but not everyone is super accommodating. No one can tell you yes unless you ask in the first place.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2023 09:50     Subject: Re:S/O to well mannered kids
My children don’t have opinions on things I give. For example, they wear what I put out, no complaints. They eat what we provide. They don’t ask for things at stores.

So yes, incredibly rude for her to assert herself.

However, we operate as a children should be seen not heard perspective. Children are given too long of a leash today.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2023 09:45     Subject: Re:S/O to well mannered kids
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't think what the kids did was rude but I also think there are some social intricacies here that (1) it's unreasonable to expect kids this age to get, and also (2) as an adult you have an opportunity to help teach/model.

I like to think "what is the ideal way to handle this situation for adults?" If I were offering to buy a drink for a friend or colleague, I'd have no issue at all if they politely requested an alternative drink that was also available from wherever I was ordering -- I'm not going to tell a friend "No, my offer was for coffee only, I refuse to buy you tea." I think it's rude to restrict an offered treat that way. On the other hand, I also think it's rude if someone offers to buy you something and you try to switch it to something much more expensive or add a bunch of add ons that will make it much pricier. Like if I offered to buy a friend a coffee and then they were like "could you also buy me a sandwich?" I would find that kind of rude. I also find it rude when I'm buying someone something as a favor and they get super nit-picky about it ("If they don't have oat milk see if they have soy milk and if not that I will do dairy milk but it HAS to be whole milk, otherwise I don't want coffee at all, instead I want...)

So in both these situations, I would have said yes to the requests, but I would also see if there is a way let the kids in on some "behind the scenes" info that would help them with these interactions in the future. You have to do it gently -- don't shame these kids. Like I might say "Of course I'm happy to get you the drink you want Larla, but that's a $10 specialty drink and I was planning to spend about $4 per person, what about one of the following options?" Or "If you are hungry, I'm happy to get you a croissant but we're in a bit of a hurry so how about we just get the croissant warmed instead of double toasted -- it's easiest to keep our order simple when we're a big group like this."

Sometimes people expect children to just know how everything about the world works and of course they don't. We have to teach them. I have less patience for adults who are oblivious to these kinds of social intricacies but then, they also probably never had an adult break this stuff down for them. The point is: if you want people to understand these things, you have to explain them so they learn.


I agree with you, except I also don't think it's reasonable to think that kids know the relative cost of things. I'm pretty sure my kids think one drink = another drink, more or less, especially if they aren't familiar with the place or looking at the menu. Also, if they are used to going to starbucks and seeing their parent and/or they are used to requesting "double toasted," that probably doesn't seem like an addiitonal request. I think whether they are rude in this case depends on tone, the please/thank you, and how they responded to OP's no.


PP here. I agree which is why the entire point of my comment is "they are kids and might not understand this interaction so it is uncumbent on you, the adult, to help them understand." It's okay tot tell a kid "You can get an alternative but it has to cost the same -- so you can have any of these drinks under $4." Some kids don't even know to look at prices because no one has taught them to do so. It is never too early to start teaching your kid what money is and how it works, and learning relative costs of beverages at Starbucks is a totally reasonable place to start.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2023 09:45     Subject: Re:S/O to well mannered kids
I would never offer any of these kids anything ever again.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2023 09:43     Subject: S/O to well mannered kids
Anonymous wrote:Who are the parents buying 10 year olds Starbucks lattes anyway? Dumb


What makes it dumb? Just curious.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2023 09:42     Subject: Re:S/O to well mannered kids
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. You all seem unanimous so I think maybe it’s a cultural thing. Im from a different country originally where kids wouldn’t do this. DD wouldn’t either but probably because of me. To the PP who said “ who takes kids to Starbucks?” I didn’t take them, hence pre ordering on the app. We did a cold weather outside activity then I thought getting s hot chocolate close by would be nice. It’s all in the same area.


It is a UMC with parents that don’t say no thing. My kids wouldn’t do this, but their absolutely have friends that do. I have no problems telling them no.


Then you’re rude. Who only buys hot choc and refuses tea?! How strangely controlling.


It’s rude to say you don’t want hot chocolate, but buy me a latte instead, at 10, or however old these kids are. If a parent asks if you want hot chocolate, it is a yes or no question. If one of the children says no, the polite adult would then ask if there was something else they would like instead. But to presume you can get a latte instead is rude.


This. When you serve birthday cake, you get what you get. You don’t survey everyone to see what they would like, otherwise you’d be having one red velvet cake, and one carrot cake, and one Brooklyn blackout cake. NO! It’s the same when you offer someone something else. It’s a yes or no response. My god, children are so coddled.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2023 09:42     Subject: Re:S/O to well mannered kids
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. You all seem unanimous so I think maybe it’s a cultural thing. Im from a different country originally where kids wouldn’t do this. DD wouldn’t either but probably because of me. To the PP who said “ who takes kids to Starbucks?” I didn’t take them, hence pre ordering on the app. We did a cold weather outside activity then I thought getting s hot chocolate close by would be nice. It’s all in the same area.


