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Anonymous wrote:Planet fitness not gonna have the right equipment. Golds gym in ballston is a good one. Also most ymca have squat racks / barbells. The big 4 movements are amazing for muscle development but getting the form just right is tough and can take some time

What are the big 4 movements?

Squat, deadlift, overhead press, and barbell row.

You can do all of these with kettlebells for a while if you’re a beginner.

OP asked about Stronglifts. It is a barbell workout. Period. Yes, you can do similar movements with kettlebells or dumbbells or large rocks, but you are not doing Stronglifts. The two biggest reasons why this is the case:

1. Stronglifts starts with an empty 45 pound bar. You concentrate on learning barbell form with low weight. You can’t learn barbell form with kettlebells.
2. You add weight every time you repeat a workout with stronglifts. So 45, 50, 55…. That’s impossible with kettlebells unless you want to invest in dozens of pairs. And I don’t think they even make kettlebells in 2.5 pound increments.

OP didn’t tell us their gender, age and fitness level. A 45 lb bar is too much for most women starting out, particularly the row. I’m not sure how common it is for gyms to have lightweight bars. But I like the basic movements of 5x5 and you could do them all with kettlebells or dumbells. It’s not a magic formula.

(also a womanstarting out in middle age without prior strength training shouldn’t be increasing weight every time to begin with. Gotta take it slow.)

Got - you don’t think she should do stronglifts.

Did I say that? I don’t know who OP is. But if she’s a woman with no lifting experience - no, I do not think she should start with the original Strong Lift. She would need to build up to it an go slow.

No reason for her not to do Stronglifts if she starts by working with a trainer to get the form right.

Well not being able to lift a 45 lb bar or only being able to do it with bad from would be 1 reason. But hey no one ever got hurt in the gym so OP should be fine.

Do I even have to say “start with a lighter bar if you can’t lift the 45”? Apparently I do. 🙄

Do I even have to say “work with a trainer to get your form right”? Oh wait I already did say that. 🙄

All around those are some big movements for a lot of people especially those getting started. As I already said smaller movement that promote muscle activation and get the brain to muscle sequence moving to an individual muscle would be and ideal way to start. We can agree to disagree though.

My academic background is not in exercise science, but I've read probably 300 journal articles on resistance training in the past 5 years (it's something I read a LOT about), and I've never seen anything to suggest that the bolded is anything other than absolute nonsense.

In general, full body, compound exercises are recommended for beginners in every reputable source I've seen as well as by every strength coach I know of, and that applies to people at all ability levels.

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Anonymous wrote:Planet fitness not gonna have the right equipment. Golds gym in ballston is a good one. Also most ymca have squat racks / barbells. The big 4 movements are amazing for muscle development but getting the form just right is tough and can take some time

What are the big 4 movements?

Squat, deadlift, overhead press, and barbell row.

Most people don't really need to be doing any of these, at least not with a bar.

Most people don’t need to be doing anything BUT these with a bar. FTFY

This. I’ve known more than a dozen people who have run stronglifts, and “not benefitting from these exercises” is laughably far from their experience. Personally, I went from benching 135 to 250, never having deadlifted to deadlifting 400, and squatting 115 to squatting 275. All of this as a late 40s man with knees trashed from years of 70 mile per week running.

The notion that these movements are so wildly technical that “most people won’t benefit from them” or most people can’t learn them by proceeding carefully, watching videos, videotaping their form and requesting form checks from online communities is just silly. My squat form was coached by a former NFL player and squat record holder, who helped me out for free after answering some questions I posted online.

I’ve seen people bleat about muscle activation as if it were some incredibly hard thing, but that’s ridiculous. If you have any proprioceptive sense at all and you film your form regularly, you can absolutely develop good form on your own, and if you use appropriate weight and resist crazy gyrations to try to recruit non-primary muscles (eg bending your knees on OHP), it’s easy to get the exact benefit these exercises were designed to deliver. People claiming otherwise are typically trying to sell overpriced, ineffective personal training services. This happens a lot at my gym — the trainers work with fit healthy clients on silly, useless isolation movements, sucking money out of them for months as they don’t get stronger at all. Meanwhile, when the trainers work out — and when they introduce their buddies to working out — they do squats, bench, deadlift, rows, and overhead press. Most people who pay for personal training at my gym would be FAR better off doing stronglifts on their own.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Planet fitness not gonna have the right equipment. Golds gym in ballston is a good one. Also most ymca have squat racks / barbells. The big 4 movements are amazing for muscle development but getting the form just right is tough and can take some time

What are the big 4 movements?

Squat, deadlift, overhead press, and barbell row.

Most people don't really need to be doing any of these, at least not with a bar.

