Anonymous
12/12/2022 12:09
Subject: Re:Disappointed in junior staff
If it’s mandatory, you need to make it mandatory.
One of you is playing a silly game about “fun” and “worthwhile” and “knowing you should show up” for time that is paid work time you see as essential for team building.
The other is just responding to the directives as given.
Do everyone a favor and stop playing games. If the boss determines that an in person lunch is important for team building and needs to be on Friday? That’s fine! Communicate that clearly. It’s a mandatory activity and a mandatory in office day. Don’t do any dumb little dances about it.
One of you is playing a silly game about “fun” and “worthwhile” and “knowing you should show up” for time that is paid work time you see as essential for team building.
The other is just responding to the directives as given.
Do everyone a favor and stop playing games. If the boss determines that an in person lunch is important for team building and needs to be on Friday? That’s fine! Communicate that clearly. It’s a mandatory activity and a mandatory in office day. Don’t do any dumb little dances about it.
Anonymous
12/12/2022 12:05
Subject: Re:Disappointed in junior staff
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Irrelevant of your feelings on this, your boss noticed and commented, so the culture of your office (rightly or wrongly) is to judge people based on their presence at these events. I think it would be a kindness to tip off your junior employees. They may be thinking "not mandatory means totally optional, this is just for people who WANT to go" and have absolutely no idea that their absences are noted and commented on.
I would NOT bring this up in their annual review - it is not relevant to their immediate work, and it was optional.
But I would try and give them a heads up, because if I were in their shoes, I'd want to know. Something casual, off the record, like at the end of a phone call. "Hey, just a small thing - Big Boss noticed you weren't at either of the holiday events. I know they are optional, so you have every right not to come, but I figured if I were in your shoes I'd want a heads up that she does pay attention. I think it might help her impression of you if you were able to attend things like this when they come up. If there's anything I can do to make that easier for you, let me know."
PP here - just wanted to add, this also gives them the opportunity to say something like "argh, Mondays and Friday are impossible for me because of childcare! What bad luck!" which then gives YOU the opportunity to advocate for your staff, like saying something to your boss. "Larlo mentioned he was so bummed to miss the cocktail party! He had a scheduling conflict but would have liked to be there." And maybe in the moment next time, instead of shrugging your shoulders when the boss comments, you'd be able to say "oh, yes, they were sad to miss this, the time just did not work for them. Mid week is really much better for my staff" rather than implicitly agreeing with your boss when she commented.
if you are providing childcare for your child on Mondays and Fridays you arent working. THIS is the problem.
I’m the PP. No, sorry, I wasn’t clear. In my example, I was actually thinking of someone who can’t commute those days because of childcare. In my family, for example, my husband and I have arranged our schedules so that one of us is WFH each day of the week. So our nanny works 9-5, and we work 9-5. We can’t both be in the office on the same day because someone needs to be home right at 5 to relieve the nanny.
Anonymous
12/12/2022 11:20
Subject: Re:Disappointed in junior staff
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Millennials won’t work a minute longer than they are being paid to work. They have a time clock mentality.
I’m a millennial and this doesn’t ring true with me at all. But I’ve always been a highly compensated professional. How much are the millennials you’re referring to being paid?
+2
I’m a millennial and understand the importance of showing face - I’m in the office right now though I have a WFH option.
There are those who like to sh** on millennials for no discernible reason.
OP I think that while the junior employees certainly have the right to not attend these events, they’re not doing themselves any favors.
And that's their choice to make and a perfectly fine choice.
Anonymous
12/12/2022 11:18
Subject: Re:Disappointed in junior staff
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Millennials won’t work a minute longer than they are being paid to work. They have a time clock mentality.
I’m a millennial and this doesn’t ring true with me at all. But I’ve always been a highly compensated professional. How much are the millennials you’re referring to being paid?
+2
I’m a millennial and understand the importance of showing face - I’m in the office right now though I have a WFH option.
There are those who like to sh** on millennials for no discernible reason.
OP I think that while the junior employees certainly have the right to not attend these events, they’re not doing themselves any favors.
Anonymous
12/12/2022 11:11
Subject: Re:Disappointed in junior staff
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Irrelevant of your feelings on this, your boss noticed and commented, so the culture of your office (rightly or wrongly) is to judge people based on their presence at these events. I think it would be a kindness to tip off your junior employees. They may be thinking "not mandatory means totally optional, this is just for people who WANT to go" and have absolutely no idea that their absences are noted and commented on.