It is a UMC with parents that don’t say no thing. My kids wouldn’t do this, but their absolutely have friends that do. I have no problems telling them no.


The asking for an extra item, and especially the asking for an extra item with special instructions, is definitely an entitlement thing. That's a kid whose parents not only don't say no to whatever food or drink item they ask for, but will indulge lots of special requests and probably makes such requests themselves (when you find a kid whose a high maintenance orderer, there's a high maintenance ordering parent behind them, I promise). It doesn't occur to them that an adult might not have a boundless sum of money to spend on random treats for kids because their parents do indeed seem to have this.

Asking for an alternative item that costs the same or similar, though, is not an entitlement issue. That's just a person who has learned that it's better to ask for what you actually want than to accept a gift of something you don't want. Which I think is practical and useful. I would like my kid to have the confidence and presence of mind to speak up in a situation like that.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2023 09:39     Subject: S/O to well mannered kids
Who are the parents buying 10 year olds Starbucks lattes anyway? Dumb
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2023 09:39     Subject: S/O to well mannered kids
You're the adult. You can say no
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2023 09:38     Subject: Re:S/O to well mannered kids
The kid was tone deaf, not “rude.” You’re asking for something pretty subtle. You probably wanted/expected the kid to do some initial self-effacing to confirm their lower, kid status before they made a request. Like “thank you so much! That sounds wonderful. Would it be possible to swap for a chai tea? I find hot chocolate to be a sugar rush. No worries if not.”

Which 1, is hard to know how to do and 2, is maybe not what I want to emphasize with young girls anyway.

At any rate, if I observed this with MY OWN kid, I would parent the social intelligence you’re looking for, not reinforce the lowly kid status. “Whoa, it was really nice of Miss Larla to offer hot chocolate! Next time please be sure to say thank you before you ask for a swap. Also since drinks are expensive and have different prices, sometimes it’s better not to ask for changes if someone is buying a drink for you.”

If it were another person’s kid I would just order the tea and move on. Who cares? It’s painless.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2023 09:36     Subject: S/O to well mannered kids
Add long as they asked politely, I think they're awesome. It's so great they can speak up and ask for what they want.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2023 09:32     Subject: Re:S/O to well mannered kids
Anonymous wrote:I don't think what the kids did was rude but I also think there are some social intricacies here that (1) it's unreasonable to expect kids this age to get, and also (2) as an adult you have an opportunity to help teach/model.

I like to think "what is the ideal way to handle this situation for adults?" If I were offering to buy a drink for a friend or colleague, I'd have no issue at all if they politely requested an alternative drink that was also available from wherever I was ordering -- I'm not going to tell a friend "No, my offer was for coffee only, I refuse to buy you tea." I think it's rude to restrict an offered treat that way. On the other hand, I also think it's rude if someone offers to buy you something and you try to switch it to something much more expensive or add a bunch of add ons that will make it much pricier. Like if I offered to buy a friend a coffee and then they were like "could you also buy me a sandwich?" I would find that kind of rude. I also find it rude when I'm buying someone something as a favor and they get super nit-picky about it ("If they don't have oat milk see if they have soy milk and if not that I will do dairy milk but it HAS to be whole milk, otherwise I don't want coffee at all, instead I want...)

So in both these situations, I would have said yes to the requests, but I would also see if there is a way let the kids in on some "behind the scenes" info that would help them with these interactions in the future. You have to do it gently -- don't shame these kids. Like I might say "Of course I'm happy to get you the drink you want Larla, but that's a $10 specialty drink and I was planning to spend about $4 per person, what about one of the following options?" Or "If you are hungry, I'm happy to get you a croissant but we're in a bit of a hurry so how about we just get the croissant warmed instead of double toasted -- it's easiest to keep our order simple when we're a big group like this."

Sometimes people expect children to just know how everything about the world works and of course they don't. We have to teach them. I have less patience for adults who are oblivious to these kinds of social intricacies but then, they also probably never had an adult break this stuff down for them. The point is: if you want people to understand these things, you have to explain them so they learn.


I agree with you, except I also don't think it's reasonable to think that kids know the relative cost of things. I'm pretty sure my kids think one drink = another drink, more or less, especially if they aren't familiar with the place or looking at the menu. Also, if they are used to going to starbucks and seeing their parent and/or they are used to requesting "double toasted," that probably doesn't seem like an addiitonal request. I think whether they are rude in this case depends on tone, the please/thank you, and how they responded to OP's no.