Most people don’t need to be doing anything BUT these with a bar. FTFY

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Planet fitness not gonna have the right equipment. Golds gym in ballston is a good one. Also most ymca have squat racks / barbells. The big 4 movements are amazing for muscle development but getting the form just right is tough and can take some time

What are the big 4 movements?

Squat, deadlift, overhead press, and barbell row.

You can do all of these with kettlebells for a while if you’re a beginner.

OP asked about Stronglifts. It is a barbell workout. Period. Yes, you can do similar movements with kettlebells or dumbbells or large rocks, but you are not doing Stronglifts. The two biggest reasons why this is the case:

1. Stronglifts starts with an empty 45 pound bar. You concentrate on learning barbell form with low weight. You can’t learn barbell form with kettlebells.
2. You add weight every time you repeat a workout with stronglifts. So 45, 50, 55…. That’s impossible with kettlebells unless you want to invest in dozens of pairs. And I don’t think they even make kettlebells in 2.5 pound increments.

OP didn’t tell us their gender, age and fitness level. A 45 lb bar is too much for most women starting out, particularly the row. I’m not sure how common it is for gyms to have lightweight bars. But I like the basic movements of 5x5 and you could do them all with kettlebells or dumbells. It’s not a magic formula.

A 45 lb barbell might be too much starting out for overhead press for an untrained woman, but certainly not squat or deadlift for the vast majority of people. The point of a linear progression program is to add weight quickly, so you would quickly need more weight even if you started with dumbbells. It's easier to lift the same amount of weight with a barbell vs. a dumbbell, so I would certainly prefer a barbell if one was available! My gym has 15 kg (33 lb) barbells in addition to the standard 20 kg, which was helpful for overhead press when I was starting out, but I don't think I used an empty 15 kg barbell for any other lift except for maybe bench press warm ups.

I started out with a similar linear progression powerlifting program when I was 36. I never had a trainer, and I am still going 4 years later. You can do this OP! I do wish I had gotten tips from a trainer on form at some point, and still might do so if I can find a powerlifting specialist willing to watch my form for just a few sessions, but it was still very doable to learn this from things like YouTube videos.

I don't always increase weight the full amount prescribed by these programs, but beginners should start light and increase weight rapidly for as long as they can hold on. They have a lot of strength gains that can be realized. At this point I usually run a program that increases weight more slowly than a beginner's linear progression (5/3/1) and tend to halve the recommended increase amount (5 lbs lower body/2.5 lbs upper instead of 10 lbs/5 lbs).

Good luck OP! You can do this!

5 X 5 is not a bad program. But, unless you are working with a really experienced trainer, it’s not a program that is good for someone newer to strength training. And even then, there are much better programs for people newer to lifting.

/trainer

Anonymous wrote:Well I for one have enjoyed this discussion. I read about it after this thread and tried it out yesterday-I like the idea as I have a hard time at the gym and find it boring. But I like the approach here-it’s easy enough and I can do what I do enjoy-running and a few classes-as well. I just keep reading about lifting heavier weights so this is a good start. I tried the 45lbs and it was pretty easy. I will give it a go. I just like programs that are easy to follow. If anyone has other ideas, I enjoy opinions!

If you want to keep it up, there is a stronglifts app that’s pretty good.

Well I for one have enjoyed this discussion. I read about it after this thread and tried it out yesterday-I like the idea as I have a hard time at the gym and find it boring. But I like the approach here-it’s easy enough and I can do what I do enjoy-running and a few classes-as well. I just keep reading about lifting heavier weights so this is a good start. I tried the 45lbs and it was pretty easy. I will give it a go. I just like programs that are easy to follow. If anyone has other ideas, I enjoy opinions!

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Anonymous wrote:Planet fitness not gonna have the right equipment. Golds gym in ballston is a good one. Also most ymca have squat racks / barbells. The big 4 movements are amazing for muscle development but getting the form just right is tough and can take some time

What are the big 4 movements?

Squat, deadlift, overhead press, and barbell row.

You can do all of these with kettlebells for a while if you’re a beginner.

OP asked about Stronglifts. It is a barbell workout. Period. Yes, you can do similar movements with kettlebells or dumbbells or large rocks, but you are not doing Stronglifts. The two biggest reasons why this is the case:

1. Stronglifts starts with an empty 45 pound bar. You concentrate on learning barbell form with low weight. You can’t learn barbell form with kettlebells.
2. You add weight every time you repeat a workout with stronglifts. So 45, 50, 55…. That’s impossible with kettlebells unless you want to invest in dozens of pairs. And I don’t think they even make kettlebells in 2.5 pound increments.