I would NOT bring this up in their annual review - it is not relevant to their immediate work, and it was optional.
But I would try and give them a heads up, because if I were in their shoes, I'd want to know. Something casual, off the record, like at the end of a phone call. "Hey, just a small thing - Big Boss noticed you weren't at either of the holiday events. I know they are optional, so you have every right not to come, but I figured if I were in your shoes I'd want a heads up that she does pay attention. I think it might help her impression of you if you were able to attend things like this when they come up. If there's anything I can do to make that easier for you, let me know."
PP here - just wanted to add, this also gives them the opportunity to say something like "argh, Mondays and Friday are impossible for me because of childcare! What bad luck!" which then gives YOU the opportunity to advocate for your staff, like saying something to your boss. "Larlo mentioned he was so bummed to miss the cocktail party! He had a scheduling conflict but would have liked to be there." And maybe in the moment next time, instead of shrugging your shoulders when the boss comments, you'd be able to say "oh, yes, they were sad to miss this, the time just did not work for them. Mid week is really much better for my staff" rather than implicitly agreeing with your boss when she commented.
if you are providing childcare for your child on Mondays and Fridays you arent working. THIS is the problem.
Correct. By 4 PM on Monday and Friday I have already put in 8 full hours of work. Then I am doing childcare. Is it really "the problem" that I can't stay late for a cocktail party? Really? (Before you ask, my spouse isn't available because they work a later schedule to handle kids in the morning and allow me to be at work at 7 AM.)
Anonymous
12/12/2022 10:41
Subject: Re:Disappointed in junior staff
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Millennials won’t work a minute longer than they are being paid to work. They have a time clock mentality.
Can we cut it the the Millennial bashing already. Most Millennials are mid-career professionals in their 30s now, not junior employees.
+1. I heard someone complaining about "Millennials" the other day and the person they were describing was 21. I wanted to say, "lady, I'm a 40 year old millennial with kids and a mortgage that's too big. I'm not who you're complaining about."
Anonymous
12/12/2022 10:32
Subject: Disappointed in junior staff
I interned at a law firm when I was in college 20 years ago. The BEST parties ever (boats, private rooms etc). As a parent now, meh. Been there, done that. Make attendance mandatory if it's that important.
On the other hand, I think it IS helpful to actually meet people you work with once in a while so if you make it mandatory with enough notice, people shouldn't complain because the event, if during work hours, IS the job they are being paid to do.
On the other hand, I think it IS helpful to actually meet people you work with once in a while so if you make it mandatory with enough notice, people shouldn't complain because the event, if during work hours, IS the job they are being paid to do.
Anonymous
12/12/2022 10:32
Subject: Disappointed in junior staff
Is your boss an alcoholic? Does she always make subordinates drink with her?
Anonymous
12/12/2022 10:30
Subject: Disappointed in junior staff
Anonymous wrote:Are you all allowing them to switch their telework days around? So if they came in on Monday, they could telework on Tuesday when they'd usually be in the office? If not, I wouldn't come in either.
I'm a millenial and my schedule can't be moved easily. I only have aftercare on T, W, Th. On the other days, my kids come home. I don't do anything with them and still work, but I have to be home because legally they're too little to leave alone.
I don't believe you. If your kids are home you are not working. Especially if they are all little. They are making their own snacks etc. I call BS.
Anonymous
12/12/2022 10:30
Subject: Disappointed in junior staff
Anonymous wrote:You and your boss sound awful.
My sentiment exactly. You cannot punish people if the event is not mandatory. Make it mandatory if you want attendance. Also don't schedule events on Fridays when people yearn for a have more relaxed workday, or perhaps leave for the weekend but still put in the work.
Since your company is that sort of workplace, I suggest you tell all the employees you manage that yes indeed, you consider the holidays parties to be required in the future. Thank the ones who did attend. Do not punish the ones who did not.
Anonymous
12/12/2022 10:29
Subject: Re:Disappointed in junior staff
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Irrelevant of your feelings on this, your boss noticed and commented, so the culture of your office (rightly or wrongly) is to judge people based on their presence at these events. I think it would be a kindness to tip off your junior employees. They may be thinking "not mandatory means totally optional, this is just for people who WANT to go" and have absolutely no idea that their absences are noted and commented on.
I would NOT bring this up in their annual review - it is not relevant to their immediate work, and it was optional.