OP didn’t tell us their gender, age and fitness level. A 45 lb bar is too much for most women starting out, particularly the row. I’m not sure how common it is for gyms to have lightweight bars. But I like the basic movements of 5x5 and you could do them all with kettlebells or dumbells. It’s not a magic formula.

(also a womanstarting out in middle age without prior strength training shouldn’t be increasing weight every time to begin with. Gotta take it slow.)

Got - you don’t think she should do stronglifts.

Did I say that? I don’t know who OP is. But if she’s a woman with no lifting experience - no, I do not think she should start with the original Strong Lift. She would need to build up to it an go slow.

No reason for her not to do Stronglifts if she starts by working with a trainer to get the form right.

Well not being able to lift a 45 lb bar or only being able to do it with bad from would be 1 reason. But hey no one ever got hurt in the gym so OP should be fine.

Do I even have to say “start with a lighter bar if you can’t lift the 45”? Apparently I do. 🙄

Do I even have to say “work with a trainer to get your form right”? Oh wait I already did say that. 🙄

All around those are some big movements for a lot of people especially those getting started. As I already said smaller movement that promote muscle activation and get the brain to muscle sequence moving to an individual muscle would be and ideal way to start. We can agree to disagree though.

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Anonymous wrote:I would not recommend a 5x5 to a complete beginner. These are all very technical lifts and can be injurious if done incorrectly. You are also neglecting a bunch of muscle groups. Would it be better off with some more targeted beginner program with a mix of machines and free weights.

I’m curious what muscle groups you believe are neglected by a program focused entirely on compound, full-body lifts.

I have been weightlifting for about 8 years. I have done a number of different programs. 5 X 5 is my least favorite in terms of building muscle definition, since it focuses more on strength. I also found the compound lifts were super taxing on my pelvic floor. I do a dumbbell program now and have very pronounced muscle definition as long as I keep my diet in check. And I only lift about 2-3 times a week for 30-45 mins at a time. (Stats for reference: 42, female, 5 foot 1, 112 lbs)

But really, everyone has different preferences and there is no one size fits all.

There is no program that "builds muscle definition rather than strength". To get muscle definition, as you say yourself, keep your diet in check. If you do Stronglifts 5x5 while keeping your diet in check, you will have muscle definition - as well as being strong.

To be fair, there are hypertrophy focused programs, and some research suggests that higher rep ranges are better for hypertrophy. Lower rep ranges definitely seem better for building higher 1 rep max. PP may also be suggesting that she spends more time of isolation exercises to build up mirror muscles (curls, lateral raises) rather than functional strength. For lots of people, that’s a goal.

But yes, muscle definition is a function of diet.

Hypertrophy programs are not “muscle definition” programs. They make the muscle bigger but the muscle won’t be defined unless there is a strict diet. Lots of big, strong people at my gym do not have well-defined muscles, and many of the male powerlifters are, quite frankly, fat.

In other breaking news, water is wet.

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Anonymous wrote:I would not recommend a 5x5 to a complete beginner. These are all very technical lifts and can be injurious if done incorrectly. You are also neglecting a bunch of muscle groups. Would it be better off with some more targeted beginner program with a mix of machines and free weights.

I’m curious what muscle groups you believe are neglected by a program focused entirely on compound, full-body lifts.

I have been weightlifting for about 8 years. I have done a number of different programs. 5 X 5 is my least favorite in terms of building muscle definition, since it focuses more on strength. I also found the compound lifts were super taxing on my pelvic floor. I do a dumbbell program now and have very pronounced muscle definition as long as I keep my diet in check. And I only lift about 2-3 times a week for 30-45 mins at a time. (Stats for reference: 42, female, 5 foot 1, 112 lbs)

But really, everyone has different preferences and there is no one size fits all.

There is no program that "builds muscle definition rather than strength". To get muscle definition, as you say yourself, keep your diet in check. If you do Stronglifts 5x5 while keeping your diet in check, you will have muscle definition - as well as being strong.

To be fair, there are hypertrophy focused programs, and some research suggests that higher rep ranges are better for hypertrophy. Lower rep ranges definitely seem better for building higher 1 rep max. PP may also be suggesting that she spends more time of isolation exercises to build up mirror muscles (curls, lateral raises) rather than functional strength. For lots of people, that’s a goal.

But yes, muscle definition is a function of diet.

Hypertrophy programs are not “muscle definition” programs. They make the muscle bigger but the muscle won’t be defined unless there is a strict diet. Lots of big, strong people at my gym do not have well-defined muscles, and many of the male powerlifters are, quite frankly, fat.

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Anonymous wrote:Planet fitness not gonna have the right equipment. Golds gym in ballston is a good one. Also most ymca have squat racks / barbells. The big 4 movements are amazing for muscle development but getting the form just right is tough and can take some time

What are the big 4 movements?