But I would try and give them a heads up, because if I were in their shoes, I'd want to know. Something casual, off the record, like at the end of a phone call. "Hey, just a small thing - Big Boss noticed you weren't at either of the holiday events. I know they are optional, so you have every right not to come, but I figured if I were in your shoes I'd want a heads up that she does pay attention. I think it might help her impression of you if you were able to attend things like this when they come up. If there's anything I can do to make that easier for you, let me know."
PP here - just wanted to add, this also gives them the opportunity to say something like "argh, Mondays and Friday are impossible for me because of childcare! What bad luck!" which then gives YOU the opportunity to advocate for your staff, like saying something to your boss. "Larlo mentioned he was so bummed to miss the cocktail party! He had a scheduling conflict but would have liked to be there." And maybe in the moment next time, instead of shrugging your shoulders when the boss comments, you'd be able to say "oh, yes, they were sad to miss this, the time just did not work for them. Mid week is really much better for my staff" rather than implicitly agreeing with your boss when she commented.
if you are providing childcare for your child on Mondays and Fridays you arent working. THIS is the problem.
Anonymous
12/12/2022 10:27
Subject: Re:Disappointed in junior staff
Don't you have "engagement" or "communication" or something like that as general objectives every year? Ding them hard on those.
Anonymous
12/12/2022 10:26
Subject: Re:Disappointed in junior staff
Anonymous wrote:Millennials won’t work a minute longer than they are being paid to work. They have a time clock mentality.
Are you saying this like it is a bad thing?
Anonymous
12/12/2022 10:24
Subject: Re:Disappointed in junior staff
Anonymous wrote:Irrelevant of your feelings on this, your boss noticed and commented, so the culture of your office (rightly or wrongly) is to judge people based on their presence at these events. I think it would be a kindness to tip off your junior employees. They may be thinking "not mandatory means totally optional, this is just for people who WANT to go" and have absolutely no idea that their absences are noted and commented on.
I would NOT bring this up in their annual review - it is not relevant to their immediate work, and it was optional.
But I would try and give them a heads up, because if I were in their shoes, I'd want to know. Something casual, off the record, like at the end of a phone call. "Hey, just a small thing - Big Boss noticed you weren't at either of the holiday events. I know they are optional, so you have every right not to come, but I figured if I were in your shoes I'd want a heads up that she does pay attention. I think it might help her impression of you if you were able to attend things like this when they come up. If there's anything I can do to make that easier for you, let me know."
PP here - just wanted to add, this also gives them the opportunity to say something like "argh, Mondays and Friday are impossible for me because of childcare! What bad luck!" which then gives YOU the opportunity to advocate for your staff, like saying something to your boss. "Larlo mentioned he was so bummed to miss the cocktail party! He had a scheduling conflict but would have liked to be there." And maybe in the moment next time, instead of shrugging your shoulders when the boss comments, you'd be able to say "oh, yes, they were sad to miss this, the time just did not work for them. Mid week is really much better for my staff" rather than implicitly agreeing with your boss when she commented.
Anonymous
12/12/2022 10:19
Subject: Re:Disappointed in junior staff
Irrelevant of your feelings on this, your boss noticed and commented, so the culture of your office (rightly or wrongly) is to judge people based on their presence at these events. I think it would be a kindness to tip off your junior employees. They may be thinking "not mandatory means totally optional, this is just for people who WANT to go" and have absolutely no idea that their absences are noted and commented on.
I would NOT bring this up in their annual review - it is not relevant to their immediate work, and it was optional.
But I would try and give them a heads up, because if I were in their shoes, I'd want to know. Something casual, off the record, like at the end of a phone call. "Hey, just a small thing - Big Boss noticed you weren't at either of the holiday events. I know they are optional, so you have every right not to come, but I figured if I were in your shoes I'd want a heads up that she does pay attention. I think it might help her impression of you if you were able to attend things like this when they come up. If there's anything I can do to make that easier for you, let me know."
I would NOT bring this up in their annual review - it is not relevant to their immediate work, and it was optional.
But I would try and give them a heads up, because if I were in their shoes, I'd want to know. Something casual, off the record, like at the end of a phone call. "Hey, just a small thing - Big Boss noticed you weren't at either of the holiday events. I know they are optional, so you have every right not to come, but I figured if I were in your shoes I'd want a heads up that she does pay attention. I think it might help her impression of you if you were able to attend things like this when they come up. If there's anything I can do to make that easier for you, let me know."