Squat, deadlift, overhead press, and barbell row.

You can do all of these with kettlebells for a while if you’re a beginner.

OP asked about Stronglifts. It is a barbell workout. Period. Yes, you can do similar movements with kettlebells or dumbbells or large rocks, but you are not doing Stronglifts. The two biggest reasons why this is the case:

1. Stronglifts starts with an empty 45 pound bar. You concentrate on learning barbell form with low weight. You can’t learn barbell form with kettlebells.
2. You add weight every time you repeat a workout with stronglifts. So 45, 50, 55…. That’s impossible with kettlebells unless you want to invest in dozens of pairs. And I don’t think they even make kettlebells in 2.5 pound increments.

OP didn’t tell us their gender, age and fitness level. A 45 lb bar is too much for most women starting out, particularly the row. I’m not sure how common it is for gyms to have lightweight bars. But I like the basic movements of 5x5 and you could do them all with kettlebells or dumbells. It’s not a magic formula.

(also a womanstarting out in middle age without prior strength training shouldn’t be increasing weight every time to begin with. Gotta take it slow.)

Got - you don’t think she should do stronglifts.

Did I say that? I don’t know who OP is. But if she’s a woman with no lifting experience - no, I do not think she should start with the original Strong Lift. She would need to build up to it an go slow.

No reason for her not to do Stronglifts if she starts by working with a trainer to get the form right.

Well not being able to lift a 45 lb bar or only being able to do it with bad from would be 1 reason. But hey no one ever got hurt in the gym so OP should be fine.

Do I even have to say “start with a lighter bar if you can’t lift the 45”? Apparently I do. 🙄

Do I even have to say “work with a trainer to get your form right”? Oh wait I already did say that. 🙄

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Planet fitness not gonna have the right equipment. Golds gym in ballston is a good one. Also most ymca have squat racks / barbells. The big 4 movements are amazing for muscle development but getting the form just right is tough and can take some time

What are the big 4 movements?

Squat, deadlift, overhead press, and barbell row.

Most people don't really need to be doing any of these, at least not with a bar.

This is wildly wrong. Barbell lifts that improve functional strength by requiring you to do movements that you have to do in real life (squatting down, then standing up), bending over and picking something up off the floor, lifting something over your head, etc.) are great for everyone, particularly as we age. The lack of lean muscle mass at 50 is one of the best predictors of disability at 80. Also, these barbell exercises with heavy weight improve bone density -- I've lifted heavy for years, and at my last DEXA scan, my bone density was at the top of the scale -- like above the machine's ability to measure.

Plenty of other ways to work these muscles for the reasons you mentioned above. Most people don’t even have appropriate muscle engagement/activation to properly do these. Nothing wrong with working up to these, but most people don’t really need to be doing them yet. And most people will never get to a point or expert level where these specific exercises will have a huge impact. Variations of them yes but full bar exercises aren’t the answer for most.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Planet fitness not gonna have the right equipment. Golds gym in ballston is a good one. Also most ymca have squat racks / barbells. The big 4 movements are amazing for muscle development but getting the form just right is tough and can take some time

What are the big 4 movements?

Squat, deadlift, overhead press, and barbell row.

You can do all of these with kettlebells for a while if you’re a beginner.

OP asked about Stronglifts. It is a barbell workout. Period. Yes, you can do similar movements with kettlebells or dumbbells or large rocks, but you are not doing Stronglifts. The two biggest reasons why this is the case:

1. Stronglifts starts with an empty 45 pound bar. You concentrate on learning barbell form with low weight. You can’t learn barbell form with kettlebells.
2. You add weight every time you repeat a workout with stronglifts. So 45, 50, 55…. That’s impossible with kettlebells unless you want to invest in dozens of pairs. And I don’t think they even make kettlebells in 2.5 pound increments.

OP didn’t tell us their gender, age and fitness level. A 45 lb bar is too much for most women starting out, particularly the row. I’m not sure how common it is for gyms to have lightweight bars. But I like the basic movements of 5x5 and you could do them all with kettlebells or dumbells. It’s not a magic formula.

(also a womanstarting out in middle age without prior strength training shouldn’t be increasing weight every time to begin with. Gotta take it slow.)

Got - you don’t think she should do stronglifts.

Did I say that? I don’t know who OP is. But if she’s a woman with no lifting experience - no, I do not think she should start with the original Strong Lift. She would need to build up to it an go slow.

No reason for her not to do Stronglifts if she starts by working with a trainer to get the form right.

Well not being able to lift a 45 lb bar or only being able to do it with bad from would be 1 reason. But hey no one ever got hurt in the gym so OP should be fine.